Ekona Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Good point, do you buy the batteries on the Leaf or are they leased? You'll also have to go main dealer for fitting the replacements and that's not going to be cheap either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I read an article the other day (which, typically, I now cannot find) that said the subsidy was limited to X number of cars, and the massive take up increase on these in the last couple of years meant that the cap would be breached the end of this year. If I've got that wrong, my mistake. I've not driven an EV, you're right. However, give me the choice of a 600bhp diesel or a 200bhp petrol and I'm choosing the petrol every time. It's not about power, it's not about acceleration or speed, it's about how the whole package makes you feel when you drive it. I can see how 700bhp would be fun for a week, but I'd want something to hold my attention a bit longer than that. I hope you haven’t just compared the drivetrain of something as good as the Tesla to a diesel (Trust me I wouldn’t have swapped my 335i for something that has 0.001% hint of been like our old diesel Civic)...The main reason I love the 109 bhp Leaf, it's more 'fun' to drive than my old 380bhp ICE 335i.... The article your looking for is this…But it’s the usual journalist not doing their home work, the department of transport (not to be confused with the government) is reviewing the EV grant as we speak. And it’s likely once the current 50,000 car limit is reached, a staggered system will come in place, to promote the sale of battery EVs rather than just plug-in hybrids. http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-32217969 When it needs a replacement battery pack, it is not going to be a £50 jobbie from your local Halfords........ Battery are obvious a concern, it's the biggest cost of the car. But this is what the motor industry is saying about battery life concerns now that the Leaf has been around for a few years. http://fleetworld.co...ults/0434019180 Incidentally a replacement battery from Nissan is £5000, this goes down to £4000 after Nissan rebates you £1000 for your old battery. A few years ago the cost was predicted to be £8000, and the cost will fall more as the years go on. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/89694/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-to-cost-4920 The main issue is like I said, the current EVs are all 1.0 cars. Remember how rubbish the original iPhone was, rubbish battery, no 3G, no Apps, stupidly expensive compared to other phones. People buying things like Tesla’s now and paid £30K for a Leaf back in 2011 are really early adopters, and most know that in 2-3 years time the same product will be cheaper and better….But that’s always been the case with technology products. Nissan will be announcing a 2016/17 Leaf at some point with a real range of 150 miles for the same price as the current car, hence why I have no interest in actually ‘owing’ the Leaf I’m driving now...and only jumped on-board once the numbers worked in my favour due to all the discounts. All I suggest is that people go and try these things for themselves and make up their own mind. Nissan do 7 days test drives for free. Interesting, there’s been hardly any negative comments on this post from people who have actually driven/been in an EV (Even an EV van) These things clearly don't work for every one, and many wouldnt want to swap their ICE car just yet....But for me, I find it very hard NOT seeing these battery EVs as been the future of cars....Hydrogen fuel cells may be needed for things like lorries/buses, but for personal cars, I think battery technology is pretty much ready. Edited April 15, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ironically I see it as the opposite, that EVs would be ideal for inner city public transport. Thanks for finding that article btw, I knew I'd seen it somewhere! I made the comparison with the diesel as it's a different style of power delivery, and I can't see 700bhp from 0rpm as being something I want to live with for my fun car. Especially seeing as it weighs two tonnes...! That's going to hugely affect dynamics, for the worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Ironically I see it as the opposite, that EVs would be ideal for inner city public transport. Thanks for finding that article btw, I knew I'd seen it somewhere! I made the comparison with the diesel as it's a different style of power delivery, and I can't see 700bhp from 0rpm as being something I want to live with for my fun car. Especially seeing as it weighs two tonnes...! That's going to hugely affect dynamics, for the worse. Rather than just guess, why don't you just book a Tesla test drive and find out, and than feed back to the rest of us?? I think one reviewer said it was like a Bugatti Veyron but even more brutal!! Why would you want that kind of acceleration in a 'fun' car The only reason I haven't even sat or been near a Tesla in the flesh is because I have no self control, and have a good track record of wasting £££ on cars....The Leaf serves me perfectly at the moment, the most un-sensible thing for me to do now is to order a Tesla S Edited April 15, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 You're absolutely right, I probably should. It's not that I wouldn't want that kind of power, more that for me lightness and agility combined with a good gear change is more important. I'll give Tesla a ring this afternoon, if I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I read an article the other day (which, typically, I now cannot find) that said the subsidy was limited to X number of cars, and the massive take up increase on these in the last couple of years meant that the cap would be breached the end of this year. If I've got that wrong, my mistake. I've not driven an EV, you're right. However, give me the choice of a 600bhp diesel or a 200bhp petrol and I'm choosing the petrol every time. It's not about power, it's not about acceleration or speed, it's about how the whole package makes you feel when you drive it. I can see how 700bhp would be fun for a week, but I'd want something to hold my attention a bit longer than that. I hope you haven’t just compared the drivetrain of something as good as the Tesla to a diesel (Trust me I wouldn’t have swapped my 335i for something that has 0.001% hint of been like our old diesel Civic)...The main reason I love the 109 bhp Leaf, it's more 'fun' to drive than my old 380bhp ICE 335i.... I just don't get how....How is it more fun? I can see these cars appealing to environmentally friendly people, and people who just buy odd car for all the wrong reasons, but I just can't see these ever being attractive to true passionate car fanatics... Edited April 15, 2015 by grundy225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 If you like roller coasters I guess it will be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I hope you haven’t just compared the drivetrain of something as good as the Tesla to a diesel (Trust me I wouldn’t have swapped my 335i for something that has 0.001% hint of been like our old diesel Civic)...The main reason I love the 109 bhp Leaf, it's more 'fun' to drive than my old 380bhp ICE 335i.... I just don't get how....How is it more fun? Indeed, either thats a bit of a stretch or your 335i was a lot worse to drive than my 135i is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimboy2 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 If your batteries do fail make sure your not being ripped off by the stealers. Almost happened to this guy but managed to fix himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I've recently had this for a week This is Nissans electric van option. I've got to say it's a great piece of kit especially when it's used for local deliveries. I was a bit sceptical at first about the performance but the range and the costs seemed to add up well so I thought I'd give it a try. What a great vehicle tho.... The Instant torque on it was unbelievable and getting up to 70 was well under 10seconds. And for the week I had it, I only had to plug it in twice. Honestly guys if you've never tried one go book a little test drive just for a bit of fun. But unfortunately I didn't buy it for two main reasons. 1: It just wasn't big enough for me 2: Everytime a version with a bigger range is introduced it renders the previous version worthless. Oh and the salesman said that it was quicker than a 370 lol.... He looked a bit sheepish when he saw my 350 May be quicker to 10mph than a 370z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I hope you haven’t just compared the drivetrain of something as good as the Tesla to a diesel (Trust me I wouldn’t have swapped my 335i for something that has 0.001% hint of been like our old diesel Civic)...The main reason I love the 109 bhp Leaf, it's more 'fun' to drive than my old 380bhp ICE 335i.... I just don't get how....How is it more fun? Indeed, either thats a bit of a stretch or your 335i was a lot worse to drive than my 135i is All depends on what an individuals definition of fun is Maybe the ops use of the word fun is not quite right, a car to me is about how it makes you feel rather than performance. The op seems to have totally bought into the concept, probably way more than most would, I am genuinely happy for him and the info on this thread has been really good 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Leaf it out! more fun than a 380bhp!??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy_Baton Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I work in pricing for an Energy firm, everything regarding pricing is still in trial/experimentation. Early adopters get the charging points for free as we needed take up to get data. There are cancellation terms/fees that cover the cost of the charge point and keep the customers with us for enough time to recoup the costs of installation. I've driven the BMW i-3 a few times and its fun, but not sure if its just the novelty factor and having a new car to drive round in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 on the whole - loving this discussion - proper grown up words being used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Maybe the words fun and practical are getting mixed up? #teamtarmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Make like a tree and leaf, sorry! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) May be I've gone mad (my wife tells me this every day...but that's even before I bought the Leaf ) But I 100% enjoy driving the 109bhp, 100 mile range, Leaf more than my 335i/Z/Integra R....On the right road, in the right condition, the Integra R in my mind however still delivers the best driving experience, but 99.95% of the time, I would take the Leaf (unless I have do a trip longer than 70 miles that is ) All this is only my opinion, but rather than just dismiss EVs (as many people seem to do), I really think people should go and try them and make up their own minds. My aim is still very much to get into a Tesla ASAP, knowing full well that in 3-4 years times a cheaper, faster, better, Tesla will be around.....But someone at some point have already mentioned 'Life is too short'. Just a final thought: A £80K Tesla P85D with 691bhp will do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. A £200K Ferrari 458 Spider will do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. A £££ McLaren F1 will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. A ££££ Ferrari Enzo will match the P85D to 60, at 3.1 seconds. A £££££ Bugatti Veyron is quicker to 0-60 2.7 seconds. Though all of these cars are stupidly expensive, and most people can only every dream of sitting in one, let alone own or drive one.....With the magic of depreciation, I suspect some people on this forum may well have the funds to access at least one of those cars in 3 years time, as well as actually consider running one as a day to day family car.....A used Tesla P85D is probably the bargain of the century given its performance potential in a few years time..... Well that's the line I'm trying to convince the wife with Edited April 15, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) A GT-R will walk over all of those, but so what? 0-60 means nothing, it's how the overall drive makes you feel. That's why you like the Leaf over the 335i, I suspect. Edited April 15, 2015 by Ekona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Still waiting on the response of 'How it's more fun' Someone passionate about cars and driving will know it's not about speeds and 0-60 times...yes it's nice, but it's all about the car and how it handles and how it performs and all it's other features. So you'd have more fun with the leaf on track that the 335i? (Not that that scenario would happen) It's fine that you love this car, and it suits your needs, but in my opinion, these just aren't driver cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimboy2 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Everytime I see gangzoom post I'm waiting for the sales pitch! Hats off for being so passionate about it. But EV just isn't appealing to me at all. I need the noise, the smell, the vibrations I need all that to feel connected to a car. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Everytime I see gangzoom post I'm waiting for the sales pitch! Hats off for being so passionate about it. But EV just isn't appealing to me at all. I need the noise, the smell, the vibrations I need all that to feel connected to a car. Plus what would you do with all that spare cash from fuel Just set fire to it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Plus what would you do with all that spare cash from fuel Just set fire to it? I don't think you need to be a genius to work out what I'm saving up for 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm in Norway on a Scando road trip (suprisingly rather enjoying an X3 X-Drive 3.0 oil burner, but that's another post) and you cannot move for Teslas here! So far I've had nights in Copenhagen, Gothenburg and Oslo in the 3 days and not seen a single Zed but seen about 15 Tesla S and more Leafs than I can shake a stick at, there's one of each downstairs in the car park and it's only got 20 spaces! Saw two Teslas parked next to each other in Oslo today (never seen one on it's own in the flesh before this trip) and the rest just dotted about. I can only assume they are heavily supported by Sweden/Norway (there's loads of EV charging points on the streets). In other news, went to the Volvo Museum today, much better than you might think Back on topic, not saying they're good or bad, just plentiful here and given this is Gen1 tech, I can only assume they'll get better as the tech matures. It'll be interesting to see how subsidies progress/regress in the next few years, if popularity increases. I really do like the look of the Teslas, but rinsed a leaf in the oil buner today at the traffic light GP, no chance on wet roads with X-Drive and sport mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 A Tesla S in Norway is apparently the same price as a VW Passat. It's all down to tax, and the fact Norway gets most of electricity for 'free' through hydro and geothermal energy. I believe in Norway the Tesla is actually the number one best selling car for a few months last year!! So the X3 your driving was probably far mor expensive to buy than the Tesla But clearly they all must be mad there, who would buy an electric car in a country with cold weather most of the time, not many cities, the need to have the heater on everywhere you drive....Just think of all the range anxiety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Leaf it out! more fun than a 380bhp!??? Yew woodn't beleaf it wood yew... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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