Atheism.

[JB-)]

Just think we're naive to discard something because we don't have proof.

 

I'd argue the opposite, why believe something for which there is no evidence? Do you believe in unicorns? Leprechauns? Fairies? We have no evidence for those but not many people believe they exist.

[Rock_Steady]

I agree with you to a point Grundy. I'm not from house of " if I can't see it, I can't believe it " I can't see oxygen but I know it's there.

[Rock_Steady]

Just think we're naive to discard something because we don't have proof.

 

I'd argue the opposite, why believe something for which there is no evidence? Do you believe in unicorns? Leprechauns? Fairies? We have no evidence for those but not many people believe they exist.

or the loch ness monster for example. No loch ness pooh... no loch ness monster. Bigfoot. You'd think in 44 years of searching, a hunter would've tripped over a carcass of it, but no.

[wmr1980]

It depends on what sort of evidence you want to believe. The Fibonacci sequence in nature seems almost too "perfect" Some would argue for example.

 

There is no evidence for love, but people love and have truly altruistic behaviour. There is no evidence of what parts of our brains are responsible for consciousness or memory, and whilst the myth of the 10% usage of the brain is just a myth, we also don't know what a lot of our brains do. Does that mean that it is filled with nothing? There is no evidence of other life around the universe, but we have no understanding of how that can be, if we believe that through pure maths and probability there are other intelligent beings elsewhere they're may be more evolved, are they more God like to us? We are at the top of the food chain on earth because of our brains and our knowledge and how we have used our intelligence, do animals regard us as gods?

 

Just because you cannot document a cause and effect does not mean it doesn't exist. You do not need to have tangible evidence for something to exist. It can get quite philosophical but even taking quantum mechanics into question, it becomes so complex that our understanding as human beings becomes impossible because we haven't got the capacity for it. So we have to take a leap of faith and make assumptions, physics and maths is filled with assumptions and 'rules' if those rules are broken or changed the whole fabric of our knowledge unravels. Having a basic faith in something greater than ourselves means that it doesn't get broken, as it is a pure belief rather tan a proven fact, which can be debunked or disproven.

 

I'm not saying I'm right, or that my answers are correct, but I think it is too arrogant to assume and or close any possibility and having my faith helps enhance my understanding of the world around me rather than closing off certain aspects of the world. I'd rather assume that things are possible, than impossible.

 

One person's magic is another persons theory, one person's faith is another scientific fact and so on. I think attaching ourselves so strongly on having black and white evidence is as dangerous as blindly following a faith. Challenging things and being sure in what it means is important.

 

 

[JB-)]

So since you have no evidence that your chosen god exists, firstly, what was it that convinced you that any god exists? Then, what made you choose yours? What made you choose Christianity over say, Islam or Hinduism? Why do you reject those faiths and gods over your own? I realise that there is an overlap here and that different religions are often just different versions or explanations for the same god, but surely only one version can be the right one or none at all.

[Ekona]

I get how religion was a powerful tool in the days of old, when mankind pretty much knew nothing.

 

Now we do, I struggle with the concept that any person can have faith based on nothing more than what their parents taught them.

[Grundy]

WMR wins because he used the word Quantum in a sentence. /thread

 

 

So since you have no evidence that your chosen god exists, firstly, what was it that convinced you that any god exists? Then, what made you choose yours? What made you choose Christianity over say, Islam or Hinduism? Why do you reject those faiths and gods over your own? I realise that there is an overlap here and that different religions are often just different versions or explanations for the same god, but surely only one version can be the right one or none at all.

For me, I don't believe in a specific religion. But I like to think there is something out there.

[wmr1980]

I don't reject others. Their gods have spoken to them in different ways. In a way embracing multiple deities makes sense. God of love war nature etc.... For me through having an understanding of polytheism has allowed me to form my interpretation and understanding of Christianity it suits my lifestyle and gives me the focus and life enhancement that I need.

 

One of my cousins has become Buddhist as he had a life altering experience and he found enlightenment through what Buddhism brings to him. Others have shunned religion altogether but embraced spirituality.

 

We don't argue about it as it is a deeply personal thing. For me it isn't about being right or wrong but so long as my faith gives me guidance and strength I will hold onto it.

 

Furthermore I love the sense of community I get from our church. I know many of my neighbourhood now as a result. Have done more charity work than I would do otherwise as well as volunteer work that I would never do. I feel now it is part of my responsibility. I also pick up my elderly members of the congregation to get them to church on Sunday. It's all these small things that help me feel more integrated in my local community and in society as a whole. I don't get anything back from it, I don't want anything for it. It is something I enjoy doing.

 

In spite of being pro Arab I spent time in Jewish schools pro bono helping with some refurb work that my friend's company was doing. I helped in a call centre for the Palestine crisis too.

 

One would assume you look after your own but I don't believe that is what Christianity is about. Its about being there for anyone.

Edited November 14, 2014 by wmr1980

[WhackyWill]

This is very funny..

 

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/crackpot.php

[Grundy]

Dude you've said Quantum, you've won! You no longer need to say anything else

[JB-)]

I don't reject others. Their gods have spoken to them in different ways. In a way embracing multiple deities makes sense. God of love war nature etc.... For me through having an understanding of polytheism has allowed me to form my interpretation and understanding of Christianity it suits my lifestyle and gives me the focus and life enhancement that I need.

 

This makes no sense. How can you be a Christian, believing that the bible is the word of god, and then say that all the other gods exist too. Do you therefore accept that all 2800 or so deities exist? And I'm sorry but the true word of god should be open to interpretation.

 

It's commendable that your faith has lead you to do good things and that you get so much out of it, as many people do I'm sure, but the faith and belief system itself make no sense at all*

 

*To me

[JB-)]

Dude you've said Quantum, you've won! You no longer need to say anything else

 

It's not about winning or losing, just trying to understand alternative viewpoints

[Grundy]

Dude you've said Quantum, you've won! You no longer need to say anything else

 

It's not about winning or losing, just trying to understand alternative viewpoints

Yup, because I was being deadly serious on 'Quantum' being the answer to all religious questions

[AliveBoy]

Don't understand how this thread is still going

 

Here's a special one just for this thread:

[JB-)]

Dude you've said Quantum, you've won! You no longer need to say anything else

 

It's not about winning or losing, just trying to understand alternative viewpoints

Yup, because I was being deadly serious on 'Quantum' being the answer to all religious questions

 

I was just being clear that I'm personally not out to prove anyone right or wrong, just explain and understand different points of view.

 

Although I am right

[Grundy]

Dude you've said Quantum, you've won! You no longer need to say anything else

 

It's not about winning or losing, just trying to understand alternative viewpoints

Yup, because I was being deadly serious on 'Quantum' being the answer to all religious questions

 

I was just being clear that I'm personally not out to prove anyone right or wrong, just explain and understand different points of view.

 

Although I am right

Right about what though, their being no god? (Grammar nazi's fudge off please, this their i'm not too sure about )

[JB-)]

Right about what though, their being no god? (Grammar nazi's fudge off please, this their i'm not too sure about )

 

I believe so yes, but I couldn't possibly claim to know that there is no god, and I wouldn't agree with anyone who does. The fact is that it could never be proven. However, I don't believe for one second that there is. No creator, and most certainty no god of any religion or holy book. Of course if anyone can prove there is a god then I'd gladly change my mind.

[Grundy]

I just think it's a boring way of looking at things...Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

 

I'm too open minded (Again can't stress enough, I'm not religious, I hate it and think its BS ) But at the same time I like to think their is a purpose and their is something else out there. (did I get the Their/There's right?)

 

 

I'd quite like it to end up we all live in the Matrix although with a better ending.

[AliveBoy]

What if, please stop me if I'm getting crazy, there is more to life than arguing about an ultimate "controller" of all life via a car forum? :scare: :scare:

[Ekona]

If there is, then I don't want to live any more.

[JB-)]

What if, please stop me if I'm getting crazy, there is more to life than arguing about an ultimate "controller" of all life via a car forum? :scare: :scare:

 

There is but this is better than working.

[sipar69]

Thread still going I see and still nobody's responded to the point about how unfavourable the main organised religions are to women compared to men (unless I've missed it).

 

It's good to see that there have been some rational responses in defence of religion, but I wish people would try to get the message that Atheism is an absence of belief. Anti-theism is the most appropriate term for being anti-religion.

[wmr1980]

I don't reject others. Their gods have spoken to them in different ways. In a way embracing multiple deities makes sense. God of love war nature etc.... For me through having an understanding of polytheism has allowed me to form my interpretation and understanding of Christianity it suits my lifestyle and gives me the focus and life enhancement that I need.

 

This makes no sense. How can you be a Christian, believing that the bible is the word of god, and then say that all the other gods exist too. Do you therefore accept that all 2800 or so deities exist? And I'm sorry but the true word of god should be open to interpretation.

 

It's commendable that your faith has lead you to do good things and that you get so much out of it, as many people do I'm sure, but the faith and belief system itself make no sense at all*

 

*To me

 

I may not be the best Christian, and I never claim to be, I err, I am merely human! Yes the bible is quite clear in that there is no other God, just like in Islam, la ilaha illallah, Similarly in Judaism. Ultimately they are based on the same beliefs just interpreted differently. If I were a militant Christian I'd say the rest are heretics, but as a good Christian I don't believe in shunning other religions, and I believe it is my duty as a good Christian to embrace that and help make Christianity more progressive in its behaviour. The church is turning around, we have lady priests, and whilst some gospels are interpreted very literally I also believe just like poetry there can be underlining meanings and there isn't one true interpretation. I guess this is why religion becomes such a personal thing. Does this mean that I am right and other Christians are wrong? No idea. I'm not that conceited to believe that. Likewise I don't believe in hell, or God the smiter - does that make me a heretic? It shouldn't do,because projecting your beliefs onto others is unfair.

 

I guess I could be called a progressive modern Christian rather than old school. The core beliefs are still integral and apply, but the interpretation is more open minded. Would you accept that?

 

Anyway of those other deities, there is always one alpha, in Greek mythology Zeus was the king/father of the Gods so it could just be that ultimately God is known by all but in different names? I don't know, I don't mind either.

 

Put it this way, when I see compassion, charity and benevolence in the most adverse and extreme situations, I see signs of something more powerful than can be tangibly explained. Is that God I am seeing? I don't know, but I'd like to believe that there is some influence guiding those people to something greater.

 

I know this is very wish washy especially to people who have no interest or belief in this, but I'm a bit more pragmatic in how I interpret things, at lest I'd like to hope. Does that make me non Christian? I'd hope not, as I feel that Christianity is an inclusive religion, behaviour and way of life. Hopefully you don't think that I am some weird daft tree hugging idiot at the same time, but I am not here to convince you otherwise or make you think I am right or wrong - all I can do is share with you my take on it and my behaviour on what works for me. I hit rock bottom and I was given a sign, pulled my socks up and rekindled my faith since then and I am where I am now. It is rather personal , and it's s not that I don't love you all, but it was a grim part of my life hence why I'm not sharing too much. Perhaps it was Desperation, and perhaps I am brainwashed into thinking that if I shun my beliefs I will hit rock bottom again, but either way it gives me so much and enriches my life that I wouldn't want to be without it. Perhaps I am weak? Maybe that's why I hit the gym so much! However this is rather personally how I feel on the subject.

 

I hope you feel this is acceptable. I would never try and convince you otherwise, but we all hold onto some bits of faith, whether or not religious or not, it is just how we interpret that faith, be it science, Krispy Kreme doughnuts or even religion.

[sipar69]

wmr180 I respect your views but I would say that when I see charity, compassion etc I'm seeing the best sides of human nature. I don't think we have to look for alternative sources and perhaps by doing so we lessen the meaning of the acts by transferring the motivation away from the person and onto a (fictional in my view) higher power. Can't we just celebrate that people are capable of very moral and selfless acts?

[Flex]

Do you think Islam & Christianity have the same roots, most of there prophets are in the bible aren't they? Even Jesus was one of their prophets wasnt he? I may have miss heard some stuff in the past but that's what I understood.