-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I sat long and hard to think about what i actually believe in this world and do you know what conclusion i came too... no me neither. im far too laid back to give a @*!# about anything haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This is a really crap debate with some stupid comments.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This is a really crap debate with some stupid comments.... And you expected some other outcome to a thread entitled Atheism, in fact any thread with even a slightly contentious title will always degenerate into a heated debate or mindless humour...this is a car forum after all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Most religeons started when different tribes were living in villages. Some liked to burn things, others saw animals as deity. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This is a really crap debate with some stupid comments.... Crap Debate Stupid Comments whos impersonating me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 There are a lot of Stevo comments going around The point is there, but the logic and the way some of you are trying to portray your thoughts are just terrible I.e. You are right, but for all the wrong reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm an Atheist, and I also despise religion and the affect it has on the world. People can believe in what ever fairy tales they like as long as they keep to themselves and out of politics, law, etc. Think logically about the claims that religion makes I fail to see how anyone can possibly believe it. Gods described in holy books are evil murderous b******s and why anyone would wish them to be real and kiss their ass is beyond me. If I'm wrong about the existence of gods then I just hope Hitchens has had a chance to kick him in the bollocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 On religion - Ive actually actively stopped going to churches for anything other than weddings and funerals, I genuinely find myself getting angry at the contradictions ("your life is preordained by God but you have freedom of choice") and some totally outdated and terrible advice on things like homosexuality, forgiveness and keeping love in your heart (whatever that means) and Ive actually walked out recently. Ive had a few people accuse me of being disrespectful but once I expain they understand. Generally I totally see the point of it when there was an uncontrolled and uneducated populace, either as education on rights and wrongs or if you're a cynic a way of collecting tax but in the modern day it doesnt have a place, we are much more self aware and educated now and the 2000 year old writings of some dudes are at best outdated and at worst downright wrong. The fact that people will tell me that Im wrong in the way I choose to live my life because they take this outdated and unproven advice to be correct is downright scary. Why the hell should I live my life denying myself pleasures and experiences because a man in sandals decided it was bad 2000 years ago? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Ive actually actively stopped going to churches for anything other than weddings and funerals Earlier in the year I attended christening. I was reluctant to go but caved in the end. It was totally cringe worthy and even maddening. The crap that's spouted is just unbelievable. These were not even religious parents either, which begs the question why would they even have their child christened in the first place. I have now vowed never to attend any kind of religious ceremony again. I can't bear to listen to it again. EDIT: Angry typos Edited November 11, 2014 by JB-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 On religion - Ive actually actively stopped going to churches for anything other than weddings and funerals, I genuinely find myself getting angry at the contradictions ("your life is preordained by God but you have freedom of choice") and some totally outdated and terrible advice on things like homosexuality, forgiveness and keeping love in your heart (whatever that means) and Ive actually walked out recently. Ive had a few people accuse me of being disrespectful but once I expain they understand. Generally I totally see the point of it when there was an uncontrolled and uneducated populace, either as education on rights and wrongs or if you're a cynic a way of collecting tax but in the modern day it doesnt have a place, we are much more self aware and educated now and the 2000 year old writings of some dudes are at best outdated and at worst downright wrong. The fact that people will tell me that Im wrong in the way I choose to live my life because they take this outdated and unproven advice to be correct is downright scary. Why the hell should I live my life denying myself pleasures and experiences because a man in sandals decided it was bad 2000 years ago? Who is telling you how to live? Who are 'they' ? I know plenty of people who are religious who are fine with how I live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Who is telling you how to live? Who are 'they' ? They are the lizard men. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveyboy11 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Who is telling you how to live? Who are 'they' ? They are the lizard men. 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) I know that drinking, blasphemy, watching porn, staring at girls, swearing, taking the mickey, blatant self indulgence and thinking the Bible is a load of crap arent exactly virtues and I do most of them at least once an hour, if not more. Ive discussed this with devotees, mainly Christian TBF and none of them approve of my lifestyle choices or my comments about Christianity, its innate hypocrisy and its outdated life advice and the response is either to tell me that the Im wrong because the lord is all powerful and all knowing, or to actually become angry about it if they will discuss it at all. The fact that everything I do is for my own comfort and benefit first and foremost and that Im open about it is not something they seem comfortable with, unlike Bhuddism for instance (which I think is a lot more in tune with society today) Basically, Christianity is a big list of stuff you cant do, rather than spiritual guidance on how to get the best out of life like it should be. Edited November 11, 2014 by docwra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm an atheist too . People can believe in whatever they want to but for me religion is born out of a fear of death. People want to think they go to another place after they die. Having said that I do think that churches, cathedrals etc are beautiful places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Nobody has mentioned that the bulk of beliefs are patriarchal and revolve around powerful men. A coincidence, of course not and another indicator of the human element. Christianity's current form harks back to Constantine and social engineering, hijacking the then paganistic festivals to ease transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Belief systems have always been about transition, previous systems were far more barbaric than say Christianity and to be fair it's no surprise that advanced societies are now starting to transition from religion to fact based ideology. I did see a post saying evolution was a theory,that's not technically true as evolution happens and is still happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Nobody has mentioned that the bulk of beliefs are patriarchal and revolve around powerful men. A coincidence, of course not and another indicator of the human element. Christianity's current form harks back to Constantine and social engineering, hijacking the then paganistic festivals to ease transition. Actually, I mentioned subjugation of women in my first post, which is a similar theme. I can think of a number of religions which seem to to treat women as second class citizens and try to control them. Coldel - Fair point - I've got no problem with people who practice their faith without trying to tell the rest of us what to do. Some of us are criticising religion in general rather than people who have religious beliefs. It's not the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This is a really crap debate with some stupid comments.... Come on then, impress us all with a really good contribution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm gonna make my own religion. The god is a giant woman like on futurama she demands snu snu when she likes and has an epic holy drift car. To go to heaven you have to shred at least 500 sets of tyres in your life and when you get there. You wont ever have to xhange tyres you have unlimited tread!! Girls at your feet 24/7. When you go to hell you have to change your tyres manually and are only allowed 2 women. And it will become real because i will right a book on it so that makes it real right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB-) Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Stupid phone! Or a sign from god 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Apologies sipar I missed that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) And just to throw a spanner in the works here, evolution, the big bang etc etc are all theories, not fact. Guess what else is a theory. Religion. Religion, of any flavour, is not a theory. Pinched from Wiki, as that explains it better than my effort: A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. Absolutely none of that applies to religion. It is faith, based upon nothing tangible but (usually) what you told as a little kid. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the massive majority of people have their faith chosen for them when they are young, as opposed to choosing it for themselves. Bizarrely they quickly discover that neither the Tooth Fairy nor Santa Claus are real, but continue to believe in the presence of an omnipotent being. The irony being of course that both the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus are very real and very provable, just keep an eye open in the night for when your parents come in! Would I call someone stupid or thick or choosing to believe? No, I wouldn't. Would I think it? Well, I certainly would struggle to put them at the top of Dan's List Of Smart People, put it that way. That said, each to their own. Apologies if this link has already been posted, but again it sums it up far better than I ever could. Edited November 11, 2014 by Ekona 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 And just to throw a spanner in the works here, evolution, the big bang etc etc are all theories, not fact. Guess what else is a theory. Religion. Religion, of any flavour, is not a theory. Pinched from Wiki, as that explains it better than my effort: A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. Absolutely none of that applies to religion. It is faith, based upon nothing tangible but (usually) what you told as a little kid. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the massive majority of people have their faith chosen for them when they are young, as opposed to choosing it for themselves. Bizarrely they quickly discover that neither the Tooth Fairy nor Santa Claus are real, but continue to believe in the presence of an omnipotent being. The irony being of course that both the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus are very real and very provable, just keep an eye open in the night for when your parents come in! Would I call someone stupid or thick or choosing to believe? No, I wouldn't. Would I think it? Well, I certainly would struggle to put them at the top of Dan's List Of Smart People, put it that way. That said, each to their own. Apologies if this link has already been posted, but again it sums it up far better than I ever could. I understand what makes a scientific theory, a theory as we know it, but the reason it's a theory is because it hasn't been proven or can not be proven, otherwise it would be a scientific law. Religion/gods etc also can not be proven or disproven and all the "evidence" we have is a very old book made up of many other books/writings. Anyway, my point is not to support religion, as I don't believe in it myself, but it had it's place in history and making the world what it is today. It's not perfect, but who knows what state we'd be in without it. Changing the education system and beliefs of billions of people doesn't happen overnight and will take several generations to filter out of the mainstream. My only problem is people on their high horses calling those who have faith names and having a superiority complex because they believe they are smarter because they have no faith. It's pathetic really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) I certainly don't allude to being smarter than a believer. A large proportion of them are academic to a level far beyond my puny intellect . I would say that a logical thinker in essence attempts to stay neutral so as not to offend. A decent human being is empathic to those around them and as such will tolerate others beliefs.Tolerance is one thing but indoctrination is another matter altogether. Yes you are right by saying it will take generations to filter out faith systems I totally agree. Edited November 12, 2014 by Zeezeebaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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