Zedrush Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Okay guys as some may remember I got a speeding offence notice finally arrived to me on the 6th of September (guess they were chasing me from the previous owner) stating that my car was caught on a gatsometer doing 36mph on a 30mph lane. They asked me to identify the driver of the alledged offence. Since the offence took place on the 16th June 2007 at 4.06pm, and my brother, mum, and dad have access to my car and a garage on that day (only down to an invoice dated on that day but car was collected at 1pm), I replied stating that I could not possibly identify who drove that car on that date. But had tried to ask and no one has any recollection of driving it. In response they sent me photos of the car and asked me to identify the driver from the pictures, check this out: Now again I thought Ill send them letter back stating I understand my responsibilities under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, but as is required by subsection 172(4) I believe that I have done as much as I possibly can to identify the driver, but that I have not been able, having exercised at the very least “reasonable diligence†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 At the end of the day, if you don't know who the driver is then they cant force you to give a random name! You will have to go to court and provide as much evidence as you can stating why at that time you didn't know who was driving. The receipt could help too in your case. Sounds like they got you by the go-nads, but If you can prove to the court that you genuingly didnt know who was driving then you could get away scotch free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Dunno overthere but here in Belgium it is quite simple. You as an owner are responsible for your car. Got caught speeding and your car isn't stolen? If you can't proof who drove it at the time it's the owner who has to pay the fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrush Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Dunno overthere but here in Belgium it is quite simple.You as an owner are responsible for your car. Got caught speeding and your car isn't stolen? If you can't proof who drove it at the time it's the owner who has to pay the fine. Very true but when in 2003 Detective Superintendent Adrian Roberts, head of Middlesbrough CID was unable to identify the specific driver of the vehicle in a similar offence and was let of scotts free, kinda makes you think that over here the police are above the law themselves. Kinda pisses me off a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Tough break dude. Afraid I can't offer any advice but hope it works out for you....certainly a tricky one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomoto Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 if you dont want the points and are willing to pay , find an impoverished student with a licence and bung him a couple of hundred, the cops dont mind who's driving as long as they get the fine paid...and yes it does happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I was under the impression that this a ticket/speedtrap fine is void if it takes longer than 14 days to get to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu2 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 not if they contacted the previous owner (who was still on dvla records) in those 14 days.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 ahh crap, thats no good. Just pay up dude, you were in the wrong so may as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzz... Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 my advice from someone who went down that path purely because I thought i was right and this was a bullying tactic to collect revenue... In summary... got caught in a 70 doing 85 1. I requested the photo 2. They sent it and i said I could not identify the driver and requested additional support to help me clarify this. 3. The police where uninterested and "as the owner of the vehicle it is my responsability to ID the driver at the time" 4. after several letters saying I though this was rubbish and that it was their role to identify the actual person committing any criminal activity... I declared that "as the owner of the vehicle" agree that it was my responsability to know who was driving the car... but i could not remeber therefore I took all responsability.. Next thing i get is a summons to court... I plead the same again and did not get done for speeding ( SP30, 50 etc,...) I got done for "not providing the drivers details" This cost me 250 quid 3 points and a nice MS90 code on my licence... The MS90 is interpreted by the insurance companies as "WITH-HOLDING" evidence from the police.. and a licence for insurers to print money at my expense...for the next 5 years... and half the insurances wont touch me... MORAL OF THE STORY: PAY YOUR (HIDDEN) ROAD TAX , GET THE 3 POINTS AND AN SPxx , it is better than the other possible outcome... and the European court of law threw away a claim from 2 persons saying that it was an infringement of the human rights to declare the driver of the vehicle at the time of the offence.. so you have no leg to stand on... JUST PAY ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The Times Online link was very interesting. Another thought on that track if you have points on your drivers license or against you as such, does that mean the cost of your insurance will increase?? It does in NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yes it does. What sticks in the throat of many here is that the registered owner is requested by the police to inform them of who committed the crime, or if they dont, they will get hit with more points and larger fine anyway. I wonder why they dont use that tactic on vandalism in the streets caught on CCTV? Just send a letter to the local likely target who looks most like the reprobate on the CCTV, ask them to identify the vandal - if they dont, just pin it on them anyway - simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yes it does. What sticks in the throat of many here is that the registered owner is requested by the police to inform them of who committed the crime, or if they dont, they will get hit with more points and larger fine anyway. Ah right, so a very good reason to want to sort things out then, rather than coping it if not necessary. From memory we don't get an increased fine. I think in general you get slugged more in the UK, and they are far more harsh or should I reword that and say strict, the actual driving aspect and the your insurance is definitely far more expensive, although our motorway patrol are revenue gatherers. Here stationery cameras take photos from the front for reason of identifying the driver if necessary, and believe me you hear about it all the time. Often plate mistakes, all sorts. Hope you get this sorted out Zedrush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrush Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 With the way this country is going its probably better to be a criminal than a law abiding citizen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrush Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 This gets even better,just called up DVLA to get another drivers license as sent mine of years ago for 3 points I got through for my tyre tread being out, and they said sorry your licence has been revoked said that when I sent of the details last time for my license they said that I sent werong info, but they sent me info back didnt say anything, now got to fill out a d1 form to get my licence back, what the hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 It is a farce, but thats no great surprise from the DVLA, like most large authoritive public funded bodies, they are a complete shambles. I tried to ask for self assesment forms from the inland revenue, but they refused to deal with me by phone as the information I gave them as part of the security check did not match their records - they said I would have to write in with the answers to security questions - which would have just been exactly the same, so they would still have ignored me. Turns out thy havent bothered correcting my address in the last 9 years, even though they have managed to update everything else. Now Ive got more forms than I need and tax forms from 2004 to fill in, even though I only required them for this tax year. Planks. They do however manage to update my tax code fairly swiftly. How very strange. With your licence being "revoked" according to the DVLA, how woul that affect this situation? Will the boys in blue use that as an opportunity to suggest you were driving without a licence at all!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrush Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 It is a farce, but thats no great surprise from the DVLA, like most large authoritive public funded bodies, they are a complete shambles. I tried to ask for self assesment forms from the inland revenue, but they refused to deal with me by phone as the information I gave them as part of the security check did not match their records - they said I would have to write in with the answers to security questions - which would have just been exactly the same, so they would still have ignored me. Turns out thy havent bothered correcting my address in the last 9 years, even though they have managed to update everything else. Now Ive got more forms than I need and tax forms from 2004 to fill in, even though I only required them for this tax year. Planks. They do however manage to update my tax code fairly swiftly. How very strange. With your licence being "revoked" according to the DVLA, how woul that affect this situation? Will the boys in blue use that as an opportunity to suggest you were driving without a licence at all!? Thats exactly it, they would say driving without a license thats a ban The woman said all you need to do it fill out a D1 form and you will have a license back within 2 weeks. I said thats bloody great I said I wasnt even told I didnt have a license, they said we would of sent a letter sir, I said I didnt get a letter did you send recorded?? They said sorry sir we would of sent one no not recorded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 So the DVLA send out notifications of licences being revoked without any record being made that the person has received the notification?! Leaving the distinct possibility that drivers could be out there without licences through no perceived fault of their own. You couldn't write this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrush Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 So the DVLA send out notifications of licences being revoked without any record being made that the person has received the notification?! Leaving the distinct possibility that drivers could be out there without licences through no perceived fault of their own. You couldn't write this stuff. My whole family are now checking their and are worried, just found out was my sister who drove on that day as I was in reading with my mum, thank god for that now to get my licence back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I wonder why they dont use that tactic on vandalism in the streets caught on CCTV? Just send a letter to the local likely target who looks most like the reprobate on the CCTV, ask them to identify the vandal - if they dont, just pin it on them anyway - simple That analogy doesn't hold up, and you know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 True - its the best I could think of at the time though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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