AliveBoy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Jetpilot, just as not all old men wear wax jackets, smoke a pipe and stink of p1ss, not all homosexual people are "overbearing in their mannerisms". It's not the first time you've made homophobic statements on here and you can't say you aren't homophobic and then follow it up with a comment which proves you are. It's like when people say "I'm not racist but..." You feel uncomfortable around gays. Why's that? Do you think so much of yourself that you're concerned that they're all going to make a pass at you and fall head over heals in love with you? Maybe you're actually worried that you'll like it? or disappointed that they didn't? Do you get concerned if you walk into a bar with lots of women? When you go to America, are you worried every time you see a white guy near a school or cinema? Because, y'know, statistically it's most likely to be a white guy to shoot up a load of kids because his mummy didn't love him enough. Edited May 7, 2015 by AliveBoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Sadly I am not eloquent enough to explain It then, or you just see It differently. I was just trying to perhaps offer a view from how she feels. I dont feel uncomfortable around negros, but do gays, just suggesting it doesnt automatically make you predujice to not feel comfortable around certain groups, but as Ekona mentions, they are both sensitive subjects, i have been called to rights before on here for comments made about Louis Spence. Would you feel comfortable If you wandered Into a pikey campsite for example? It's a bit of a misleading question asking if I would be comfortable walking into a pack of people that I don't know with a reputation that precedes them It's very irrational to be uncomfortable around gay people unless of course there is something you are worried about having to admit to yourself. Just maybe that is how that women felt about negros, so the question is far from misleading, she doesnt know them either, its not as cut and dried as you make it, hence the racial tension in this country, as per the sad incidents that happen to gangzoom. Its not an irrational feeling at all, i find them overbearing and their mannerisms (not all of course) are nothing i am at familiar with, hence why i feel uncomfortable. What? So you're not homophobic, you're just stereotyping? I'm not even sure I can discuss this with you but saying: i find them overbearing and their mannerisms (not all of course) You're painting them with a brush in one hand and retracting that statement with another, you need to decide where you stand. I find a few people who aren't gay, overbearing and irritating, I don't suddenly become intolerant of everyone that shares the same sexual orientation as them. My head hurts Edited May 7, 2015 by mouthwash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJRamze Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 UKIP are a huge racist joke. The fact anyone would vote for them really changes my opinion on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 UKIP are a huge racist joke. The fact anyone would vote for them really changes my opinion on them. Aren't there many black/asian members, how are they racist? I'm not having a moan here i genuinely take no notice of any of this election stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Just had the green party DRIVE in circles round Guildford with loads of PAPER taped to a car using a loud hailer trying to drum up votes. I wouldn't exactly say that's being green That lot are a bunch of f-wits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 UKIP are a huge racist joke. The fact anyone would vote for them really changes my opinion on them. Aren't there many black/asian members, how are they racist? I'm not having a moan here i genuinely take no notice of any of this election stuff. My Indian Landlord seems to be a local member campaigning for UKIP - She says as an immigrant she knows what's right and wrong, she worked hard to get where she is, and hates that there are immigrants leaching/using this country and not giving anything back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 UKIP are a huge racist joke. The fact anyone would vote for them really changes my opinion on them. Proof? Not proof that some of their members say silly things, nor that some of their members hold racist views (we've proven that point already), but what makes you think that the ethos of the party is racist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Just maybe that is how that women felt about negros, so the question is far from misleading, she doesnt know them either, its not as cut and dried as you make it, hence the racial tension in this country, as per the sad incidents that happen to gangzoom. Its not an irrational feeling at all, i find them overbearing and their mannerisms (not all of course) are nothing i am at familiar with, hence why i feel uncomfortable. What? So you're not homophobic, you're just stereotyping? I'm not even sure I can discuss this with you but saying: i find them overbearing and their mannerisms (not all of course) You're painting them with a brush in one hand and retracting that statement with another, you need to decide where you stand. I find a few people who aren't gay, overbearing and irritating, I don't suddenly become intolerant of everyone that shares the same sexual orientation as them. My head hurts I thought I'd follow on from this and say, I think it's very normal to feel uncomfortable around anything that you're not used to... But saying you're (not you) uncomfortable talking to a black person because they're black? Pull the other one, if you were blind you wouldn't care if they were black, gay, orange, Grundy, fat, disabled, tall, skinny, Grundy, Jewish etc. Some people need to close their eyes and open their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Jetpilot, just as not all old men wear wax jackets, smoke a pipe and stink of p1ss, not all homosexual people are "overbearing in their mannerisms". It's not the first time you've made homophobic statements on here and you can't say you aren't homophobic and then follow it up with a comment which proves you are. It's like when people say "I'm not racist but..." You feel uncomfortable around gays. Why's that? Do you think so much of yourself that you're concerned that they're all going to make a pass at you and fall head over heals in love with you? Maybe you're actually worried that you'll like it? or disappointed that they didn't? Do you get concerned if you walk into a bar with lots of women? When you go to America, are you worried every time you see a white guy near a school or cinema? Because, y'know, statistically it's most likely to be a white guy to shoot up a load of kids because his mummy didn't love him enough. Just because this was being edited on the last page and I didn't see it, feel it needs to be quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJRamze Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Their 'Ethos' or 'Agenda' doesn't need to be racist if they are founded on a number of racist members then their opinions, agendas and actions are biased against that Don't get me wrong, I don't trust a single politician, but I especially can't stand with notorious racists and a party thats biased in that way. As a staunch Anti-Racist I can't imagine Voting UKIP based on its founders and its history. I'm currently in work so I dont really have time to list all of the many reasons And I despise that Nigel pretends to be Everymans Working man when he literally couldn't be further from it.(Although I despise when all politicians pull this nonsense) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/29/10-good-reasons-not-vote-ukip-nigel-farage-europe http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence Those are two links from a quick google but I did a substancial amount of reading into UKIP, its basically, Lets choose things that annoy people. Lets tell them we are going to fix them. Can we fix them? No, but most people wont look further than the promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Their 'Ethos' or 'Agenda' doesn't need to be racist if they are founded on a number of racist members then their opinions, agendas and actions are biased against that Don't get me wrong, I don't trust a single politician, but I especially can't stand with notorious racists and a party thats biased in that way. As a staunch Anti-Racist I can't imagine Voting UKIP based on its founders and its history. I'm currently in work so I dont really have time to list all of the many reasons And I despise that Nigel pretends to be Everymans Working man when he literally couldn't be further from it.(Although I despise when all politicians pull this nonsense) http://www.theguardi...l-farage-europe http://www.newstates...s-look-evidence Those are two links from a quick google but I did a substancial amount of reading into UKIP, its basically, Lets choose things that annoy people. Lets tell them we are going to fix them. Can we fix them? No, but most people wont look further than the promises. But that's like saying - If a policeman is racist, the whole force is racist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Newspapers are not a good source of non biased information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Newspapers are not a good source of non biased information Few places are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Newspapers are not a good source of non biased information Few places are. I'm pretty non biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Newspapers are not a good source of non biased information Few places are. I'm pretty non biased. uninformed is not the same as unbiased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Newspapers are not a good source of non biased information Few places are. I'm pretty non biased. So you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 What's currently doing my head in is the Labour party saying that non doms don't pay taxes, which is a blatant lie and idiots are believing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Easy target, sadly. I particularly like how they want to raise the top level of income tax for high earners, despite the fact that the reason the Coalition dropped it was because it was actually bringing in less tax due to the wealthy going abroad instead. It's a silly idea, but it's very hard to argue against it without sounding like a snob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJRamze Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Their 'Ethos' or 'Agenda' doesn't need to be racist if they are founded on a number of racist members then their opinions, agendas and actions are biased against that Don't get me wrong, I don't trust a single politician, but I especially can't stand with notorious racists and a party thats biased in that way. As a staunch Anti-Racist I can't imagine Voting UKIP based on its founders and its history. I'm currently in work so I dont really have time to list all of the many reasons And I despise that Nigel pretends to be Everymans Working man when he literally couldn't be further from it.(Although I despise when all politicians pull this nonsense) http://www.theguardi...l-farage-europe http://www.newstates...s-look-evidence Those are two links from a quick google but I did a substancial amount of reading into UKIP, its basically, Lets choose things that annoy people. Lets tell them we are going to fix them. Can we fix them? No, but most people wont look further than the promises. But that's like saying - If a policeman is racist, the whole force is racist? No it really isnt, If you want to use the police as an example its like saying the leaders of the force are racist and they make the decisions, set the rules and budgets, but not all members are racist however there is an inherent racism that runs rife through the force because of it and the ones that are not racist they just like some of the ideas but they are unknowingly at the behest of the leaders. Also... The opinons you have of the newspaper wont change the facts within them. They do have ties with right wing racists, its very well known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 It's not very well known though, is it? Else you'd have been able to come up with much more evidence. Claiming that UKIP are racist and everyone who votes for them is a racist is the quickest way to ensuring they get more popular. Some of their proper policies are duff, and only by talking about them can that be proven: If you bury your head in the sand and claim they're all racists then you do the opposite. Are the Tories all paedophiles then because they covered up the scandal back in the day? Lead from the top, and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJRamze Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Well.. It is very well known, because its on the guardian. If it wasn't very well known it would be on a few conspiracy websites. Its one google search away of why not to vote UKIP So... it is, to say that it isn't well known implies that you've not researched your parties all. I dont think that all of UKIP are Racist, Or all people that Support UKIP are Racist (I never said that, Your putting words in my mouth) However I did say that someone that votes UKIP changes my opinion on them and it does Most of people who Vote UKIP either Like the ideas and ignore its racist past Like the ideas and are racist Don't know who to vote for but heard that they are pretty good! Are all the Tories paedophiles? No Is everyone that supports them fiddling kids? No Do they have a history of it? Yes Would I vote for them? Not if they were the last kiddy fiddling hope on the planet. Edited May 7, 2015 by CJRamze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Fair enough. Like you say, what people say can really change your opinion of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Easy target, sadly. I particularly like how they want to raise the top level of income tax for high earners, despite the fact that the reason the Coalition dropped it was because it was actually bringing in less tax due to the wealthy going abroad instead. It's a silly idea, but it's very hard to argue against it without sounding like a snob. Non doms pay loads of tax, they pay uk tax on all uk source income and on any income they bring into the uk. Most non doms also pay tax in other countries which we'd then take a tax credit for anyway, meaning that they couldn't be charged more uk tax on top as tax treaties prevent double taxation. A lot of people pay £30,000, £50,000 or £90,000 depending on how long they've been here to keep that non dom status. Most of the non doms currently claiming it are people like visiting teachers who claim their overseas income is less than £2,000 which changes nothing for the UK as they'd be able to cancel it out with tax credits. It's a stupid thing to get rid of as it brings SO much money into the UK. The people they're trying to catch by getting rid of it are so rich that they'll just leave, meaning that the UK will miss out on an absolute heap of cash, the top few thousand non doms currently contribute 4% of UK tax revenues, all of that will vanish over night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Out of curiosity, I just tried googling the following: Why not to vote... UKIP Conservative Labour Lib Dem The results? In order: 10.5M 135M 137M 11.2M So working on that basis, there's fewer reasons NOT to vote for UKIP than any of the other parties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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