gangzoom Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) So I've been the owner of a 109 BHP, 100 mile range full electric Nissan Leaf for the last 5 days....My previous 3 cars have been a: Honda Integra Type R, Nissan 350Z, and a tuned BMW 335i running upto 380bhp... So how I find swapping my BMW for a Leaf?? to a The first thing to say is that the current generation of EVs have two main short comings compared to ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars. 1: Battery range needs to increase by about 30-40%. Unless you can afford the Tesla S (£50K+) if your daily commute is more than 30 miles one-way I wouldn’t bother trying an EV. Realistic range of the Leaf in current chilli temperature is around 70 miles, so a 60 mile daily round trip will have some ‘anxiety’. People do it, but I couldn’t. 2: Initial upfront cost needs to come down. I’ve ‘bought' my Leaf for £13K….but that’s with a £5k government grant, Nissan taking £5K off the list price, and some fancy leasing options on the battery. If you look at an i3 £30K (before government grant), that’s a lot to pay for what is essentially a city car. Both these two points, are been addressed, Nissan is set announce a 150 mile range Leaf in the next 18 months, and prices will come down, as battery technology gets cheaper. So with these two issues in mentioned upfront what do I think about the Leaf? In short - I love it, and I wouldn’t swap it for any of my previous cars 1: The EV drivetrain In the last 10 years spending £££ on a car has never been a issue for me: Honda Integra Type R: Nissan 350Z: Awarded 'Car of the year' back in 2004 by TopGear magazine. Heavily tuned BMW 335i: Pushing 380bhp, with quaife LSD and bespoke suspension - For all intents and purposes as quick as a M3 in a straight line and around the corners. So believe me, the last thing I want to drive around in is a 3 cylinder shopping trolley regardless of how cheap it is...I really really wanted to hate the Leaf on the test drive, but I was sold on the EV drivetrain by the time I had pulled out of the dealership. Performance car manufactures strive to develop drivetrains with several main features: Rapid access to torque (hence some people love diesel), a smooth drive transmission (DCT), combined with good Economy/reliability ... The truth of the matter is, even though the Leaf is a pretty mundane family run-about, and has a EV motor only capable of 80kw (109bhp), it delivers the power in a way no ICE car can ever manage. The ability to access 100% torque at 0 rpm, along with the concept of NOT having any gears or any engine noise/vibration, makes for a really fun and refined driving experience. Now that I've got use to the driving experience delivered by the EV drivetrain of the Leaf, I honestly have to say I wouldn't swap the Leaf for any of my previous cars ....and the really exciting thing about EVs is the current crop of car are essentially 1st generation machines. 2: The technology: I love gadgets, the BMW 335i was pretty poor in that respect, our current Lexus has almost too much, but the Leaf is in a different league. Bluetooth audio/keyless entry/reversing camera etc (it's got all that). Ok interior isn't covered in cow skin, and hasn't got the iPad interface of the Tesla. But you can tell this 'car' is more a technology product than a traditional car. You can re-mote control charging and the climate confrol system on the car, Live read outs of the energy use etc Nissan will will even analyse all the data and compare you to other Leaf drivers...It's like Strava but for cars!! 3: Cost of ownership (lack of) My Leaf is currently reporting 4.1 miles per kWH of electricity. Economic 7 rates = 6.6p/kWH (My economic 7 meter is going in next week) Leaf therefore cost 1.65p per mile to ‘re-fuel’ - not including any free charging... My 335i, assuming 25mpg (realistic mpg in urban traffic), £1.15/l = 20p per mile in fuel Our IS300H, assuming 50 mpg, £1.15/l = 10p per mile. So the Leaf cost 12(TWELVE) times less to refuel than the 335i, and 6(SIX) times less to refuel than even the very economical Lexus…. That said, running costs of a car has never been a concern for me, but for those wanting the cheapest to get from A to B, the Leaf is very hard to beat!!! (Even when compared to just walking/bus) 4: Range / Charge: The first thing everyone asks me about the Leaf is range…Despite only using it to get around the City, I’ve managed to cover some 150 miles in the last few days, and the issue of range hasn’t bothered me once!! I plug my phone/laptop into the mains at night, and now do the same with the Leaf. It's less hassle than visiting a petrol station at 6am in the morning. Realistic range is about 70-80 miles, so unless your been stupid on purpose and don't understand the limitations/concept of range/charging I cannot see how anyone could run of electricity…There are also a whole load of ‘free’ charging points in various public places if you look. Battery life also doesn't appear to be an issue. After an initial rapid full in charge capacity, Tesla owners report 94-92% battery efficiency at 50k, with a 1% drop in charge capacity every 18K miles or so….Just for reference my BMW has done 60K at time of sale, and had cost me in excess of £3K in repair bills using a friendly trustworthy local mechanic, that bill would be closer to £6K had I used BMW dealers. The likes of Toyota/Honda are still obsessed by hydrogen fuel cells, these guys need to wake up and smell the air, battery EVs are here, and people are buying them with real money (like my self). Insummary: I’m 100% sold on the concept of battery EV as the future mode of transport. Having probably spent the best part of £50K+ on ICE cars over the years, I cannot see my self parting with a single penny for another ICE machine. The Leaf may only have 1/4 the power of previous BMW 335i, but the EV drivetrain is so much better than the ICE setup I’m not missing the BMW at all. Finally I cannot do a whole write up on EVs without mentioning the car I will own next …The Tesla S. Tesla is a technology young company with little previous experience of building cars. but in 2013 with only their second ever product, the Tesla S. Consumer Reports (American version of Which) called it the ' The best car ever tested'....2 years running...Can you imagine how good the 2nd/3rd generation EVs will be??...I cannot wait to see how the car industry develops over the next 5-10 years, I think much like how Apple shock up the entire mobile phone market in 2008, Tesla is going to do the same to the car industry. http://www.consumerr...-2014/index.htm Edited April 6, 2015 by gangzoom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Great load of info!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will370z Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Good little write up and good to see you enjoying the car. One thing that gets me with all the green cars is why they have to look so awful though, just because it's environmentally friendly doesn't mean it has to look so bad. Tesla and BMW have thankfully changed that though. For me it's not a practical solution at the moment as the current range for many of my trips puts me right on the limit of the cars capability but as a little city car it makes perfect sense. Enjoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve916 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Nice write up I totally get the idea with green cars, but at the moment I'm enjoying burning real fuel too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumpy000 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Very nice write up. Also the car is made up of recycled water bottles. - wow ey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSQra Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Is advertising the fiat multipla brother a part of the nissan deal you got ? sorry but this car is ugly, I'd rather be a bus ****er then drive it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADPHONES Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I have a friend who runs a Nissan Leaf for his Mon to Fri commute from Warrington to Manchester. Only thing is It's almost at the limit of its range so he drives with heaters off during winter But at the weekend he runs a lovely R35! He absolutely loves his leaf too as that commute would be too much for him to justify in his GTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'll keep the thread update over the next 24 months....I do find people who push the range of the Leaf to the max very brave...I certainly wouldn't want to be running down to the last 10% of charge . I've already got approval from the wife for a Tesla to replace the Leaf . I'll probably be putting in the order for the Tesla in 18 months or so given how long delivery is taking!! But will probably have to settle for the cheaper/poverty spec 380bhp version rather than the 691bhp insane versions....Still I suspect I wouldn't be disappointed by it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I've already got approval from the wife for a Tesla to replace the Leaf . I'll probably be putting in the order for the Tesla in 18 months or so given how long delivery is taking!! But will probably have to settle for the cheaper/poverty spec 380bhp version rather than the 691bhp insane versions....Still I suspect I wouldn't be disappointed by it Lucky you to be able to afford the Tesla and yes, that I would be happy to drive........ but a Leaf absolutely no way and like most of the mainstream electic cars currently on offer for the masses, they are just pig ugly. That said, some 15 years ago I got involved in promoting the all electric Peugeot 206 cars and Citroen Belingo vans that were being leased to Council's. Now the 206, in its time, was a good looking car and good fun to drive around town, but unfortunately the technology was in its infancy and when they went wrong and went back to Peugeot you didn't see them again, or hear what the issue was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Good write up, thanks for sharing I've only had a very short drive in one, but I was thoroughly impressed by it and understand why a two car house would have one. Especially with the breaks you can get if it's a company car. I was impressed with the good quality interior, as well as the torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Very interesting read. I'd actually quite like to own or at least drive a proper electric car one day but it would have to be something along the lines of the BMW i8 or Tesla for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 But you can tell this 'car' is more a technology product than a traditional car. And that sums exactly why I have zero interest in ever purchasing an EV, ever. I mean, it's a great write up and I'd be proud to have written that myself, but for me even the most boring drive in a diesel FWD van on a DC at 60mph still leaves me feeling involved in my hobby, my passion. Take away all of the oily stuff and the vibrations and the feedback and the mechanical clunks and I might as well not bother. Or be asleep. For a business man being chauffeured around so he can work in the rear seats an EV may make sense, but if I ever buy one I hope someone takes me out and shoots me. But yeah, great writing fella, despite my comments I really enjoyed reading that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) LoL I can understand my people like all the noise/drama of ICE performance cars....I have been to Four F1 GPs in various parts of the world Just about to open a Santander 1-2-3 account. Will be paying the electricity via that account, and putting in the money from the 335i sale. The interest I get from that account is going to cover the electricity bill....It's not much, but every £ saved is another £ going into the Tesla fund ....oh in my view the i8 is the biggest waste of £££ around. More expensive than Tesla S, seats less people, slower, rubbish EV range....How BMW managed to develop something so rubbish compared to the Tesla S despite spending so much £££ on carbon fibre etc is beyond me Edited April 7, 2015 by gangzoom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-B Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 But you can tell this 'car' is more a technology product than a traditional car. And that sums exactly why I have zero interest in ever purchasing an EV, ever. I mean, it's a great write up and I'd be proud to have written that myself, but for me even the most boring drive in a diesel FWD van on a DC at 60mph still leaves me feeling involved in my hobby, my passion. Take away all of the oily stuff and the vibrations and the feedback and the mechanical clunks and I might as well not bother. Or be asleep. For a business man being chauffeured around so he can work in the rear seats an EV may make sense, but if I ever buy one I hope someone takes me out and shoots me. But yeah, great writing fella, despite my comments I really enjoyed reading that I'm with Dan on this one, I appreciate the technology & engineering put into these cars but would never own one as my 'car' I'm a true petrolhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-B Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Just about to open a Santander 1-2-3 account. Will be paying the electricity via that account, and putting in the money from the 335i sale. The interest I get from that account is going to cover the electricity bill....It's not much, but every £ saved is another £ going into the Tesla fund Or you could just get an Annual train/bus ticket, pay your electricity that way & save forking out for a car that will depreciate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Just about to open a Santander 1-2-3 account. Will be paying the electricity via that account, and putting in the money from the 335i sale. The interest I get from that account is going to cover the electricity bill....It's not much, but every £ saved is another £ going into the Tesla fund Or you could just get an Annual train/bus ticket, pay your electricity that way & save forking out for a car that will depreciate Actually at 30p/mile, it's certainly cheaper than the train, and not far off the cost of buying monthly passes for all 3 different bus companies that cover Leicester (£160/month in total)....Infact I don't actually know why anyone gets the bus with the cost of the Leaf deals going, I could have actually 'bought' the base-spec Leaf and insured/serviced it for 2 years for £155/month ALL-IN with no deposit. If you charge it using the free public charing points, it is actually CHEAPER than buying all the required monthly bus passes that covers Leicester.....That really is ridiculously cheap Edited April 7, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's driving around with a paper bag over my head to save the embarrassment of being seen in one, let alone driving it, that I can't be doing with Nah, we are petrolheads for that very reason and I have fully respected your previous choice of cars but leaf it out please Now when you have the Tesla that is a different matter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Great write up - Not going to be buying one just yet though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) It's driving around with a paper bag over my head to save the embarrassment of being seen in one, let alone driving it, that I can't be doing with Nah, we are petrolheads for that very reason and I have fully respected your previous choice of cars but leaf it out please Now when you have the Tesla that is a different matter Looked at all the finances today...The Tesla fund is actually much healther than I thought, the top spec 700bhp version might not be the pipe dream I thought it was ....I suspect the delima I'll have in 18-24 months time is to decided between a used current generation Tesla S (decent numbers sold already in the UK, so there will be used stock) or a newer/fancier model....Looking fowards to making that decision. So don't worry I'm still very much interested in performance cars....only problem is I cannot really call my self a 'pertrol head' when these things don't run on petrol (unless you count the coal/gas/oil usedto generate the electrcity ) Edited April 7, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Excellent write up there. I'm going to wait for the oil to run out first though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Surely this should be in " The Green Room "...................................... (for lots of reasons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Nice review, sounds like a perfect commuter vehicle, not sure it would be much fun planning longer journeys around charging points but then that isn't exactly the point of a leaf is it... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Just had a short passenger ride in a leaf, very nice I must say Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) So first week of ownership and 200miles done. I've only had to pay to recharge the car overnight once (from 30% to 100%). This is because currently there are many free public charging points. Today I charged up for 1.5 hrs whilst I did some supermarket shopping and light lunch (post night shift), over easter weekend I charged up for free whilst in a large shopping centre....So in fact over the last 200 miles I've paid about £1 to 're-fuel' the Leaf....I cannot think of any other form of transport that can come close !! But for me, getting the Leaf was as much about trying out the new technology as much as saving £££. I’m really really surprised at how much I love the Leaf, despite the fact it’s by far the slowest car I’ve owned in the last 10 years. Regardless of cost I honestly wouldn’t swap the Leaf for my previous 380bhp BMW 335i, despite the yawning performance gap. I just have one thing to say to Elon Musk and Tesla….Just get on with it and announce the Tesla III, and I’ll happily drop a £10K deposit today to secure an early build slot for a RHD car Oh my 'free' home charge point was installed today, it can pull unto 7.2kWh compared to 2.1 kWh from normal 3 pin....I've turned it off at the master switch, the Leaf doesn't have big enough batteries to need that kind of charge rate...This thing is reserved for the Tesla Edited April 8, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I would like to get a leaf just to block in all the twunts who park in electric car only charging bays when it is busy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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