Luke0549 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Who is the resident electrician of the forums? I want a switch put in to the passenger airbag to be able to turn it off. I have a young child and if I ever needed to somewhere in an emergency I could get where I need to go. I'm from Hertfordshire if that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techinstaller Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 as an automotive electronics technician ,i have to say i doubt anyone will be willing to do this for you for liability reasons among other more obvious reasons ,the only time i would entertain this kind of job would be for someone building a track vehicle but mostly that would be a full removal scenario.As they say on dragons den "im out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke0549 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Tbh, after reading more info, you can put a forward facing seat in the front with a working airbag, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 See page 1-13 of your handbook (2006 model - worldwide) about children in front seats and air bags. But as techinstaller says in the UK it seems this would be illegal but your spot of front facing child seat is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 As tech installer says, purely for liability reasons I wouldn't go anywhere near it. Added to that there will always be a possibility of error codes when air bag wiring is "interfered" with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How can there be any liability whatsoever from the sparky's POV? Is it illegal to install a switch to disable an airbag? No. Is the customer aware of what disabling an airbag can mean? Yes. Have they signed the order to proceed? Yes. There you go, no liability at all. It's no different to removing the airbag altogether, which is something many people do in their cars (myself included). Sorry chaps, but there's no legal liability here whatsoever. The sparky will owe the customer a duty of care to ensure that the work is carried out to a high standard and be safe, but as long as that's complete then there's no issues at all and there can be no claim for negligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ^^ how does that fit in with the requirement of OEM items and the MOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It doesn't have to, in any way shape or form. Go to a garage and ask them to fit you a decat, they'll do it. Instant MOT fail. Go to a garage and get them to remove your airbag and disable the warning light, no MOT fail. It's not the person working on the car's responsibility to get it to pass MOT, it's the owner's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 right - its not the act that is the "offense" - its the end result basically same in my business - a builder may carry out unlawful work - but it is the owner we would prosecute (on the whole) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 if you put a key operated switch in (just for arguments sake, I know it would be a toggle one for 98% of people!) it wouldn't be all that different to an oem system they use in a lot of cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How can there be any liability whatsoever from the sparky's POV? Is it illegal to install a switch to disable an airbag? No. Is the customer aware of what disabling an airbag can mean? Yes. Have they signed the order to proceed? Yes. There you go, no liability at all. It's no different to removing the airbag altogether, which is something many people do in their cars (myself included). Sorry chaps, but there's no legal liability here whatsoever. The sparky will owe the customer a duty of care to ensure that the work is carried out to a high standard and be safe, but as long as that's complete then there's no issues at all and there can be no claim for negligence. That might be the case Dan but my insurance policy that covers me to work on motor vehicles prohibits "modification or alteration to the air bag system of any kind" And on that basis I won't, simple, end of. This together with the potential fault codes/lights is just not worth the hassle quite frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How can there be any liability whatsoever from the sparky's POV? Is it illegal to install a switch to disable an airbag? No. Is the customer aware of what disabling an airbag can mean? Yes. Have they signed the order to proceed? Yes. There you go, no liability at all. It's no different to removing the airbag altogether, which is something many people do in their cars (myself included). Sorry chaps, but there's no legal liability here whatsoever. The sparky will owe the customer a duty of care to ensure that the work is carried out to a high standard and be safe, but as long as that's complete then there's no issues at all and there can be no claim for negligence. That might be the case Dan but my insurance policy that covers me to work on motor vehicles prohibits "modification or alteration to the air bag system of any kind" And on that basis I won't, simple, end of. This together with the potential fault codes/lights is just not worth the hassle quite frankly. Just being curious, is that mostly because if you accidentally detonate 7 airbags in a rolls-royce or other such luxury you'd bankrupt the insurance company? Or because of killing someone if you get it wrong type of thing? or a combination of the two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chubby Ninja Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I would just do it myself. There's only 2 wires going to the airbag. Disconnect the battery, cut a wire and put a switch in. If it breaks the circuit the airbag won't fire. I'd put one of the aircraft type switches in with the cover to stop it getting switched accidently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How can there be any liability whatsoever from the sparky's POV? Is it illegal to install a switch to disable an airbag? No. Is the customer aware of what disabling an airbag can mean? Yes. Have they signed the order to proceed? Yes. There you go, no liability at all. It's no different to removing the airbag altogether, which is something many people do in their cars (myself included). Sorry chaps, but there's no legal liability here whatsoever. The sparky will owe the customer a duty of care to ensure that the work is carried out to a high standard and be safe, but as long as that's complete then there's no issues at all and there can be no claim for negligence. That might be the case Dan but my insurance policy that covers me to work on motor vehicles prohibits "modification or alteration to the air bag system of any kind" And on that basis I won't, simple, end of. This together with the potential fault codes/lights is just not worth the hassle quite frankly. Just being curious, is that mostly because if you accidentally detonate 7 airbags in a rolls-royce or other such luxury you'd bankrupt the insurance company? Or because of killing someone if you get it wrong type of thing? or a combination of the two Nail, head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 right - its not the act that is the "offense" - its the end result basically same in my business - a builder may carry out unlawful work - but it is the owner we would prosecute (on the whole) Exactly, it's not illegal to disable an airbag, nor is it illegal to alter a car so it would fail an MOT. However, in your scenario the owner would have a claim against the builder UNLESS it was made clear that the works they were carrying out under direct instruction do not pass current building regs. Can a building company even absolve themselves of that responsibility, as long as the work is not dangerous? I don't know. Graham, if it's because your insurance won't cover it if it goes the way of the pear then that's a different kettle of fish. That's an insurance issue, not a legal one. I maintain though that if the work was done to a high standard that ticks all the boxes of the current regs and everything practicable was done, then there can be no liability. Look at it this way, here's a few scenarios: 1. Switch badly installed by electrician, car sets itself on fire or airbag deploys when it shouldn't = Clear liability with the sparky as the regs were not followed 2. Switch installed correctly, but not in correct off position when rear-facing child seat used, car has an accident and kid is killed = No liability, work was done correctly and it was the user that got it wrong That's how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 right - its not the act that is the "offense" - its the end result basically same in my business - a builder may carry out unlawful work - but it is the owner we would prosecute (on the whole) Exactly, it's not illegal to disable an airbag, nor is it illegal to alter a car so it would fail an MOT. However, in your scenario the owner would have a claim against the builder UNLESS it was made clear that the works they were carrying out under direct instruction do not pass current building regs. Can a building company even absolve themselves of that responsibility, as long as the work is not dangerous? I don't know. Graham, if it's because your insurance won't cover it if it goes the way of the pear then that's a different kettle of fish. That's an insurance issue, not a legal one. I maintain though that if the work was done to a high standard that ticks all the boxes of the current regs and everything practicable was done, then there can be no liability. Look at it this way, here's a few scenarios: 1. Switch badly installed by electrician, car sets itself on fire or airbag deploys when it shouldn't = Clear liability with the sparky as the regs were not followed 2. Switch installed correctly, but not in correct off position when rear-facing child seat used, car has an accident and kid is killed = No liability, work was done correctly and it was the user that got it wrong That's how I see it. I think that's what I said earlier:- "That might be the case Dan" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 You did, I'm blind *gets back off box* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke0549 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, I see it as someone being asked to fit something like a decat. And yeah, I would have modified it to fit a turn key. She will be in a forward facing seat soon. So it will be more hassle than it's worth. Cheers for the input guys thouhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 You did, I'm blind *gets back off box* no probs Dan, we like you on your box!! The points you made are more than fair. Having never been asked to do this (all my customers are fleet operators) I would also hazard a guess that the switch would have to incorporate an on/off warning light too. Sent from my Zed using Nangkang tyres front, RE040's rear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techinstaller Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Im still with GLRNET on this one i do accept DAN'S very valid point of view but probably on the balance of what i could or would charge for such a job why would i wish to risk a liability issue or insurance problem ,with the consequential damage to business and reputation (im also a fleet installer ) one lost client could mean a lot of lost work. Its always the grey area that poses the problems ,say the vehicle is stacked and the bags fail to deploy police / insurance investigation shows tampering with the air bag srs etc try proving later whether a switch was on or off as it can be changed at any time and prove 100% that the failure to deploy was not related to the mod altering resistance or some such twaddle ,it would not surprise me to find they put it down to the job your charged an hours labour for ,which then burns many unpaid hours in hassle lol . I do actually see and understand Dan's point and think he would be correct i just wouldn't take the money on that one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veilside z Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Easy equation ... use, buy or borrow another motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke0549 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Ahah I have another motor, It was just in case of emergency and I had no other transport etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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