martinmac Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Anyone being banned is given time to sort their desk out. If they are dealing with a trader its not a problem. The member being banned is also told by e-mail so they can point out any oustanding issues like that. As has been said, its a very rare event and we do not comment on here as the member will not have the right to reply on here. Its not rocket science for someone to find out the members version but we at content that we take enough time to discuss it and get it right for the benefit of the forum so dont feel we need to justify each action. Subject closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Martin, whilst we understand that the decision has been made and will not be changed and I'm sure I speak for all of us here when I say we're fine with that and respect the Team's decision, surely you're not forbidding us to discuss this further? No harm in letting us put across our opinions, even if we ultimately understand that nothing will change. As long as we remain polite and respectful, I'd be very disappointed if we were banned from discussing a subject on here like this. Not a personal dig mate, we know each other well enough to by now that I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from, but just to make sure (and remembering my earlier post on here that got taken the wrong way) I'll chuck up some happy faces so you know I'm saying this in the nicest possible way. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'd be very disappointed if we were banned from discussing a subject on here like this. Seriously Dan you know the team better. Talk and debate as much as you like. I was pointing out that we have the whole forum to moderate and dont want to have to constantly discuss this one issue. As you will well remember mate, we also have to enjoy the forum otherwise why would we do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I dont expect you to reply to this as youve already made the admin position clear, and trust me, Ive had more than my share of people questioning admin, but ......... A list of banned people may however help clarify if someone has just left or been removed which may answer some of your questions but any more information than that would definitely not be right. I understand people want to know about this but really what value does it offer. ......... we operate in a community, and while most members will only use this board, there are quite a few that are on other boards as well, and Ive seen at least 10 or 15 guys come onto here after knowing them from elsewhere. If someone is banned for dodgy selling, or making threats against another member then why shouldnt that be common knowledge? If (for example) Whackywill turns up on the Babybmw forum and someone asks me about him, Im going to say hes a decent bloke, as thats all I know about him - if he then rips someone off for £200 on the basis of my word ........... likewise, if someone has been banned for threatening forum staff then it would be nice to know that before he starts doing the same on your forum. Thats the value, there have been a few scammers that have done the rounds of all of the forums that may not have been so successful if people had been a bit more open. They have been banned for not following rules, why protect their dignity as well? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Phew, just checking! That's cool bud, it just seemed a very final way to end your post, I nearly expected to click the submit button and find the topic locked! No-one expects the team to debate things forever, certainly I don't, and I'm not trying to be a PITA (for once). I just thought a bit of clarity was needed. And of course, you can guarantee that now we've cleared this up, the thread will die and no-one will post again! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 so dont feel we need to justify each action. No one is asking for "justification" of your actions, seems like there is a lot of paranoia in that comment. I am sure we all appreciate the job of mod/admin is a thankless one, but issues such as this just imho create a divide between members and "the team", the information we are asking for is harmless and informative, how can that be so bad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Looking at it from their POV, and I'm not speaking for them nor am I saying that this conversation went down when I was a Team Member (as it didn't), but my guess would be that sometimes people don't get banned because they break one rule, it's because they break several. You then need to explain each and every rule that was broken, which isn't always possible as the data isn't kept in a format that's easy to search, and justify each one: That takes time. I still think a quick one-liner saying "Jeff was banned because of some bad trading practices and poor reactions to moderation requests" would be enough, but others may want more detail which, let's face it, would be a real sod to sort out. I can't see any moral reason not to disclose the reason for a ban (it's not without precedent, think Greekman), so I'll assume that it's a time/effort thing. I'm not having a dig at the Team here, as it's not like I particularly tried to change things when I was a Mod and perhaps had the ability to chat behind the scenes, so I'm as guilty as anyone for the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 so dont feel we need to justify each action. No one is asking for "justification" of your actions, seems like there is a lot of paranoia in that comment. I am sure we all appreciate the job of mod/admin is a thankless one, but issues such as this just imho create a divide between members and "the team", the information we are asking for is harmless and informative, how can that be so bad? No paranoi at all, I am very relaxed on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Looking at it from their POV, and I'm not speaking for them nor am I saying that this conversation went down when I was a Team Member (as it didn't), but my guess would be that sometimes people don't get banned because they break one rule, it's because they break several. You then need to explain each and every rule that was broken, which isn't always possible as the data isn't kept in a format that's easy to search, and justify each one: That takes time. I still think a quick one-liner saying "Jeff was banned because of some bad trading practices and poor reactions to moderation requests" would be enough, but others may want more detail which, let's face it, would be a real sod to sort out. I can't see any moral reason not to disclose the reason for a ban (it's not without precedent, think Greekman), so I'll assume that it's a time/effort thing. I'm not having a dig at the Team here, as it's not like I particularly tried to change things when I was a Mod and perhaps had the ability to chat behind the scenes, so I'm as guilty as anyone for the status quo. I don't see why we need to know - apart from being generally nosey and adding a tiny frisson of intrigue to our sad little lives 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Doc explained it pretty well, I think. I also maintain that if you don't know where the lines are, how do you know when you've crossed them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 However, I will happily admit that part of it is down to being nosey, but then that's human nature. As is pushing boundaries, see my point above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Ekona chatting with a fellow forum member about why such and such was banned :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yes - Cissie and Ada would love all this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Looking at it from their POV, and I'm not speaking for them nor am I saying that this conversation went down when I was a Team Member (as it didn't), but my guess would be that sometimes people don't get banned because they break one rule, it's because they break several. You then need to explain each and every rule that was broken, which isn't always possible as the data isn't kept in a format that's easy to search, and justify each one: That takes time. I still think a quick one-liner saying "Jeff was banned because of some bad trading practices and poor reactions to moderation requests" would be enough, but others may want more detail which, let's face it, would be a real sod to sort out. I can't see any moral reason not to disclose the reason for a ban (it's not without precedent, think Greekman), so I'll assume that it's a time/effort thing. I'm not having a dig at the Team here, as it's not like I particularly tried to change things when I was a Mod and perhaps had the ability to chat behind the scenes, so I'm as guilty as anyone for the status quo. I don't see why we need to know - apart from being generally nosey and adding a tiny frisson of intrigue to our sad little lives Im not going to requote myself but see my post from the previous page, there is a world outside of 350Z-UK.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Looking at it from their POV, and I'm not speaking for them nor am I saying that this conversation went down when I was a Team Member (as it didn't), but my guess would be that sometimes people don't get banned because they break one rule, it's because they break several. You then need to explain each and every rule that was broken, which isn't always possible as the data isn't kept in a format that's easy to search, and justify each one: That takes time. I still think a quick one-liner saying "Jeff was banned because of some bad trading practices and poor reactions to moderation requests" would be enough, but others may want more detail which, let's face it, would be a real sod to sort out. I can't see any moral reason not to disclose the reason for a ban (it's not without precedent, think Greekman), so I'll assume that it's a time/effort thing. I'm not having a dig at the Team here, as it's not like I particularly tried to change things when I was a Mod and perhaps had the ability to chat behind the scenes, so I'm as guilty as anyone for the status quo. I don't see why we need to know - apart from being generally nosey and adding a tiny frisson of intrigue to our sad little lives Im not going to requote myself but see my post from the previous page, there is a world outside of 350Z-UK.com Liar, surely blasphemy is a reason for a ... or is it? Edited October 2, 2015 by WINKJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I also maintain that if you don't know where the lines are, how do you know when you've crossed them? The forum is run on a shoestring and by members (who, for those who are not already aware, are not paid in any form) and I dread to think what a solicitor would charge to draw up such a list, if indeed he had a fully working crystal ball, covering every potentual "line". Before this thread goes over a "line" let's wait and see what is considered the best way forward, in the interest of the forum and not just to satisfy the gossip mongers - there is more than enough scope for that on the social media sites out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Ekona: "Yes, but..." Just keeping up the work for him while he's busy doing the same on Facebook, now that you mentioned it, Colin! Edited October 2, 2015 by octet@TORQEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I also maintain that if you don't know where the lines are, how do you know when you've crossed them? The forum is run on a shoestring and by members (who, for those who are not already aware, are not paid in any form) and I dread to think what a solicitor would charge to draw up such a list, if indeed he had a fully working crystal ball, covering every potentual "line". Solicitor? Why do you need a solicitor, its a free to join car club Most forums have a list of rules, if you dont have the time to sort your own then feel free to nick mine: http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?238944-SXOC-Rules-and-Regulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Having read the previous page, I think there is a danger of over-egging the risk to the rest of the world "they ought to know etc" That is starting to put the mods into a wider role of judge and jury. Maybe the offending member learns the lesson, moves on and has a fresh start. It's not like we are offering them employment contracts or investing our life savings with them. It's only a car forum and someone has to draw the line somewhere using common sense. If the mods start publishing reasons why people are banned there is every risk they then get into another time consuming argument over points of detail and interpretation. Not worth it, in my opinion. We should just trust that the mods are reasonable, sensible people and wouldn't ban people just for the sheer hell of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Lets face it, the reason the information isn't open to the forum, is because the team doesn't want the grief and hassle of people complaining about the reason. I.e. 'WhackyWill was banned for mouthing off at such and such' Response being from the forum, But such and such is a dick, no need for the ban' or 'I've done trades with X plenty of times, never have I had not received and item etc' Let's be honest, that's the real reason, you guys don't want to Ban someone and realise it was a mistake once debated throughout the forum. That isn't a dig at the team, but that's the only reason I can think of, unless it really is a petty power trip that you want to keep this information to your self just for that. As I said, not having a dig, just stating what seems obvious to me, yet know one wants to say it, but it's an open forum, if that can't be said then what can.... If those are neither the answers then why can't the real answer be given instead of, 'closed for discussion' That's just exacerbating things... Curious about the pre-warning of the imminent ban and time to tidy up your PM's and dealings with trades. Steve got banned, but was notified a couple of hours after his ban via an email. So he had no time to finish off any PM's that were going on to other members... Now you could argue he's lying, I've not seen his emails etc, but I have no reason not to believe him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 From some comments above, a good time to remind some of: http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/69-forum-rules/ and http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/43-terms-and-conditions-of-use/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I for one am happy with a situation where some reasonable people are in charge and make decisions. A world where everyone has to debate everything ad nauseam is my worst nightmare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We should just trust that the mods are reasonable, sensible people and wouldn't ban people just for the sheer hell of it. ^^Seems the tall and short of it reading between the lines from comments from the powers that be. No one wants to question the decision, just a informative statement as to who is banned and why (in brief), thread locked end of. I also highly doubt banned members are given notice of an impending ban to "clear their desk" allowing them free reign to send abusive pm's, posts etc etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We should just trust that the mods are reasonable, sensible people and wouldn't ban people just for the sheer hell of it. ^^Seems the tall and short of it reading between the lines from comments from the powers that be. No one wants to question the decision, just a informative statement as to who is banned and why (in brief), thread locked end of. I also highly doubt banned members are given notice of an impending ban to "clear their desk" allowing them free reign to send abusive pm's, posts etc etc It's only a car forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ^^ Exactly, which works both ways, let us know rather than treating us like mushrooms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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