Andy Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 If anyone is interested........... Long and short of it is McLaren lose all their constructors points, effectively handing the title to Ferrari but Hamilton & Alonso keep their points. McLaren also get a $100million fine!! McLaren press conference at 19:15 tonight! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm Does anyone else feel this is slightly harsh?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Yes very harsh, Ferrari have the FIA in there pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmmackfc Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 At least they are allowed to keep their drivers points... They had property belonging to their main rival and to prove whether they used it or not is a hard call. I'm a Ferrari fan, but I do think they get a lot of favourable decisions, but in this case I have little sympathy for McLaren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Does anyone else feel this is slightly harsh?? I'm a big F1 fan and realise this could hurt the sport in a big way but I haven't finished reading all the details. It could actually be a fair punishment in F1 terms. Remember Alonso, Hamilton and DeLaRosa were offer immunity from punishment if there provided all correspondence they had on the issue. There was a rumour that DeLaRosa and Alonso discussed the issue in emails prior to the date that the Ferrari file was said to of been given to the McLaren designer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 At least they are allowed to keep their drivers points...They had property belonging to their main rival and to prove whether they used it or not is a hard call. I'm a Ferrari fan, but I do think they get a lot of favourable decisions, but in this case I have little sympathy for McLaren. Drivers championship is irrelevant. When Toyota were found to have ferrari property nothing was done because obviously Toyota were not a threat like mclaren are to their championship asperation's, so ferrari never reported it. This is typical smacked arse Ferrari, they would have been beaten fair and square this year by a better car. "There are more Ferrari representatives on the World Council than anybody else." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 988645.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is a completely different situation. In the case of Ferrari and Toyota it was actually Ferrari that sold the data to Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is a completely differnt situation. In the case of Ferrari and Toyota it was actually Ferrari that sold the data to Toyota. So the largest and richest car manufacturer in the world paid fiat for info? Anyhow the constructors championship this year as been rendered meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is a completely differnt situation. In the case of Ferrari and Toyota it was actually Ferrari that sold the data to Toyota. So the largest and richest car manufacturer in the world paid fiat for info? Anyhow the constructors championship this year as been rendered meaningless. When you put it like that it sounds hilarious. The constructors championship is now over. No denying that. I’d say the evidence presented today showed that Ferrari’s data was used in the McLaren cars. Bottom line though is that a member or members of the McLaren team cheated on a level never seen before in the sport. Ron and the remainder of the team may not of been aware of it but the team have to accept responsibility. They will appeal but only as that’s the normal procedure. I expect next years season to be even better then this years. I also expect Hamilton to thrive in a car without traction control where as Alonso may not be able to adapt fast enough. Engines, gear boxes and drive trains will have to be stronger and drivers will have to work harder. It’s going to be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Jackie Stewart was in the London papers saying how much damage this has caused to F1 by effectively "washing their dirty laundry in public", and I agree. I also agree that it renders the constructors championship pointless and I reckon has damaged Ferrari almost as much as MClaren. as previously said at least Lewis has his points. It will be interesting to see if there is truth in the story that Alonso gave email information demming MClaren to the WMSA. Apprently from an exchange with test driver De La Rosa. If this does prove to be true then what a little SH1T.....and Alonso will prbably be with Renault for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think you're right Kev. Alonso will jump ship if he gets a chance. The FIA said more details of the evidence will be released tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Wouldn't it be funny if Alonso ended up at Ferrari! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Wouldn't it be funny if Alonso ended up at Ferrari! Even funnier if he had no ride nex year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzed Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Wouldn't it be funny if Alonso ended up at Ferrari! I honestly think this would be a real possibility, if only they dare. More likely Alonso will end up at Renault for a season first. I can`t see him staying at McLaren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't think Ferrari would want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzed Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't think Ferrari would want him. Kimi wouldn`t play second fiddle anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 what a disgrace for the sport! To do that at such a crucial stage of the championship.. its been one of the closest seasons ive seen for a while with regards to the constructors and drivers championships and ive been watching all the races with great interest because of it, however this has just blown everything out of the water and i feel Ferrari have once again got their own way in F1... I feel that the punishment is very harsh. Next season may be even worse for Hamilton.. if McLaren decide to pull out he wont have a car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 McLaren wont pull out. It’s all about the racing for them. But they will be doing some house keeping over the next few weeks/months. I’d put money on Alonso leaving for Renault. McLaren will push for Hamilton to win the championship in his rookie season and will push again next year to prove they did it on their own. I’m still undecided if the punishment fits the bill and will wait for the FIA to release the evidence which will be tomorrow hopefully. McLaren have said they’ll wait to see the evidence before deciding on an appeal. I really feel for Ron who looked shocked and even confused at the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 seems very harsh when you consider how much British Airways got fined for price fixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Just found this at the bottom of the official press release from the FIA. However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team’s drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regard to drivers’ points.** **No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season. -------------- i.e. no constructor representative. It is said that the dossier contained enough information to build, run and test a Ferrari 2007 car. How this data, if any, was used in the McLaren camp remains to be seen. Hurray up FIA and present the evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmmackfc Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 How can we say this is harsh? sorry they are lucky IMO that their drivers haven't been punished. McLaren had a book on how to build a Ferrari, ie all component data etc. In a sport where 1/100th second is crucial then any help gained is going to give you an advantage. It may be a case of sour grapes or whatever from Ferrari and I agree that they get more than their fair share of decisions, but this is a whole different league of event to anything previous. Team members of McLaren knew what they had and the team as a whole has to suffer. I agree this is detremental to a sport that is already suffering due to the lack of overtaking, but what were Ferraris options here... simply say nothing? On the plus side at least the best track in the world is back on hte calendar, roll on SPA.... and make the bus stop what it used to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I never understood why they ditched the bus stop. It was one of the few overtaking spots on the circuit. The pitlane enterance will be interesting. One driver described it as exactly the width of two F1 cars. Very little room for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 How can we say this is harsh? sorry they are lucky IMO that their drivers haven't been punished. McLaren had a book on how to build a Ferrari, ie all component data etc. In a sport where 1/100th second is crucial then any help gained is going to give you an advantage. It may be a case of sour grapes or whatever from Ferrari and I agree that they get more than their fair share of decisions, but this is a whole different league of event to anything previous. Team members of McLaren knew what they had and the team as a whole has to suffer. I agree this is detremental to a sport that is already suffering due to the lack of overtaking, but what were Ferraris options here... simply say nothing? On the plus side at least the best track in the world is back on hte calendar, roll on SPA.... and make the bus stop what it used to be But equally Ferrari are too blame because a employee of theirs gave the info to Mclaren. I hope that Mclaren now withdraw from the remainder of the season. If they can take away every constructor point from them then they might as well take the driver's as well, because the penalty says that mclaren benefited massively from having this info so the drivers must have also. The championship is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Well here it is. WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL JUDGEMENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Breaking News. The FIA feel that MClaren did use Ferrari data, and have named Del La Rosa and Alonso for snitching on the team. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 995240.stm I guess eventually we will find out technically exactly what MClaren have supposed to have used and assess if they really did benefit. It's interesting to hear that De La Rosa and Alonso had exchanged emails on the subject, (previous announced), and the FIA said they knew that Ferrari secrets had been used. I wonder if this really is true or these 2 guys dissatisfaction with MClaren. How come these 2 "buddies" knew and Hamilton didn't? Back to my original point Alonso is a little SH1T and now so is De La Rosa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Am I missing something here? Wasn't this Ferrari dossier handed over reasonably recently, ie within the last 6 months. If thats the case surely there wouldn't have been enough time to include elements of the Ferrari design into the McLaren car? In F1 a 100th of a second can win a race and equally all parts of the car are there to do a very specific job in conjunction with other parts of the car. If these cars are designed and built from the ground up by each manufacturer then surely by including any element from another team into your car this could potentially upset the balance of your car. Without huge amounts of development and testing I can't see how they could have used the information. The 2008 car, now that could be a different story. For what it's worth I'm very happy that Hamilton & Alonso haven't been docked points but I do think the sentencing of McLaren overly harsh - given the facts presented so far anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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