leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It wasn't all sunshine at H Devs yesterday. When got there, they could smell oil burning (I'd thought it was the new clutch as that's when it started). Once the car was in the air, Jez noticed that the drain plug was half way out, oil was all over the gearbox and the gaitor was ripped on the bottom of the selector! Luckily, there was plenty of oil left in the gearbox as we suspect it had been overfilled so no damage was done. Jez cleaned the mess up and checked the oil levels, he only charged me £20 which I insisted on and was hoping the company that fitted my clutch would cover. I emailed the photos below to the manager and informed of everything that had happened. This was his response: Without Prejudice Good Afternoon Lee, Thank you for bring this to my attention. I have spoken to the technician with regards to your car and he assures me the drain plug was tightened to the correct torque according to Autodata, the main thing is that there was no damage to your gearbox. As regards to the selector cover this was already in the condition it is now, but easily have been advised on the report. All i can do is apologize to you, and emphasize again to my technicians to report ALL faults on the vehicles they work on, which is already a company policy. As a gesture of good will, and for customer relations if you purchase a gaitor cover i will fit it free of charge for you. Please give me a call to arrange this when you have the part. Thank you for taking the time to email me. My response: Thanks for the prompt reply. I appreciate the gesture of goodwill but I don't think I would feel confident in having the part fitted until I've established the reason for the plug coming out the gearbox. I will ask on the uk 350z owners club to find out if this has ever happened before or if it's even plausible to come loose from correct torque in such a short amount of time from when I had the new hose fitted as they would have spotted it then if it had already come loose. I will also keep checking the plug myself to see if it works loose. If the plug doesn't work loose again now that I know it was tightened correctly and it turns out to be one of only times this has happened to a 350z, I'm sure you would agree the more likely explanation would be that the technician missed plug as well as the gaitor which we've already agreed was missed. On the other hand if it turns out to the plug can work itself loose, please accept my apologies in advance. I will let you know. So, can the plug come loose? Or how likely is it VS human error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In my experience I have never encountered a loose gearbox filler/drain plug, in fact most that I have changed the oil on have needed a hefty breaker bar to shift them, so I agree that its was down to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Let me guess, the plug was hand tight? The tech clearly wound it in by hand to stop him losing it, then forgot to tighten it up. Human error it happens, it's frustrating but no-one's perfect. The tech does not want to own up so tells his boss he did tighten it, boss has no choice but to accept his word and so then comes back to you. If it were me, I would CALL HIM (no email), put on a nice smiley voice and just suggest that's what happened. Tell him you're not that bothered, that mistakes do happen but no serious damage was done, and suggest to him that he purchases and fits the gaitor for you and you'll call it a good job and will be back in the future. If you go postal at this point he won't offer you any more, so I'd play super nice just to get the result I wanted. People respond better to compliments and pleasantness than when customers get stroppy. Stroppy can work, but I use it as a last resort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Surely that is the fill plug and the drain plug is by the "L" in your "Oil Everywhere" note - see pic lifted off Google? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well spotted. Probably just screwed in a bit while the tech went to put the bottle of oil back in the cupboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the replies. Sorry, fill or drain plug though, it's the same result, an oily mess that could have gotten really expensive. I'd rather put things in an email as I can say everything with a clear head rather than over the phone where I'm more likely to get annoyed if he keep saying the tech tightened it to the correct torque. Besides if he chooses to not offer me a fair resolution, one bad customer experience can go a long way. I can easily just start with a Google business review linking to the pictures, that would have put me off using them and I'm sure it would others. I don't want to go that route but it's always option should they continue with the 'the drain plug was tightened to the correct torque according to Autodata' excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Gearbox drain and level plugs will not work loose if tightened to the correct torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If you won't even call the guy to have a civil conversation with him, then you're not going to get anywhere. He's not going to back down from here, so if you won't do a bit of acting to get your desired result, then I'm not sure what you really expect to happen? Actually, what DO you want to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Just bare in mind that you have told him you will be asking the question on this owners club. If the dealer has any sense he'll be reading this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Just bare in mind that you have told him you will be asking the question on this owners club. If the dealer has any sense he'll be reading this thread. Exactly what I was just thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the replies. Sorry, fill or drain plug though, it's the same result, an oily mess that could have gotten really expensive. The loose filler plug as undobtedly after this: I agree but that's why asked here first. If it was something more Z specific, I wouldn't hesitate but you'd think a clutch specialist should be able to fit a clutch without messing it up. Anyway, I got the car back today. The new clutch feels great, low biting point and loads of grip. Just super smooth. I would recommend a1-clutches. Fitted flywheel, clutch, slave, clutch line and molyslip for £250 and threw in some brake fluid. Putting the molyslip in. and then you told us early October about a burning smell - presuming it was the new clutch, which I suspect was the beginning of the oil leak. Fortunately it was the filler leaking rather than than the drain plug as chances are you wouldn't have had any oil left in the gearbox by now and that could have been curtains for the box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 If you won't even call the guy to have a civil conversation with him, then you're not going to get anywhere. He's not going to back down from here, so if you won't do a bit of acting to get your desired result, then I'm not sure what you really expect to happen? Actually, what DO you want to happen? I don't see what's wrong with an email especially if you know you'll be disagreeing, it's better to have a record of what both parties say. I sent an email in the first place because I wanted to show the photos. I've no issue with speaking to the manager, I've already been back twice, once because I thought the new clutch was noisy and another time to have the clutch bled and an OEM hose fitted instead of SS one. Then I did call or went it in to see him. This time is a bit different because I knew I'd be basically saying his guy didn't tightened the bolt, he'd be saying he did. From that point, you can just go back and forth, or if you're communicating via email, it's easier to point at links and include info as to whether or not the plug can come loose after being tightened correctly. As for the manager seeing this thread, I'll be linking to it anyway. What do I want to happen? I want the £20 for cleaning up the mess that they should admit their tech is responsible for. Also supply the new gaitor (I'll get it fitted elsewhere after all this), they were under my car twice for a long time working on that area. Jez spotted it in 2 minutes. How are they sure it was already in this condition? (as he stated in the email response) and if so then surely they would have told me... just seems a little weird. I'm just going to link to this post to prove the what common sense would tell anyone, the plug can't unscrew itself and then it's up to them to decide what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well, good luck. You have zero proof he didn't tighten the plug though. Yes, it's very very very unlikely, but it's now your word against his. Are you prepared to go to court over this? Someone's gotta buckle at some point here. Given the fact you've already said you're not going back there, it's not like he's going to lose a customer any way if he doesn't back down at this point. Sorry bud, but I can't see you winning this one. If the owner backs down then fair play to him: I'm not sure I would at this point. I'd have done it much earlier and sucked it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If you won't even call the guy to have a civil conversation with him, then you're not going to get anywhere. He's not going to back down from here, so if you won't do a bit of acting to get your desired result, then I'm not sure what you really expect to happen? Actually, what DO you want to happen? I don't see what's wrong with an email especially if you know you'll be disagreeing, it's better to have a record of what both parties say. I sent an email in the first place because I wanted to show the photos. I've no issue with speaking to the manager, I've already been back twice, once because I thought the new clutch was noisy and another time to have the clutch bled and an OEM hose fitted instead of SS one. Then I did call or went it in to see him. This time is a bit different because I knew I'd be basically saying his guy didn't tightened the bolt, he'd be saying he did. From that point, you can just go back and forth, or if you're communicating via email, it's easier to point at links and include info as to whether or not the plug can come loose after being tightened correctly. As for the manager seeing this thread, I'll be linking to it anyway. What do I want to happen? I want the £20 for cleaning up the mess that they should admit their tech is responsible for. Also supply the new gaitor (I'll get it fitted elsewhere after all this), they were under my car twice for a long time working on that area. Jez spotted it in 2 minutes. How are they sure it was already in this condition? (as he stated in the email response) and if so then surely they would have told me... just seems a little weird. I'm just going to link to this post to prove the what common sense would tell anyone, the plug can't unscrew itself and then it's up to them to decide what to do. Basically what Dan is saying is that (with respect) everyone HATES a keyboard warrior. A phone call establishes a personal connection between you both, one that subsequently ( unless dealing with a *****) allows empathy and reason to enter the conversation. Also if you can keyboard warrior him.......then he can keyboard warrior you because that ends his part of the conversation. If your on the phone someone has to end the call.....if you're not happy with the resolution then it won't be you will it? It takes some kahunas to hang up the phone on a disgruntled customer. Finally you've not even told him what you want from him. Admittance of guilt will pure and simple not happen but if you tell him you're looking for 20 quid for inconvenience and a new gaitor I'd bet my bollocks to a barndance he'll give you it. A mistake was made.....you have the facts to offer up him which 99% proves his tech did not tighten the bolt. The 1% is that you or someone else may have fettled with it in the mean time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yeah, Ricey put it much better than me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Stroppy can work, but I use it as a last resort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatooandy67 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 My 2 cents Yes it's good to have written records (email, letter etc) especially where large bills or lots of damage has occurred but looking from a different perspective fortunately no long term or expensive damage happened so maybe either give the garage a ring or better still pop round and have a chat in person I think you will most likely get a result from being upfront and personal keeping it civil and polite as people respond better when asked as opposed to told. If it were me I would expect no less than what you're asking (cover your expenses and inconvenience) but can't help thinking your email will most likely be ignored and discarded whereas if your standing there in person then it will be more difficult for the garage in question to ignore you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Really don't see what you(op) want the garage to say or do further. It is clearly human error as those bolts never work loose and if anything requires some force to undo them. I change all my fluids at least once yearly so I know. The response was std speak without actually admitting fault. The offer to fit the lower rubber gaitor is a subtle way to acknowledge this and apolog. Anything else is faffing and a waste of time in your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 You have zero proof he didn't tighten the plug though. Yes, it's very very very unlikely, but it's now your word against his. Are you prepared to go to court over this? Someone's gotta buckle at some point here. Given the fact you've already said you're not going back there, it's not like he's going to lose a customer any way if he doesn't back down at this point. Whether on the phone or via email it would be my word against his. At least via email, I can easily point to proof that backs up my point rather than just going back forth on the phone with “he didn’t tighten it†and “he didâ€. Sorry bud, but I can't see you winning this one. If the owner backs down then fair play to him: I'm not sure I would at this point. I'd have done it much earlier and sucked it up. In that case, I already lost when I set out. The mess has been cleaned up, the cost of the new part is negligible and the opportunity for them to change it when the gearbox was out has passed. I just wanted them to admit fault which they did for the gaitor and pay the cleaning bill out of principal. Basically what Dan is saying is that (with respect) everyone HATES a keyboard warrior. A phone call establishes a personal connection between you both, one that subsequently ( unless dealing with a *****) allows empathy and reason to enter the conversation. I disagree. Sending a complaint email to someone who runs a business and who I have met in person on several occasions, doesn’t make me a keyboard warrior. When you know you will be debating over something that was either done or not done there’s not much room for empathy and reason. It was either tightened or it wasn’t and of course he would say it was. I’d just have to email him links to prove my point anyway. Also if you can keyboard warrior him.......then he can keyboard warrior you because that ends his part of the conversation. If your on the phone someone has to end the call.....if you're not happy with the resolution then it won't be you will it? It takes some kahunas to hang up the phone on a disgruntled customer. That’s why I didn’t want to phone. I am disgruntled and I don’t want to things to escalate on a phone call, I’m accusing his staff of not their job right, as Ekona said, I have no proof of this. I don’t see where it could go in my favour. Sending him the email with photos gives him time to think about his response and keeps things civil rather than putting pressure on him. Plus I’ve emailed him before with an issue before I went in and he was very helpful so bear that in mind. Finally you've not even told him what you want from him. Admittance of guilt will pure and simple not happen but if you tell him you're looking for 20 quid for inconvenience and a new gaitor I'd bet my bollocks to a barndance he'll give you it. The damage is done. One wound healed. The other will soon. I just want them to admit their mistake to prevent me leaving an honest review in a few places. I knew I couldn’t ‘win’ in this situation. I wanted them give the opportunity to make it up to me. Honesty would have been a good start if it is as unlikely as one would expect for the plug to untwist itself. A mistake was made.....you have the facts to offer up him which 99% proves his tech did not tighten the bolt. The 1% is that you or someone else may have fettled with it in the mean time. I agree. When I first saw it, I said to Jez ‘they won’t admit it’. I’m not Mystic Meg, anyone could have told you his tech wouldn’t admit to him (the manager) he didn’t tightened it up whether I phoned up, went in or took him for dinner. Better to just offer up the facts in an email if you already know it will go there anyway. Lets just see what happens. I've emailed him again so we'll soon find out. Thanks everyone for their input including the constructive criticism (even as misplaced as it was) . It's been a big help establishing the most likely reason for my plug coming loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 The manager has emailed me back and has agreed to cover the cost of cleaning up the oil and to fit the part for free. I'm not asking for anymore, I'm just happy to have to cost covered even if it is a small amount, more importantly, I have no reason to be disgruntled Thanks again everyone for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Another drama with a happy ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leet8845 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Everyone likes a happy ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatooandy67 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Result Good to hear they owned up and agreed to put things right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well, colour me shocked. Fair play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 OK that is good to hear. But I would also be asking for the GB oil to be drained and and refilled, with the correct amount of Molyslip, given some will have been lost with the leak and that is what you paid for. Oh, and make absolutely sure the GB oil is the correct type - Zmanalex can advise (sorry I forgot what type this is now without looking it up} as that is quite critical from what I have seen posted on here over the years. Edit: did a search for the correct GB oil - see this link: http://cougarstore.c...018b3692ded1225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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