Stutopia Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 waits for the single horsepower owners to throw in their two-pennies worth When a mummy horse and a daddy horse love each other very much, they could make a free baby horse. ICE can't do that, therefore is worse and there is no use case which can be put forward that disproves that ICE is a step forward from horses. Should we even have moved from ox power to horses at all Who ever fancies a bowl of horsetail soup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Who ever fancies a bowl of horsetail soup... Can I interest sir in Tesco's new ICE burger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 That's a tenuous analogy, but in essence that's exactly what I'm saying. I haven't ridden for years, but even I can see why the horsey people enjoy hacking across the countryside rather than bimbling around in a car or on a bike.It's the level of involvement, I think, and it's also why having a manual 'box is usually so much more exciting than having a car with paddles. I don't agree, having to change gear with a stick may be more involving but a paddle can do the job far quicker Surely it was more involving when you used to have to use a crank to start your car but things move on and get better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Us petrol dinosaurs are no different to the reaction of many of the drivers/owners of horse-drawn carriages, once the 'carriages' offered more horsepower than the four-legged variety. But the good news is they are still around so there is hope for us who like the noise and gears etc and who might still be around when EV is the norm...........neigh? Exactly! If EV cars become better, cheaper etc then hoards will buy them leaving all the petrol for those that still want it... might become an expensive hobby being a petrol head though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I don't agree, having to change gear with a stick may be more involving but a paddle can do the job far quicker You've missed the point entirely. I don't want quicker, I want involving. As I've said elsewhere, I'd rather go slower but have more fun doing it. Some technology is a step forward, some takes the fun away from the driver. That might be ABS which has proved itself as being a great help, TCS which is good if optional, or EVs which take away all the passion of an ICE. The 911 was great with the paddles, but it held my attention mostly because of the drivetrain layout. Were I buying again, I'd have a manual one every single time and I'd be much happier too. That's not to say that some cars don't suit paddles very well (a manual Rolls or a FFRR would be awful!), but 99% of fun cars are always better with a stick. But now we're on a whole different kettle of fish I should probably caveat that I have nothing against EVs as shopping trolley city cars, as they're brilliant for that. Every comment I make is referring specifically to fun cars, unless I say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I don't agree, having to change gear with a stick may be more involving but a paddle can do the job far quicker You've missed the point entirely. I don't want quicker, I want involving. As I've said elsewhere, I'd rather go slower but have more fun doing it. Some technology is a step forward, some takes the fun away from the driver. That might be ABS which has proved itself as being a great help, TCS which is good if optional, or EVs which take away all the passion of an ICE. The 911 was great with the paddles, but it held my attention mostly because of the drivetrain layout. Were I buying again, I'd have a manual one every single time and I'd be much happier too. That's not to say that some cars don't suit paddles very well (a manual Rolls or a FFRR would be awful!), but 99% of fun cars are always better with a stick. But now we're on a whole different kettle of fish I should probably caveat that I have nothing against EVs as shopping trolley city cars, as they're brilliant for that. Every comment I make is referring specifically to fun cars, unless I say otherwise. Not at all, I have had manual and now paddles and I prefer paddles, mainly as so can keep both hands on the wheel and concentrate on the road, but I can understand people being anti auto but if it's a good box it is quicker to change which gives you more speed in and out of corners, what's more involving than that I think a lot of people (not you) just say they prefer manual as it's the manly petrol head thing to say, but if they actually drove a relatively new auto with a decent box they would probably prefer it... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Oh and definitely agree about EV city cars, if I lived more centrally in London I would get one, you can't enjoy driving in London even if you are in a Ferrari! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I agree, some do say it just because. I drove a proper DCT, and it's great at going quickly but it removes the involvement. I used to think it was 'better' too because it was quicker, then I went back to a good manual and realised I was wrong. You lose more than you gain, IMHO. I think a good auto can be great in the right car. As much as I love the 458, it would be phenomenal with a true Ferrari H-box. Slower yes, but utterly perfect otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'd like to see EVs pushed as mass transport, really. Imagine EVs as a double decker bus, or inner city taxis. That's where the tech would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'd like to see EVs pushed as mass transport, really. Imagine EVs as a double decker bus, or inner city taxis. That's where the tech would be perfect. Better still all HGVs go electric, that and buses would probably half all emissions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'd like to see EVs pushed as mass transport, really. Imagine EVs as a double decker bus, or inner city taxis. That's where the tech would be perfect. Yes sir your taxi will be with you in three hours, we've just plugged it in... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'd like to see EVs pushed as mass transport, really. Imagine EVs as a double decker bus, or inner city taxis. That's where the tech would be perfect. Pretty soon you wouldn't have a choice, with the introduction of a 'ultra low emission zone' in inner London your need a car rated at <50 Co2 to get in. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/london-s-first-all-electric-bus-route-to-be-operated-by-arriva https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/new-vision-for-cleaner-greener-taxi-and-private-hire-services-in-the-capital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 he Mayor of London confirmed the ULEZ would be introduced on 26 March 2015. It will require: Cars and small vans - Euro 6 for diesel engines (registered from 1 September 2015 so 5 years old or less in 2020) and Euro 4 for petrol engines (registered from 1 January 2006 so 14 years old or less in 2020). Non-compliant vehicles could still drive in the zone but they will be required to pay a daily charge of £12.50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Pretty soon you wouldn't have a choice, with the introduction of a 'ultra low emission zone' in inner London your need a car rated at <50 Co2 to get in. Yep, snipers dotted around the rooftops of London ready to take out anyone daring to drive an actual car into the exclusion zone by way of enforcing this.... Or, you know, just the option (or choice, if you will) to pay not to comply with the emissions "requirement" instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 I take it that's on top the congestion charge...So £24/day to drive into inner London!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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