REMAPPING

[coldel]

Hi Octet, at the current exchange rate the license cost is $300USD which works out at just a shade under £240, usually this will be rounded up to £250 to cover admin and hope the exchange rate doesn't cause them to need to raise the prices.

 

10-20bhp

 

This. Its not a lot, you get a 'feeling' that the car is quicker and more responsive but hey placebo and all that.

 

 

It's not really a placebo effect when you compare the two graphs, what you'll find that although you gain 10-20bhp peak figures at the top end the gains in the mid range and low down is what makes it feel quicker and more responsive.

 

I tend to ignore peak figures and to be honest I am not sure why tuners seem to have them printed out on dynos and make a point of highlighting them (well I do, its a great way to justify the outlay) but peak gains on their own mean very little - you wont be driving with 15-20 bhp gain at all times, thats what I mean by the placebo effect - people see their one max gain figure and 'believe' they have that on tap which they dont. The more usefulinformation is average gain over the whole graph (why is this never shown if you have all the points on the chart its an easy calculation) was more like 5bhp (well it was on mine anyway) - so yes you get 15bhp say at 5800rpm but how often do you spend time driving in that range? Gains around the 2000-3000rpm mark are whats important for day to day driving and are usually around the 5-10bhp mark and to be honest on a car starting out around 260-280 its not something you will notice - it does smoothen the power delivery though.

[Adrian@TORQEN]

Yes and no, Coldel. You don't need more power for the day to day driving. When you're in play mode, inevitably you get to 5800rpm

[coldel]

Aye yeah there will be those moments (maybe more often for you Adrian than most of us!! ) but in getting there you are looking at less bhp from 800 through to 5800 - its that average between the two which is more reflective of the map and which will be used more often.

[Neilp]

I'll see if I can find my old dyno graphs from the various tune ups my car got. I gained quite a bit of HP throughout the rev range; but, more importantly, I gained shed loads of torque throughout the rev range- the torque graph was pretty much flat across it.

[coldel]

I think that would be worth a go (although appreciate your car is slightly more special in terms of tuning than most ) - average gain across the range is definitely a really good stat and much more useful than peak bhp - even average across the everyday usable range ie not to the redline, I dont rev to the red in every gear

[GIXXERUK]

TDI North ............

 

"Working in association with Abbey Motorsport, we are able to offer the Uprev ECU remapping solution.

The Uprev is £402, for that you get the licence which is transferable between cars if you wish, plus the dyno tuning. The process takes about 3 hours. We also need to know the registration number and age if the vehicle has a private plate.

Typically you will see much improved throttle response, better midrange, better fuel economy and in most cases about a 25bhp increase in bhp.

 

If you make further changes to the car and need the map adjusting and you already have the licence then further calibration adjustments are charged at £80+vat per hour."

[coldel]

I'll see if I can find my old dyno graphs from the various tune ups my car got. I gained quite a bit of HP throughout the rev range; but, more importantly, I gained shed loads of torque throughout the rev range- the torque graph was pretty much flat across it.

 

Found mine! Packed away on photobucket...so my point is really that between 1500 and 4000 revs you are seeing a much lower gain in BHP, if anyone thinks they can feel more power on a 250bhp car because they have gained 5bhp at 2000 revs they clearly have super senses in their backside All the gains happen much higher up the range, it did flatten out a dip around 5300 revs though. Average gain over the whole curve, at a guess 10bhp? At the most used lower end a bit less.

 

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Gain in torque through the Rev range thou. We are never going to find huge gains on a N/A car.

 

But together with the throttle restrictions removed in the lower 3 gears the Uprev is a reasonable gain for the costs as well as recalibration the time for the degradation of the vehicles sensors.

 

 

[coldel]

My point though is that when people say they get 15bhp from a remap they often refer to the max gain, the average gain is often quite a lot less. Hence the placebo effect. Have to be wary also of the visual impact of the charts, the curve on the left for instance misses out 75% of the numbers, the difference is actually relatively small.

 

Although the cost of the remap is relatively small you could say i.e. £350+ most people spend around £1000 on an exhaust, induction kit etc to get that 8bhp extra on average across the range.

[Jetpilot]

most people spend around £1000 on an exhaust, induction kit etc to get that 8bhp extra on average across the range.

 

The only reason i bought an exhaust is because of the sound, so its money well spent, wasnt interested in any minimal performance gains it might or might not give. You can always get good returns on selling exhausts too, so its not dead money so to speak

 

One of my last times out at Castle Combe a mate was in his upreved 350z, there was absolutely nothing in it on acceleration.

[coldel]

Absolutely, there is no point in considering an exhaust purely for performance, which is why the exhaust note is so important when purchasing - same for induciton - I think the given knowledge is that the standard box is the best for performance yet everyone likes to switch to something else just for the noise.

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

My point though is that when people say they get 15bhp from a remap they often refer to the max gain, the average gain is often quite a lot less. Hence the placebo effect. Have to be wary also of the visual impact of the charts, the curve on the left for instance misses out 75% of the numbers, the difference is actually relatively small.

 

Although the cost of the remap is relatively small you could say i.e. £350+ most people spend around £1000 on an exhaust, induction kit etc to get that 8bhp extra on average across the range.

 

misses out 75% of the numbers? I dont understand this Coldel?

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

most people spend around £1000 on an exhaust, induction kit etc to get that 8bhp extra on average across the range.

 

The only reason i bought an exhaust is because of the sound, so its money well spent, wasnt interested in any minimal performance gains it might or might not give. You can always get good returns on selling exhausts too, so its not dead money so to speak

 

One of my last times out at Castle Combe a mate was in his upreved 350z, there was absolutely nothing in it on acceleration.

 

to drive away from someone your need 50+ bhp to notice a difference. but it isn't all about top end power is about an overall gains.

[88sam88]

This is on my list of things to do. couple of other things to do first .I'm not even thinking about bhp increases more about optimum performance of the engine . I believe that the ecu in standard form only gives 80% throttle in first second and third gear I would like my butterfly to open 100% in all gears .eny idea how much this would be in total

 

no you get 100% in every gear but just throttle sensativty in the first 3 gears is different

 

Out of curiosity is the remap on lower gears similar/same effect as those electronic throttle controller devises where it has different speed settings (sp1-7) to change the throttle sensitivity? Thanks

[coldel]

My point though is that when people say they get 15bhp from a remap they often refer to the max gain, the average gain is often quite a lot less. Hence the placebo effect. Have to be wary also of the visual impact of the charts, the curve on the left for instance misses out 75% of the numbers, the difference is actually relatively small.

 

Although the cost of the remap is relatively small you could say i.e. £350+ most people spend around £1000 on an exhaust, induction kit etc to get that 8bhp extra on average across the range.

 

misses out 75% of the numbers? I dont understand this Coldel?

 

Sorry yes not a very good description! The scale runs from 800 to 1100 making the gap look big when in fact it is quite small, the same goes for the BHP it starts at 50, if you start it from 0 then you 'visually' see the true difference. Appreciate though that this helps reading the charts easier. Just in terms of what your remap gets you, I think everyone quotes 15-20bhp when in fact a more truer read is the average across the range (would be a nice number to have calculated on the software).

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Codel,

 

like this

 

[coldel]

Bingo!

 

I wasn't having a dig, I am a consumer researcher with a statistics degree, so am annoyingly finikety with how data is presented

Edited May 11, 2015 by coldel

[docwra]

Bingo!

 

I wasn't having a dig, I am a consumer researcher with a statistics degree, so am annoyingly finikety with how data is presented

 

Then why dont you just say "Its the area under the graph that matters" then rather than stabbing about with percentages? Im not a statistician but Im sure with a bit of A level integration I could tell you the overall percentage gains between a standard car and an uprevved car.

 

Likewise, believe it or not every mod I ever put onto my previous car was solely for performance, so whats with this exhaust analogy? If you include the manifold/headers and cat then you can see a very good increase in power just by changing the breathing, if I got another 40hp but the car sounded crap I could live with that.

 

Also remember any power increase will reduce fuel consumption if youre driving at the same speed

[coldel]

In terms of area under the graph, yes that is true it gives you an even truer representation of what you have gained but that wasn't the issue - the question was why are the print outs showing peak power gain, my point was if showing a single figure that you want to interpret then average gain is more useful.

 

In terms of area under the graph is it 'day to day useful' - can someone understand '8bhp gain on average across the range' easier than 'total area gain of 125bhp²' as an output, I would say in most instances they can. Its by no means the most accurate way to report it but its the most usable. When presenting data its often good to present quartiles, max, min along with some sort of score on the middle ground such as mean or median, all covered in your GCSE course.

 

Your big arches were performance mods were they...? Maybe you are a departure from the norm then and somewhat of an outlier but most people that post on asking about exhausts invariably want to know what they sound like before buying, which indicates it not all about performance.

[docwra]

When presenting data its often good to present quartiles, max, min along with some sort of score on the middle ground such as mean or median, all covered in your GCSE course.

 

Or you could just divide the total area before by the total area after and multiply by 100 to get the average percentage increase. All of these numbers are just guesses, it would be good to get an actual figure IMO.

 

Your big arches were performance mods were they...? Maybe you are a departure from the norm then and somewhat of an outlier

 

They did let me run wider wheels, which meant wider tyres ......... TBF I was more referring to my driftcar where I didnt give a toss what it looked or sounded like as long as it worked as well as possible. Ive always been a function over form guy, while this might not be the case with everyone I thought your statement was a little general, a lot of people are ONLY interested in performance.

[coldel]

Of course a drift car will be performance over style...I would be surprised if anyone went the other way - however on here with peoples 'pride and joys' all I ever see with regards to exhausts are the sounds, hell there was even a thread arguing if single exit or dual exit looked better and influencing purchasing decisions.

 

The percentage uplift is useful and another way of expressing the actual BHP uplift, my point stands that is that peak gain is not particularly useful if you are wanting to gauge your uprev performance.

[Toon Chris]

Also remember any power increase will reduce fuel consumption if youre driving at the same speed

 

Well, no. You don't get something for nothing.

To get more power you have to burn more fuel and air. The point of breathing mods is to allow more air to be crammed in and exhaust gasses let out per piston cycle, meaning more fuel can be burnt, hence more power.

If an engine is not burning all its fuel and your mods improve the efficiency of the burn then that would get you more power for the same fuel, but modern engines use feedback loops to keep the fuel ratio right all the time.

There is some fiddling around the edges of the figures you can argue but basically to get more power you need to burn more fuel.

[docwra]

So using a map created for an individual car rather than 100,000 doesnt make any difference then?

 

Trust me, Ive seen it, bought it and experienced it, a custom map will generally increase power and save fuel.

[davedutch]

Docwra,

 

I totally agree, my remap produced approx 10% improvement in mpg, it makes sense if the car is set up to burn fuel more efficiently then in a like for like situation it will burn less fuel

 

Wales will let me know if I notice any other improvements.

[Raymond7g]

I have emailed Dyna tune and according to them they use uprev and charge £360+vat?