M3 Track Car

[GMballistic]

http://vmax200.co.uk/index_h.php

 

Give Craig an email and see if you can get onto the next one, whilst he wouldn't go for standard Zeds I reckon a supercharged one would be right up his street

Cheers Dan I'll have a look at that in the new year. Their website currently not active but I'll keep an eye on it.

 

Thanks.

[Commander]

Both cars are SMG.

 

The surfaces were damp in places and the concrete was wetter than the Tarmac; the rolling start round the corner definately resulted in higher speeds - the problem wasn't that we got to terminal velocity, it was that we ran out of runway. If we did standing starts the speed at the breaking point was 5-10 mph slower... Steering gets quite light above 150ish too - I can see why people invest in splitters, canards, etc.

 

Also if you look at the braking chart, it's pretty straight but for a little lump at around 60 odd - I tried applying more pressure and the ABS kicked in so I eased off the pressure a bit and got back to full braking. Quite interesting seeing the difference ABS makes; and this is with the 'better' ABS from the CSL too. Human-controlled braking right at the limit is clearly better than ABS.

[Commander]

Booked on to the Bedford Autodrome session (SEN Circuit) coming up on Sat 17th Jan - £99 - bargain! (Run by Javelin Trackdays)

 

Anybody else coming?

[Commander]

I've picked up a set of 4x Federal 595RSR tyres (255x35 R18) for silly cheap money, so these are on the car now. The M3 suffers from understeer a bit on track so instead of the traditional staggered setup with 225 at the front, I'm now running a square 255/35 setup, with the wheels on all four corners just being the M3's standard rear 18x10s. The tread pattern on the 595RSR is directional, so it means I can swap tyres front and back to help with the wear patterns.

 

Since Bruntingthorpe I've also started taking more weight out of the car. The rear parcel shelf covers, sound insulation, speakers and wiring are all now gone, as is the headliner, some more wiring, most of the internal lights, the radio head unit, god handles, some random brackets I found not doing much and the glove-box are all now out.

 

There is SO much wiring in the car, I can now understand how people say they got several kilos out when stripping. There are also loads of welded on brackets that are now not doing anything, so after I've got as much interior unbolted as I can, it'll be angle grinder time.

 

The car will now be fairly front-heavy / rear-light, and with the increased tyre width at the front end I think handling could become interesting, but we'll see what happens. As the "build" progresses more weight will come out of the front (still got loads of wiring, trim, airbags & insulation to pull out in the cabin, plus more stuff under the bonnet I can pull out too) and some weight will go back in too (cage)... Hopefully this should balance the car up a bit more as I progress. (Air Con is staying in)

 

Service items aside, I'm not spending any money on making it lighter yet as there are still plenty of things I can remove for free . When the time comes though, there will be cage going in (need to price up a T45 cage, lighter than CDS, I think?) and the doors will get swapped for CF/FG, which saves a whole heap of weight. Can't do the doors without the cage though as the replacements won't have any side impact protection in them. After that, it'll be time for lighter wheels - the OEM ones I'm using are about 23kg with the tyre... I should be able to get that down to about 18kg I think, which will be another 20kg of (rotational) mass gone.

 

I'm toying with the idea of changing the ratio on the diff too. The M3 comes with a 3.6:1 diff, which tops out at 180-ish mph given enough straight tarmac. I won't really be using the car for max speed runs though, so if I put a 3.9:1 or a 4:1 diff in I'll get more acceleration lower down where I need it and sacrifice top speed, which will reduce to about 160-ish mph, which is still more than enough on a track day I reckon.

 

Once I've got the car feeling vaguely decent and I've got a few more track days under my belt I'll book another driver training day too, or maybe go halves / thirds with an instructor at a track somewhere. I was really impressed with how much I improved with Gary Marsh a few months ago so I'm a big believer in training now.

 

Photos to follow

[brillomaster]

good stuff, was considering going to Bedford this weekend but I think we're going to wait until snetterton at the end of the month.

 

However, we're VERY interested to hear how you get on with the new tyres - we're considering a very similar setup, same 595 RS-Rs, except 245 fronts and 255 rears, since the standard BMW 330ci fronts are only 8", so wont support a 255 width front. we too are getting annoyed with the understeer present, but we don't want to completely eliminate it, rather just reduce it, which is why we wont go for 245s all round.

 

as for weight I think you'd be alright even if you do take all the weight out the rear - our beemers have been fully stripped from the front seats back, and it still understeers on the staggered tyres. however you may find it affects traction out of corners, although we just drop the tyre pressures to compensate - normally run 31psi front, 33psi rear when hot, on 18s, which is well down on the recommended pressures.

 

actually, in all fairness we aren't doing anything on Saturday, would you mind if we maybe came along anyways? Bedford isn't too far away, could pop down to see how you get on on track.

 

 

[Commander]

Wouldn't surprise me if you could get 255s on if you had some adjustable front camber plates? Or if you're still on the stock ones, people swap the left and right ones over - gives you another degree or so somehow... plenty of threads about this on t'interweb... I think the serious M3s are running 265/275 up front, just need enough camber and wheels with the right offsets... The setup on 330ci can't be that different, can it?

 

I'm planning on running 25PSI cold, so should end up around 30-ish PSI when hot... Hot might be hard to achieve with the weather forecast though, we'll see what happens.

 

I'm not too proud to admit I'm a fairly inexperienced track day driver so I'll give you my views, but how much weight you give them is entirely your own risk!

 

Always good to put faces to names so pop along by all means. It's looking a pretty busy day though - 62 cars signed up last time I looked! :-/

[brillomaster]

I think our tyre width is dictated purely by the wheels we're running - if money was no object we'd get 18x10s all round with 265s most likely, but we've gotta make do with 8" front, 8.5" rears, same as a zed.

 

no worries about track inexperience, after all we all have to start somewhere! you'd be surprised how useful it is just having someone else to bounce ideas off.

 

Thanks, will aim to be over there about 12:30, so halfway through lunch. will come over in our beemer so you can compare and contrast, although I probably wont take it on track.

[nissanman312]

I might have a ride up and see what goes on

[Commander]

The more the merrier... Bring a helmet!

[Commander]

Bedford Autodrome - SEN Circuit

 

Interesting day out yesterday... Conditions were clear, but temperatures were absolutely baltic. Took a mate in my E46, my Brother was there in his stripped out E36, and Brillo turned up to steal pax laps and compare notes on his 330Ci vs my M3 (both E46s). This was the first time I've really used the car in the dry and the results were... interesting.

 

Clearly it's a quick car, it's a semi-stripped out M3, the interesting bit was comparing it to the E36 my brother was in. My car is a bit more powerful with slightly wider rubber and after-market brakes, shocks and springs. The 36 is a good 200kg lighter, with a cage, seam-welded, after-market springs (higher spring rate) and he's a more experienced driver than I am.

 

The 46 keeps really flat through the corners - the 36 often lifts the inside wheel. We think this is because the 46 is still on an OEM anti-roll bar and the 36 is running a much stiffer after-market one... So when cornering, the 36's ARB is stronger than the spring on the inside of the corner which allows the ARB to lift the inside wheel off the floor when the outside gets compressed under hard cornering and braking. None of this matters a jot though, because the big lesson for me is that weight is king. The 36 accelerates, brakes and corners SO much harder than my 46 does (and we were running the same tyres and pressures). This means I'm going to have to finish stripping the easy bits from the interior (~5kg) and there's about another 10kg I can easily get out of the Engine bay before I have to get drastic and remove the air con to save another 10-15kg. After that it's after-market doors, lexan, angle-grinder, etc... which should net me another 50kg or so, if I spend enough :-/

 

While I'm thinking about tyres, this was my first time out on the Federal 595RS-Rs, and I liked them. This isn't to say that they're a particularly fast tyre, or even that grippy, but they're pretty cheap, didn't go off (and I was giving them hell), and they let you feel the car move around under you, which is what makes it interesting. I think I'm a fairly aggressive driver so they were taking some abuse and I reckon they've got another 2-3 days left in them. At half the price of R888s and with more feeling, I can't complain at that really.

 

Another big difference is the geometry we're running - Despite having adjustable camber plates, the 46 is still on about -1.5 degrees camber while the 36 is on about -4 degrees. I've not had chance to check tyre wear yet to see if camber is a problem, but I expect if I increased my camber this would help with the understeer. Max the plates I have will do is about 3.5 degrees so I'm tempted to just whack them up to whatever full is and get the toe-in/out reset to zero some time later.

 

I was using some of the day to play around with trail braking in to corners... it makes a huge difference. If you're old school and do 'brake-then-turn-then-straighten-then-power', the M will understeer as you get near the limits. If you trail-brake however, (so, brake later, and still be on the brakes for the first chunk of the corner too), the additional load you put on the fronts really helps bring the car round... and if you get off the brakes and back on the power soon enough, the additional speed carried through the corner is massive... This doesn't really help with the longer, sweepier corners though, that's where I think increasing the camber should help.

 

Not everything was rosy though My car still has the oem rear calipers and the rear-left was sticking on. I could go out for about 7-8 laps without it being a problem, but after that the brakes were getting pretty spongy and having to take two stabs at the brake pedal when you're barreling along towards a propane tank isn't good! I think the longest stint was for about 20 mins, after that the car was just getting scary to drive. Also, and I'm not sure if this is related or not, but the rear-left (and possibly also rear-right) wheel bearing is totally shagged... The whole car shakes like you're driving over rumble-strips, which made the 2hr+ drive home a bit of a trudge. Brake caliper refurb kit and new rear-wheel bearings both now ordered, so that's me busy for a while as I'm told by everybody the rear bearings are a PITA to remove.

 

The 36 faired slightly better, but the day ended with a cracked front-right brake disk. It was running some cheapo drilled disks and there are now two cracks in the disk, both starting at drill holes and extending to the inner and outer edges of the disk.

 

So, a slightly sad note to end on, especially for Brillo (good to meet you by the way!) as he probably only got about 10 laps in... sorry!

 

Next up is Mallory Park, if I can get the repairs done before all the slots sell out.

[brillomaster]

Thanks for the ride! Your m3 is indeed rapid down the straights, and sounds demonic in the process! New tyres were working well, I'd say 8 laps before going off a bit is good going, normally we only do 5-6 laps before a break. Will definitely have to get a set.

 

As for cornering if you can dial up the front camber it'll help hugely on the faster stuff- definitely worth looking at before Mallory as the first right hander goes on forever!

[Commander]

I got handy with my DIY and Trigonometry skills last night - front camber is currently -2, and looking at the state of the tyres it's not quite enough so I'll max-out the camber plates and see what I get. Hopefully -3 to -3.5 and I'll see how that goes.

 

I'm still waiting for the brake refurb kit and rear wheel bearings to arrive, so I continued stripping out more weight.

 

 

 

All passenger-side carpet is now out, along with the under-seat air vents, the lower 2/3s of the dash has been cut out, passenger side airbag and associated brackets out (surprisingly heavy!), centre console out, and quite a few more wires identified for removal. All totaled up, probably about 10kg out.

 

I need to fabricate a little panel to go around the gearstick so I can keep some of the buttons - SMG adjuster, front windows, traction control, TPMS reset, etc. I don't have any fabrication tools, skills or experience so hopefully it'll turn out ok!

[Commander]

Oh ****.

 

Have you ever started a job not really realising how fiddly, complicated and time consuming it's going to be? Welcome to thinning out a wiring loom. I've never done this before, i can't find any idiot proof guides, and there aren't enough colours in the rainbow to distinguish between all of the wires in this bloody car!

 

So... One hour in and I'm now much wiser than I was when i woke up this morning

 

- The logic behind what wires will be in what bits of the loom and routing what way is 100% none-existant. Assume nothing.

- Quadrouple-check everything before you cut anything.

- REALLY CAREFULLY using a stanley knife to cut through the cable wrap is much easier than trying to unwrap the stuff

- Patience is key.

 

For anybody else that's considering this, I present to you, Commander's Wiring-Loom-Thinning Methodology.

 

Prep

(This assumes 'on-car' thinning)

Rip all the crap out of your so you can access as much of the loom as possible.

 

Method

Find a wire that no longer plugs in to anything.

Unbundle as much cable-wrap as you can.

Pull out as much of the wire from the bundle as possible.

Check wire isn't magically joined in the middle to several other bits - usually things you can't identify, and often with various colours of wired

Pluck up neves to cut wire

Repeat a few times.

Try to turn car on

- Car Starts? Hooray!

- - Check various systems - lights, fans, etc.

- Car doesn't start? "Oh ****!"

- - Work out what you cut but shouldn't have, and fix it.

Repeat as necessary.

 

Thoughts

When you realise you're out of your depth, just have a cuppa, look at the bigger picture and carry on.

Do NOT give in to temptation (like stopping, or buying a replacement loom to fix the one you think you've just ruined).

 

This is what happens when you fail to quadrouple-check everything, instead of getting a bit happy with the snippers... Oops. So that's 6 wires I need to find from about a hundred, then re-connect and test. Joy.

 

 

The car still runs with surprisingly few things plugged in...

[Ekona]

 

It's a sod of a job, and the more complex the car the more wiring you have to work out! It's still a job I need to do on the MR2, but there's not really much there to remove in terms of weight.

[brillomaster]

wow good work, that is some commitment there! i'll be taking a bit of inspiration from you for my weekend's work on our 330ci - front carpet, doorcards, passenger airbag and glovebox are coming out.

 

may tidy some of our wiring, but wont be quite as extensive as you - just the obvious ones like rear speakers and electrics that used to be in the boot. but as I said on Saturday, we've got bigger things to worry about!

 

but still, looking forward to seeing how this develops - were you going to be putting a cage in it once interior is all stripped down?

[Commander]

 

It's a sod of a job, and the more complex the car the more wiring you have to work out! It's still a job I need to do on the MR2, but there's not really much there to remove in terms of weight.

 

Weight gains in the M3 are about 8kg if you do a good job apparently. 8kg seemed a lot when I started, but it's probably not far off the mark actually. More importantly, I just wanted to tidy things up a bit... Having the loom routed here there and everywhere doesn't look very good.

 

wow good work, that is some commitment there! i'll be taking a bit of inspiration from you for my weekend's work on our 330ci - front carpet, doorcards, passenger airbag and glovebox are coming out.

 

may tidy some of our wiring, but wont be quite as extensive as you - just the obvious ones like rear speakers and electrics that used to be in the boot. but as I said on Saturday, we've got bigger things to worry about!

 

but still, looking forward to seeing how this develops - were you going to be putting a cage in it once interior is all stripped down?

 

"front carpet, doorcards, passenger airbag and glovebox" - All of this put together saves you about as much weight as ONE heated, electric, leather front seat. Why not do all of that AND put some cheapo bucket seats in? You'll save about 60-70kg in just one afternoon

 

It will get a cage eventually, but not yet - I don't have the funds. My hope is that now I've removed loads of stuff, and once I've finished the wiring, stripping it down for a second or third time should be a lot easier.

[brillomaster]

ah, but you see... taking doorcards, carpet and airbags out is free... even cheap bucket seats cost something! tyres first, and we're gonna need new front brake pads soon as well!

[rabbitstew]

I hope you are selling off all the bits you remove on ebay, or at least keeping them to once side. When I stripped out my Renault 5 GT Turbo many years back, I simply stuck the wheelie bin next to the car and anything which didnt help the car go faster I ripped out & chucked straight in the wheelie bin. Now, many years later im kicking myself as all the bits I chucked are fetching a fortune now on ebay.

 

Luckily the wiring on my car is a lot simpler than yours looks, but a couple of mistakes I learnt is to check whats behind the dash when your drilling through it... i ended up butchering a load of wires and then having a nightmare trying to rejoin them. Also, when fitting a cage, even if it a bolt in one, you need to weld in strengthening plates under the cage legs. Again, make sure you know whats behind & around what your welding, otherwise a) undersealant my catch fire under the car resulting in a brown trouser "where the f**k is the hosepipe" moment. or b ) you wonder weeks later why a load of wires are all melted then realise it was because they were within close proximity of where you had been welding. doh.

 

Does the M3 have any of that orrible black bitchaman tar stuff stuck over the floorpan under where the carpets were? It looks like it does, but painted over in some of your pix. That stuff weighs tons. I chipped out loads from my car. Apparently makes it loads noisier in the cabin, but with an exhaust like yours I cant see you stressing too much about that.

 

Good work!

Edited January 20, 2015 by rabbitstew

[Commander]

It's been a while...

 

The interior is now fairly well stripped out and a lot tidier than before, but there's still some work to do. I got the rear camber arms changed (what an absolute PITA! Had to drop the exhaust off, drop the diff, remove some under-trays, remove the M3-version of the W-brace, pull out the drive shafts and even with all that out the way it's still a fiddly job), airbags removed, NSR wheel bearing changed, lower-rear ball joints changed, oil & filter changed, brakes bled, sticky NSR caliper changed, and so on... Maxed out the camber on my front top mounts (which was also a PITA to do, because my top mounts add castor too, so to change the camber you have to drop the whole coilover / top mount assembly out of the suspension turret, adjust the top mount, re-assemble, and then measure.

 

All of this now done, took the car for an alignment today and the bloody thing started stalling every time i came to a stop... ffs! Managed to get the alignment done, but now I've got some other errors to be looking in to - hopefully I can get them sorted by Friday for shakedown at Abingdon Airfield track day.

 

I know you all love a picture or two, so...

 

Fully Adjustable Rear Camber Arm;

 

new error messages I need to fix - looks like fuel-pump but lots of people saying that's a red-herring and more likely to be a dirty MAF or some loose wiring

 

 

Inside the car now it is (mostly) re-assembled

 

 

New alignment settings

 

The stupid top mount

[brillomaster]

so.... if im reading that right, then before the alignment the fronts were actually toeing out? but those settings look sweet, -3.2 neg camber up front and -2.5 on the rear sounds like a recipe for success - looking forward to hearing how you get on at abingdon

[Commander]

Don't read anything in to the 'before' settings, I've dismantled most of the car so they're all over the place and don't really represent anything.

 

I wanted -3 on the rear really but the guy reckoned that's all he could do. Not sure I agree given how adjustable those arms are, but it's still a lot more than the -1.5 (ish) it had on to begin with. I'll suck it and see at Abingdon on Friday and adjust as needs be.

 

These settings seem to be in about the right ball park for an aggressive e46 m3 track day setup so I'm looking forward to seeing how they do... Just hope it's warm and dry on the day!

 

The error codes seem to have remained clear too, so I assume I had a loose connector somewhere. I re-seated them all and it hasn't come back. Whoop - love a cheap fix.

 

Saw a Silver/Grey DE when I was on my test drive too, out near Wallingford way.

[Commander]

Cooling is a bit of a problem at the moment - the last time I went out on track everything was quite a bit hotter than I'd have liked, so I needed to do something... Out came the air con condenser fan and associated mountain of plastic supports and shrouds. This should improve airflow to the radiator and oil cooler, but at the expense of the effectiveness of the air con condenser when stationary / going slowly.

 

 

 

Both the air con and main radiators are Aluminium, but you can only see the aircon one from the front. The aluminium fins are corroding pretty badly on the air con rad so I can only assume the same for the main one too - it is 11years old after all. I'll get a new radiator bought and installed after Abingdon's out the way and hopefully that's my cooling problems sorted. Might rip out the air con too as its heavy and I need to get more weight out of the front to balance it up a bit more.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Commander

[GMballistic]

Can't beat a bit of weight reduction.

[Ekona]

Zero toe out on the front on a track car? You want much more than that fella, at least 2.0 on an E46 I reckon. Other setting all look fine, that'll be lovely to steer with the extra toe.

 

Carbon intake is lush though

[Commander]

Carbon intake would be lush if it wasn't held together with a DIY fibreglass repair and gaffer tape!

 

I'm gonna play with the front toe softly softly - it turns in really well already and adding toe increases wear. There are quite a few people saying they happily run e46s with little/no toe so I'll see how Abingdon goes before I decide on anything.