Stop press (Top Gear):

[spursmaddave]

Will it be great? Will it be crap? Who knows, I will certainly give it a go and see

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jetpilot]

So long as CE sheds the crowd of outraged, oppressed, "we have a hell of a time of it nowadays", "JC tells it like it is" (did he? ever? once?), "I can't say whatever I want anymore, what with the gays and the women and the asylum seekers", it'll be a giant leap forward for Top Gear. If they lose these viewers, great, a herd needs a cull every now and again. The more dinosaurs who get stuck in the tar and left behind for extinction the better the pool who aren't allergic to change will be.

 

Good luck to Evans, hopefully his arrival will mean there's one fewer (disproportionately loud) mouthpiece, faux-bleating on about the plight of the Middle Englander who's got it so damn tough now, as every other socio cultural demographic continues the glacial plod forward to redress years of imbalance.

 

Its not about who watches, its about how many people watch, its a numbers game, plain and simple, if you think TG will be better off because it attracts a better, but lesser audience your very much mistaken, its a business which needs revenue, will you still think its "great" if they loose those viewers and they are not replaced on mass and the show is canned?

 

As said elsewhere i think xfactor, celebrity etc are all a load of dross, but whilst ever they get ratings from whatever demographic they will be on our screen, i am not going to whinge about the credentials of the audience and the show isnt what "I" want, i just wont watch and find something else to enjoy.

 

I have seen, heard and read enough about CE since he came onto out screens many years ago to be able say, i have zero interest in him, i havent been critical, i havent really cast judgement apart from an "opinion" on his petrolhead status, just he isnt my cup of tea. You seem a sensible chap with your posts, but really, you feel you have right to comment on someone you know no better than me because you have read a book about what he wants you to know about him? Sorry, that doesnt cut the mustard coming from you

 

he presents a feature but takes no part in it because he isnt really interested in driving or can drive with any enthusiasm?

 

That looks like another opinion to me, but whatever.

And I havent "just read a book", Ive read both autobiographies, watched BB every morning for however many years, loved TFI and watched it every week and saw most of Toothbrush as well. I now listen to the guy every morning on Radio 2 as well, and I think its a bit of a pisstake how many people are saying "hes crap, TG will be crap, I dont like him" without really having seen, read or listened to anything the guy has done. Maybe thats not your opinion exactly but theres plenty of people who seem to be writing the guy off without actually having seen any of his previous TV.

 

So you dont want to quote the part where i said i think he is a great presenter? Whats the big problem with me saying he is not my cup of tea, i have no idea why thats such a big deal for you, as you say above, i havent condemned the show to failure like others, jeez you want to have a read of the pistonhead thread.

 

I liked the format of TG, if there are no road trips etc with the main presenter taking part, i think that will be a shame, take away my views on his interest in driving or any enthusiasm for driving, with his schedule its not even going to be possible.

 

So for those who are welcoming a change and CE + co presenters, what do you hope the show to evolve to and do you think its a recipe for a worldwide audience, because thats all it really comes down to, the TG brand surviving or a car show that CE is at the helm of?

[coldel]

Again its conjecture that CE will just sit in the studio and not do drive outs, I appreciate you would not like to see him not driving, but you are assuming that will be the case, we will have to wait and see what happens with his other commitments which he hasn't yet said he will definitely carry on with i.e. radio.

 

Its a good question though, what do we want it to be? CE seems to have indicated he will stay true to the ethos of the show and evolve rather than make any drastic changes - for me I would be looking at the weaker areas (what do you fast forward through when watching it on playback/netflix?) and then seeing what you could fit in there that is different but dovetails with the stronger areas that remain.

 

Things like the news are pointless in my opinion, often not very funny and take up a lot of time and to report 'news' which by the time it hits our screens has been debated on here and by various online news sites well before TG hits our screens. I also felt that the car reviews by May and Hammond when doing them solo were really poor, they had little screen presence and their voices just carried no weight. I would certainly like this area improved as I felt as a threesome they were great, but May and Hammond going solo were pretty awful. I also want something more than 'who can get there fastest me in my car or you two on the train' it was really getting tired (although having not watching the last series they may have evolved this).

 

Its always going to be a difficult one, the first series sans the terrible threesome, so expect some backlash from the die hards, the people that would defend Clarkson punching staff in the face etc who even if they watched an amazing next series would moan anyway. We will see lapsed viewers coming back to see what the new show might bring. Then there is the big majority in the middle who need to get that fix of 'car entertainment' so lets see - the real test will be to see after three years where TG sits.

[Jetpilot]

Agreed its conjecture, but at this present time, his schedule is pretty full and personally i cant see him jacking everything else in, just for TG, unless they have paid him a huge huge salary.

 

Take away news, take away who can get there fastest, take away the specials, i,e three guys in a chosen car tour (america, italy, east europe etc) and i mean this as no criticism (as this is what the new team are up against) and how do you intend to fill an hour, let alone 6 - 8 shows? All you have done is take away, what would you like to see, what is going to replace that?

Edited June 18, 2015 by Jetpilot

[Ekona]

I dunno, maybe more on the actual cars themselves? Just a thought.

[coldel]

I didnt say take away the specials? Not sure where you got that from. They tend to turn out a few of these train races each series and its just my opinion but I tend to switch off as its all too predictable.

 

My point was to remove the dead wood - as I say the bits that feel like they have run their course and replace with something else - what could that be? Well thats the trick and I would suspect it will be a mix of ideas Clarkson had before he left that probably havent had the chance to implement, ideas CE will bring and also with new staff behind the scenes some other ideas. What are they, well if I could answer that right now I wouldn't be sat here at my desk I would be starting up my own TV show...

 

...at the end of the day, you only have to look at shows like Dr Who, Match of the Day etc which over the years cut out the crap parts that were tired and worn and beefed up with something new and exciting. TG in its current format was a revamp of a revamp of a revamp, so I find it quite bizarre that current TG viewers seem to think doing a revamp now is a bad thing.

Edited June 18, 2015 by coldel

[Jetpilot]

I dunno, maybe more on the actual cars themselves? Just a thought.

 

This is all that the anti TG crew say, who honestly wants to watch 60 mins on cars with a star and a bit of stig thrown in, that will not be the worldwide success TG was and if people want a car show, why is 5th gear so crap, just the presenters? They would have died for TG's ratings.

 

I didnt say take away the specials? Not sure where you got that from. They tend to turn out a few of these train races each series and its just my opinion but I tend to switch off as its all too predictable.

 

My point was to remove the dead wood - as I say the bits that feel like they have run their course and replace with something else - what could that be? Well thats the trick and I would suspect it will be a mix of ideas Clarkson had before he left that probably havent had the chance to implement, ideas CE will bring and also with new staff behind the scenes some other ideas. What are they, well if I could answer that right now I wouldn't be sat here at my desk I would be starting up my own TV show...

 

...at the end of the day, you only have to look at shows like Dr Who, Match of the Day etc which over the years cut out the crap parts that were tired and worn and beefed up with something new and exciting. TG in its current format was a revamp of a revamp of a revamp, so I find it quite bizarre that current TG viewers seem to think doing a revamp now is a bad thing.

 

So who is going to drive in these specials? and even then your saying you switch off from TG specials during a show

 

If your going to have an opinion that TG needs a revamp, cut out the deadwood etc, for you to want to watch, you have to have an opinion of what you want like to see, surely? You the alienated ex TG audience are the ones they want back, if you dont know what you want to watch, how are they going to!

[Ekona]

This is all that the anti TG crew say, who honestly wants to watch 60 mins on cars with a star and a bit of stig thrown in?

Quite right. I don't want the star either, as I usually skip that bit.

 

I remember watching stuff like when they got their Mum's in to review three hatchbacks, that was brilliant. Or when they first started doing the Which Is Fastest bits, they were new and different. I also remember when TG jumped the shark, which was when the review of the 997TT, the latest iteration of one of the most important sports car brands ever, was relegated to 5mins of night driving. That did it for me. The reviews of things like the CGT/Enzo/SLR were masterpieces in how to review properly, and I can remember them as if they were yesterday.

 

I'm not in TV producing or writing, so I have no idea what new things should replace the chaff, but I'm damn sure we've not run out of stuff yet. What about motorsport? Get the presenters to race in stuff like the Drift championships, or a rally stage like Catchpole did, or any of the hundreds of other disciplines. That'd be ace, and would certainly fill a gap.

[coldel]

I keep repeating JP I am not against specials not sure why you keep saying that? I cited an example that I am bored of the special with a 'car racing public transport' idea which got trotted out series after series, I want to see something else - I want to be entertained by a special that is innovative, new and exciting. It really felt like the old presenters were never going to deliver that so I lapsed out the programme.

 

There is tonnes of 'motoring' material out there untapped - is it up to me to say what I want to see, not really, because then it would be predictable for me - I want to be entertained, surprised, delighted and that wont be material I could possibly think up. I was not getting that in the old format as it was predictable and eventually got dull and I had better things to do for an hour. I guess some people like to watch the same format over and over but personally I don't. But that's just my opinion.

[Jetpilot]

Your f'ed then as apparently CE has said siarpc is definitely staying

 

You should have switched on to the last few series, the TG boys did enter a rallycross comp and imho did some great car features recently, 918, LaFerrari, P1 etc The last two series had picked up a little from the general twatting about, which agreed was tiresome (too much of it), perhaps if you had watched it, you might have enjoyed it again.

[coldel]

You could be right, but it was too late, I had gotten into the habit of not bothering to switch it on and only the change of presenter has made me consider otherwise. I guess I wanted to see car based entertainment and when they spent over half of a show doing stuff like getting army equipment to smash up a building it really was getting to the point where it felt like they couldn't take the show any further forwards, lost the point of the show and my loyalty started to wane.

[StevoD]

918 review from hammond was awesome

[Ekona]

I saw the hypercar bits on YT, they weren't a patch on what had come before and certainly had nothing on what CH did with just him, one camera and a lot of enthusiasm.

 

I did see the first episode of the last series as wasn't Webber on it? Or whatever series that was, I saw that whole episode and was massively disappointed still. You're right though, everyone should watch it with an open mind and prepare to have really strong feelings about it one way or another

[StevoD]

i still struggle to see how you find CH entertaining Dan

 

yes he is knows his poop

Yes he can Drive

Yes he may be able to deliver the info well

 

But entertaining he is not He has no flair and when there is it feels extremely forced, almost sarcastic

 

Also just watched the CH 918 video not even close on production skill as the top gear version vast amounts of the screen time is filled up with Lens flare/Sun in the window

 

 

I think

 

if you want top gear to be a documentary CE and CH will be your men for the job lots of facts and lap times and proving facts etc

i don't think especially without Andy Wilman it will be as entertaining or as much a visual or aural experience as it once was

[Ekona]

CH was awful on the early videos. He was stiff, dull, useless. Couldn't agree with you more.

 

However...

 

He is so much better now. Watch his conversation with Andreas Preuninger chatting about the GT4, or with Chris Goodwin over the P1: The passion and intelligence there is eminently likeable. Watch the 458 vid round Combe, or the P1 vid round Bahrain. I really don't see how that looks forced, certainly not when compared with the forced scripted humour in the TG bits.

 

No, he's not perfect and sometimes the insistence of the slomo cornering shots bores me to tears, but no more so than the TG reliance on acute cuts with juddering pans.

[coldel]

You are assuming what you find entertaining is what everyone else should find entertaining though...you might bellow and laugh out loud and feel great about watching three guys do something daft whilst someone else might find it just stupid and a waste of time. I think what Dan means is that the reviews of cars on TG tend to be silly camera angles, prewritten funny lines and analogies and very little detail on the car itself - TG focus on making it a visual spectacle and some people are ok with not actually learning anything of any detail about the car and just enjoy the videography. I don't think Dan means to turn TG into a 60 minute documentary but to improve the reviews...although correct me if I am wrong.

[Ekona]

No, you're right. I don't want a documentary, I want TG exactly like it was 10 years ago. It was perfect then.

[StevoD]

You are assuming what you find entertaining is what everyone else should find entertaining though...you might bellow and laugh out loud and feel great about watching three guys do something daft whilst someone else might find it just stupid and a waste of time. I think what Dan means is that the reviews of cars on TG tend to be silly camera angles, prewritten funny lines and analogies and very little detail on the car itself - TG focus on making it a visual spectacle and some people are ok with not actually learning anything of any detail about the car and just enjoy the videography. I don't think Dan means to turn TG into a 60 minute documentary but to improve the reviews...although correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thats goes against everyone you, Me dan, Graham, docrwa everyone?

 

like someone said you cant argue that the majority of people paying the license fee prefer TGs Visual Spectacle approach over say Fifth gear or CH documentary/informative style approach, I cant see the BBC wanting to change a recipe that works so well, I mean this is off topic now as we are talking about TG as a whole not CE, not sure how you can call topgears Camera angles as silly i really cant, but i guess like the what you find entertainment its subjective.

[Ekona]

you cant argue that the majority of people paying the license fee prefer TGs Visual Spectacle approach over say Fifth gear or CH documentary/informative style approach

This is very true. It also means they're all idiots.

 

 

What I'm getting it is that just because something is popular, does not mean that it is good.

[StevoD]

No, you're right. I don't want a documentary, I want TG exactly like it was 10 years ago. It was perfect then.

 

your (collective of people who hate new top gear) are at a catch 22, you say you want it like it was but want new exciting content every week watching a hyper car drive around the same track and setting a lap time will become very boring very quick and wont be new as you will know its happening, then it will progress with races across country's then it will be something else then 10 years when everything is not new anymore we end up back here with everyone going its @*!# now

 

Its like woman who get with a bloke then say grow a beard do this do that 10 year latter ending their going your not the man i fell in love with anymore im leaving, no @*!# He/TG is a product of your desire for something new, something different

Edited June 18, 2015 by StevoD

[StevoD]

you cant argue that the majority of people paying the license fee prefer TGs Visual Spectacle approach over say Fifth gear or CH documentary/informative style approach

This is very true. It also means they're all idiots.

 

 

What I'm getting it is that just because something is popular, does not mean that it is good.

 

oh i agree i mean BMW and Porsches for instant

 

 

But because your in the minority you cant expect it to be changed specially for you at this risk of losing its multi million following,

 

its like all the people who say FNF is @*!# now as it has high end car in it, well if it stayed as a few blokes driving around in honda civic the franchise would have ended very quickly, universal wont change the formula that's bringing them a mint to make some lads happy who wants it like the first film

Edited June 18, 2015 by StevoD

[Ekona]

Oh absolutely, I don't expect it to be markedly different. What I'm hoping for is that it will be sufficiently different that it offers me a reason to watch again. If it's not, then as much as I like CE, I won't be watching it.

[Stutopia]

So long as CE sheds the crowd of outraged, oppressed, "we have a hell of a time of it nowadays", "JC tells it like it is" (did he? ever? once?), "I can't say whatever I want anymore, what with the gays and the women and the asylum seekers", it'll be a giant leap forward for Top Gear. If they lose these viewers, great, a herd needs a cull every now and again. The more dinosaurs who get stuck in the tar and left behind for extinction the better the pool who aren't allergic to change will be.

 

Good luck to Evans, hopefully his arrival will mean there's one fewer (disproportionately loud) mouthpiece, faux-bleating on about the plight of the Middle Englander who's got it so damn tough now, as every other socio cultural demographic continues the glacial plod forward to redress years of imbalance.

 

Its not about who watches, its about how many people watch, its a numbers game, plain and simple, if you think TG will be better off because it attracts a better, but lesser audience your very much mistaken, its a business which needs revenue, will you still think its "great" if they loose those viewers and they are not replaced on mass and the show is canned?

 

As said elsewhere i think xfactor, celebrity etc are all a load of dross, but whilst ever they get ratings from whatever demographic they will be on our screen, i am not going to whinge about the credentials of the audience and the show isnt what "I" want, i just wont watch and find something else to enjoy.

 

The BBC's remit is not to provide broadcasting where the be all and end all is viewing figures. Commercial broadcasters do that, in effect to sell advertising space. The global arm is a commercial piece, whose operations shouldn't supersede its luxurious position of having a legally protected income stream. They say themselves that

 

"Our mission - To enrich people's lives with programmes and services that inform, educate and entertain.

 

Our vision - To be the most creative organisation in the world."

 

There's nothing in there about maximising shareholder earnings or capturing % of viewing public. If the licence fee is scrapped and the BBC has to operate without state sponsorship, then it will be welcome to chase viewers, but until then it is not Sky or ITV and required to pander to the people who watch the most TV and chase advertisers.

[StevoD]

So long as CE sheds the crowd of outraged, oppressed, "we have a hell of a time of it nowadays", "JC tells it like it is" (did he? ever? once?), "I can't say whatever I want anymore, what with the gays and the women and the asylum seekers", it'll be a giant leap forward for Top Gear. If they lose these viewers, great, a herd needs a cull every now and again. The more dinosaurs who get stuck in the tar and left behind for extinction the better the pool who aren't allergic to change will be.

 

Good luck to Evans, hopefully his arrival will mean there's one fewer (disproportionately loud) mouthpiece, faux-bleating on about the plight of the Middle Englander who's got it so damn tough now, as every other socio cultural demographic continues the glacial plod forward to redress years of imbalance.

 

Its not about who watches, its about how many people watch, its a numbers game, plain and simple, if you think TG will be better off because it attracts a better, but lesser audience your very much mistaken, its a business which needs revenue, will you still think its "great" if they loose those viewers and they are not replaced on mass and the show is canned?

 

As said elsewhere i think xfactor, celebrity etc are all a load of dross, but whilst ever they get ratings from whatever demographic they will be on our screen, i am not going to whinge about the credentials of the audience and the show isnt what "I" want, i just wont watch and find something else to enjoy.

 

The BBC's remit is not to provide broadcasting where the be all and end all is viewing figures. Commercial broadcasters do that, in effect to sell advertising space. The global arm is a commercial piece, whose operations shouldn't supersede its luxurious position of having a legally protected income stream. They say themselves that

 

"Our mission - To enrich people's lives with programmes and services that inform, educate and entertain.

 

Our vision - To be the most creative organisation in the world."

 

There's nothing in there about maximising shareholder earnings or capturing % of viewing public. If the licence fee is scrapped and the BBC has to operate without state sponsorship, then it will be welcome to chase viewers, but until then it is not Sky or ITV and required to pander to the people who watch the most TV and chase advertisers.

 

so your saying the BBC isnt a business out to make money

[Ekona]

Correct. It's not.