docwra Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hi Folks First, the intro - Im docwra, and Im over from the SXOC forum where Im a moderator - Ive currently got an S13 and an S12, but have had three S-chassis before as well (S14, S12, S13) so I kinda like Nissans I guess Ive decided that the time is right to look at a 350 and have found a bloody lovely one near me - its an 04 import with the GT Pack and is pretty much bob on for what Im after ............. EXCEPT! I took it for a test drive this morning, about 20 mins, and all was good apart from a slight rattle when on full throttle. I went back tonight to drive it again and satisfied myself that the rattle was nothing to worry about While driving back to the chap who is selling the cars house it suddenly cut out - I wasnt sparing the horses, in 4th at about 6Kish and suddenly it stopped accelerating, and started slowing up. I can only liken it to when a boost pipe pops off on a turbo car - it wouldnt rev any higher and was straining to hold revs. I stopped up, turned it off, then back on after 5 seconds and it was fine - went for another 20 mins with no problems at all. The guy selling (who seems like a top feller) claims its never happened before, but I thought it was worth coming on here to see if anyone had anything similar previously? The rest of the car is spot on and a good price, but obviously I dont want to be shelling out to find I need a new ECU or something 2 weeks down the road - as things stand Ive got a deposit on the car but depending on what you good people say Ill have to decide what to do Ive done a search and the only thing I can see similar is related to HKS induction kits, but this car is totally standard. Any ideas?? Mods - sory if this is wrong section but I thought it was a good place to start - if someone can tell me its a one off, or nothing to worry about Ill be here a lot more after Thursday :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 mate I'll be honest I've never heard of anyone needing a new ECU before. May be worth having a dealer check it out as they may be able to get an error code. Good luck though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I love this line : The guy selling (who seems like a top feller) claims its never happened before, but I thought it was worth coming on here to see if anyone had anything similar previously? That might be because he's not done 112mph in it My guess is its not been delimited. I'm 99% certain thats what it is. Another thing, jap cars done have a GT pack option. Pretty much everything is an option over there including footwell lighting which isnt available in the UK. Leather, Brembo's, 18" wheels, rear spoiler, Bose stereo, Xenons are some of the main options that you may want to watch out for. Oh and welcome! Hope you enjoy the site. Fire away if you have any more questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I love this line : The guy selling (who seems like a top feller) claims its never happened before, but I thought it was worth coming on here to see if anyone had anything similar previously? That might be because he's not done 112mph in it My guess is its not been delimited. I'm 99% certain thats what it is. Another thing, jap cars done have a GT pack option. Pretty much everything is an option over there including footwell lighting which isnt available in the UK. Leather, Brembo's, 18" wheels, rear spoiler, Bose stereo, Xenons are some of the main options that you may want to watch out for. Oh and welcome! Hope you enjoy the site. Fire away if you have any more questions... Looking at it, your probably right 6k rpms in fourth probably is about 112mph HKS delimiter needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tere Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Sounds like she went into fail-safe (limp it home) mode. What you describe sounds like a momentary Throttle Position Sensor/Electronic Throttle Control issue. It commonly happens when doing spirited driving and downshifting at high rpms without good rev matching, or rapid release of the throttle at high rpms (pedal position sensor zero). ECM detects a logic fault -- mismatch between rpm and pedal position. For the momentary glitch, turning the engine off and back on (as you did) will clear it (you can even do this on the fly at any speed). Usually, a combination of Check Engine, ABS/TCS/VDC and Slip lights is the indication of engine fail-safe operation (max rpm is 2000-2500). If you get the situation frequently it could be an indication of impending TPS/ETC failure -- replace the entire throttle body. Check Engine light and a 2135 code is TPS failure. Other issues can cause fail-safe operation, but in my experience TPS/ETC is the most common, particularly when related to the "spirited driving" scenario. Probably not a delimiter issue since once the speed drops back within range all is well. I'm not sure what the delimiter is for JDM, but in the States it's 156-157. When the delimiter engages, it just cuts the fuel completely until the speed drops. If you kept the throttle down it would be an engine surge - accelerate-decelerate-accelerate, and so on until you back off on the throttle. At that point, you're back to normal engine operation. The engine will not go into the fail-safe mode you experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 if it is the limiter then you need a HKS speed defencer for it. Bigphil on here I think can supply with handy fitting instructions. This needs to be done on all import models if you wish to go above the 112mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Sounds like she went into fail-safe (limp it home) mode. What you describe sounds like a momentary Throttle Position Sensor/Electronic Throttle Control issue. It commonly happens when doing spirited driving and downshifting at high rpms without good rev matching, or rapid release of the throttle at high rpms (pedal position sensor zero). ECM detects a logic fault -- mismatch between rpm and pedal position. For the momentary glitch, turning the engine off and back on (as you did) will clear it (you can even do this on the fly at any speed). Usually, a combination of Check Engine, ABS/TCS/VDC and Slip lights is the indication of engine fail-safe operation (max rpm is 2000-2500). If you get the situation frequently it could be an indication of impending TPS/ETC failure -- replace the entire throttle body. Check Engine light and a 2135 code is TPS failure. Other issues can cause fail-safe operation, but in my experience TPS/ETC is the most common, particularly when related to the "spirited driving" scenario. Probably not a delimiter issue since once the speed drops back within range all is well. I'm not sure what the delimiter is for JDM, but in the States it's 156-157. When the delimiter engages, it just cuts the fuel completely until the speed drops. If you kept the throttle down it would be an engine surge - accelerate-decelerate-accelerate, and so on until you back off on the throttle. At that point, you're back to normal engine operation. The engine will not go into the fail-safe mode you experienced. Are you confusing the 112mph JDM limiter with the top end 155mph limiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Sounds like she went into fail-safe (limp it home) mode. What you describe sounds like a momentary Throttle Position Sensor/Electronic Throttle Control issue. It commonly happens when doing spirited driving and downshifting at high rpms without good rev matching, or rapid release of the throttle at high rpms (pedal position sensor zero). ECM detects a logic fault -- mismatch between rpm and pedal position. For the momentary glitch, turning the engine off and back on (as you did) will clear it (you can even do this on the fly at any speed). Usually, a combination of Check Engine, ABS/TCS/VDC and Slip lights is the indication of engine fail-safe operation (max rpm is 2000-2500). If you get the situation frequently it could be an indication of impending TPS/ETC failure -- replace the entire throttle body. Check Engine light and a 2135 code is TPS failure. Other issues can cause fail-safe operation, but in my experience TPS/ETC is the most common, particularly when related to the "spirited driving" scenario. That sounds spot on mate. It wasnt the 112mph limiter - its been delimited and I saw rather more than that last night anyway;) Any speed limiter Ive experienced just momentarily cuts the engine, where this the engine didnt cut, it just became unresponsive. The exact words I used to the guy who owned the car was "get you home mode" - Ive experienced it on 200SX's before, usually when an air flow meter gives up or unplugs itself, but Im sure TPS faults have the same effect on CA/SR engines as well. One of the 350 owners on SXOC has had the same problem and said pretty much the same thing By the sound of things its a pretty rare one - the guy Im buying from swore blind it had never happened before and it doesnt look like many on here have either - I might just bite the bullet and buy the frickin thing and hope it doesnt get any worse. Are new TPS/Throttle bodies difficult/expensive to come by?? Likewise, is there a diagnostic on the ECU that I /Nissan UK can run to see if the TPS is buggereed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 well when on track mine might have actually read 125mph when i hit the limiter... Good luck, i think Tere has a thread on here somewhere about the TPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tere Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Replacing the throttle body is a piece of cake -- remove the intake tube at the throttle body; remove the 4 allen bolts; remove the connector to the TPS/ETC, replace with new (don't forget to plug in the connector in your haste to get back in business), and you're done. Do Accelerator Pedal Released Learning voodoo, followed by Throttle Valve Closed Learning voodoo, and finally Idle Air Volume Learning voodoo after replacing a throttle body. I can give you all the Nissan voodoo doodoo and five hail Marys if you need them. Oh heck, here's the Engine Control System -- it's got all the engine codes and diagnostics -- the above voodoo starts on page EC-50. Right click on the link and Save Target As to download and save on your computer -> http://tere.net/t-z/ec.pdf Brand new throttle bodies cost about $650 US, BUT Nissan makes factory rebuilt ones for $120 plus $40 core charge (refundable). It appears the TPS/ETC failures are common enough that Nissan is remanufacturing throttle bodies -- one of the very first Nissan rebuilt parts for the 350 they've offered. The engine code indicating TPS failure is 2135. With total TPS failure, your Z will be in unclearable fail-safe mode. You can decipher it with Nissan voodoo, or take it to any garage with electronic diagnostics (OBDII connection to ECM). Or find a friend who has a diagnostic program on their computer -- I use AutoTap to read engine operating parameters and codes (also clear codes). If any daring soul wants to experience TPS failure, just unplug the TPS/ETC connector on the throttle body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 extremely useful information tere, thank you for posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 added Tere's post to guides section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Thats bloody marvellous is that - cheers Reckon I might have to buy it then Will see you all again soon I reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tere Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 One of the possible issues that I think does the TPS/ETC in is it's location and lack of cooling. Motordyne makes a thermal spacer that goes between the throttle body and plenum. The concept is to reduce heat transference from the engine to the throttle body. They also make a spacer for the lower plenum (intake collector) to reduce heat transference from the engine to the plenum. This concept works with a normally aspirated Z. It probably won't work for a forced induction Z since in the summer time you could have intake temperatures at the 200 degree level even with intercooling. It's my initial belief that the Siebon TS hood reduces heat stress on the TPS/ETC by giving better cooling air flow around the throttle body -- provided you make the cooling vents funtional; as shipped, the vents are not functional. I don't think the twin throttle bodies on the '07 Z will have similar problems. It looks like the location will have better cooling. At least I hope not, because replacing two throttle bodies could be an expensive proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 MEGA BUMP! Thought I should add a footnote to this as I just found it while searching, I did buy the car (obviously) and Ive had the same problem a couple of times since, mostly when on track. Turning the ignition off always sorts it, knowing more about the car the TPS/Throttle pedal sensor conflict makes sense too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Got to love a 5 year bump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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