Ekona Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not an atheist, I'm quite happily Christian. I also believe that science doesn't mitigate belief/religion, I think it enhances it and they can coexist and well together. How? For the most part, they are complete opposites. I struggle to think of any examples where they complement each other, could you elaborate on this further? Thanks for joining in btw, I really do appreciate someone looking at this from the other side 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I would argue that one reason religions exist is because we have evolved to have cognitive thought and not able to fully understand everything so we 'plugged' the gaps with religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Atheism is not a belief system. It's not believing in gods. That's it. As for who can be proved right, well the burden of proof lies with the ones making the claim, that being that there is a god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) I'm not an atheist, I'm quite happily Christian. I also believe that science doesn't mitigate belief/religion, I think it enhances it and they can coexist and well together. How? For the most part, they are complete opposites. I struggle to think of any examples where they complement each other, could you elaborate on this further? Thanks for joining in btw, I really do appreciate someone looking at this from the other side No problem, I know you guys are a decent bunch so I don't mind "sticking my neck out" Well science (I'm an engineer by trade, and a keen physicist) is based on many theories, many of which are regularly debunked, proven or dis-proven, or evolved. So it isn't an exact science. Religion does the same from a more philosophical point of view, asking questions, pondering, trying to understand the world. Science cannot prove the existence of religion or "God" or "Mother Nature" or "the Force" or anything like that, but neither can it disprove it - which makes it a stalemate from a tit for tat point of view. There are some things that currently our knowledge, our science just cannot answer. Sometimes, even with the help of science, one needs a little "faith" in things - sure, it could be luck, it could be positive mental attitude, allowing the correct synapses to trigger in your brain allowing the perfect neurological connections to allow you to make the correct decision... these are all suppositions. If science cannot answer "why are we here", then religion gives you the comfort or the reinforcement of why we are here, or whilst we are here let's try and achieve x,y or z. Some of the greatest scientists were religious people, that did not stop them from being amazing physicists, chemists etc... For example, I studied astronomy for a while, and loved star gazing, and obviously the question of "what's on edge of the universe" question comes up. We can't answer it. We don't even have the science capable of understanding what happens, so drawing on faith one could believe that we are just not supposed to know and just accept we are where we are and take comfort in that. I'm not a creationist by the way. I had a conversation with militant type a while back, and the post would take me an hour to type up. I didn't poo poo his ideology/belief, but even I "lost my faith" in following what he was saying., Does that reflect on me not being strong in my beliefs? Or does that reflect that we have been gifted with enough scientific capability to accept that we are older than the Christian faith? After all, 2014 years ago, could have just been a second, third, fourth, etc.. coming but is the only one we have bothered to accept as the truth? I don't know, and I am conflicted too. However, without my faith I would feel a poorer person, it gives me strength, and comfort, compassion and empathy that I could easily forget in this aggressive, materialistic and somewhat shallow day and age. I know that doesn't really answer your question perfectly, but it hopefully helps give you a better perspective, I will try and answer a bit more clearly when I'm not trying to juggle work too! Atheism is not a belief system. It's not believing in gods. That's it. As for who can be proved right, well the burden of proof lies with the ones making the claim, that being that there is a god. It is to me and the way I see it, Atheists believe that there are no gods, or anything other than black and white "science". It's a belief structure. Agnosticism is less of a belief structure and more of an ambivalent, "willing to be convinced", accepts science, but accepts that there may be more to the world than we can possible conceive. Isn't that a fair comment? I would argue that one reason religions exist is because we have evolved to have cognitive thought and not able to fully understand everything so we 'plugged' the gaps with religion. I wouldn't disagree with that comment. Edited November 14, 2014 by wmr1980 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=atheist%20definition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yes it is a belief structure as you so eruditely pointed out "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods." Lack of belief is a belief structure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 You make the mistake many people make. An atheist does not necessarily say "there are no gods". That would be a ridiculous claim that cannot be proven. However, what we do say is "I don't believe there are any gods because it has not been proven otherwise". There is a subtle but definite difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 You make the mistake many people make. An atheist does not necessarily say "there are no gods". That would be a ridiculous claim that cannot be proven. However, what we do say is "I don't believe there are any gods because it has not been proven otherwise". There is a subtle but definite difference. So would you go as far to say you don't believe in Aliens/Life on another planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 No I would say that there most likely is life on other planets. I'm missing the point of your question though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Speaking of life on other planets, this is a very interesting article 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 It's good that wmr1980 has joined the thread. I was hoping someone could put forward some of the points my father might have made had he still been here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Speaking of life on other planets, this is a very interesting article I do hope we're ahead of the great filter but I think not! We all gonna be FUBAR'd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Does make you wonder, doesn't it? I'm not entirely sure where we sit, if I'm honest. I read that last night quite late so it was a bit much to take in just before bed, but I found it very intriguing nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Speaking of life on other planets, this is a very interesting article Yes, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Does make you wonder, doesn't it? I'm not entirely sure where we sit, if I'm honest. I read that last night quite late so it was a bit much to take in just before bed, but I found it very intriguing nonetheless. Yeah, really good site, love it. I wish I had that level of cognitive ability!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Speaking of life on other planets, this is a very interesting article Thanks for posting that. Hadna skim read looks really interesting right up my street. Will give it a proper peruse this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Science looks for the answers to "why" which usually takes a route of creation. Religion also, in the grand scheme of things, looks for god, the creator. If science looks for creation i.e. Higgs Boson you could say that in terms of science, that is god. Hence it's name "the god particle". Essentially religion and science look for one and the same thing just with different eyes. Simples! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Science looks for the answers to "why" which usually takes a route of creation. Religion also, in the grand scheme of things, looks for god, the creator. If science looks for creation i.e. Higgs Boson you could say that in terms of science, that is god. Hence it's name "the god particle". Essentially religion and science look for one and the same thing just with different eyes. Simples! Religion doesn't look for god though does it, people just assume God is there?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Exactly. Religion claims that god exists, without providing any evidence to support its claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Speaking of life on other planets, this is a very interesting article yeah, that was really interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Science looks for the answers to "why" which usually takes a route of creation. Religion also, in the grand scheme of things, looks for god, the creator. If science looks for creation i.e. Higgs Boson you could say that in terms of science, that is god. Hence it's name "the god particle". Essentially religion and science look for one and the same thing just with different eyes. Simples! Religion doesn't look for god though does it, people just assume God is there?? They assume god is there, but secretly or unconsiously, religion does look for god. In the sense that it looks for the reason why we are here, why we were created. That is looking for god, which is the reason of why to everything. There are so many versions of Christianity under it's umbrella because, there is no real definitive answer. It's open to interpretation. Every version of Christianity is looking for god. If people really, truly, honestly, believed in God, there wouldn't be a need to go to church. To be constantly convinced each week that yes, there is one. The question is, just what is god? Relgion doesn't really give an answer. Edited November 14, 2014 by Rock_Steady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 No I would say that there most likely is life on other planets. I'm missing the point of your question though... But why? There is the same amount of evidence for life on another planet as there is that god exists? I.e. Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) No I would say that there most likely is life on other planets. I'm missing the point of your question though... But why? There is the same amount of evidence for life on another planet as there is that god exists? I.e. Zero. But if we're here, that is a suggestion that something else might be out there. I mean why not? Like I said, we are here. We're evidence that it's possible. The same can't be said for god. Or at least at the moment anyway. Edited November 14, 2014 by Rock_Steady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 No I would say that there most likely is life on other planets. I'm missing the point of your question though... But why? There is the same amount of evidence for life on another planet as there is that god exists? I.e. Zero. There may not be any evidence of life on other planets, but the laws of probability suggest there most likely is. For me I think it's reasonable to think that of the trillions of planets out there, this is probably not the only one to have life on it. To say that something is probable based on what we already know and can observe, is very different from saying something is true because I just think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 No I would say that there most likely is life on other planets. I'm missing the point of your question though... But why? There is the same amount of evidence for life on another planet as there is that god exists? I.e. Zero. But if we're here, that is a suggestion that something else might be out there. I mean why not? Like I said, we are here. We're evidence that it's possible. The same can't be said for god. Or at least at the moment anyway. I just think we're too insignificant to suggest there isn't a possibility of some supreme being out there. Just think we're naive to discard something because we don't have proof. #teamtarmac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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