Smitherb Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Calling I.C.E. gurus, your wisdom is requested! I've recently upgraded to Focal 165KRs in the doors for my 2005 GT4 and Im very disappointed with the results. I had the install done by a car audio shop for a pretty penny and Im a bit gutted really. Here are the details: The Focal drivers are mounted in stock location with spacers (unknown type) Doors have been Dynamatted The Focal tweeters are mounted in the stock location behind the grill I'm running the Focals via an Alpine V12 MRP-F550 amp - 90WRMS per channel (1/2 channels) The stock rears are disconnected No Sub yet but planned for soon running from channels 3/4 bridged Headunit is Alpine INA-W910r. HPF set at 60hz currently for fronts. EQ levels set at default 0 for highs and lows. I havent had a chance yet to pull off the door cards and inspect the work. I've run Focal Access 6.5" component speakers off the same Alpine amp in a previous installation in a different car and was very happy with the results. I'm thinking that the performance issues are likely to be a result of the install, everything sounds harsh with muddy bass and midrange and screechy highs. Bearing in mind I haven't actually had the door card off and seen the install yet, can anyone offer some advice on where to focus my attention and best practice re sound deadening the doors? Im considering: removing tweeter grill from stock location relocating tweeters to A pillars Dremeling out driver speaker door panel and covering with speaker cloth foam ring sound deadening around and behind main drivers - see this http://www.soundconnectioninc.com/magento/index.php/home-page-items/5-f-a-s-t-ring-kit.html A load more Dynamat on the doors Obviously checking the crossovers on amp, HU and the Focal units themselves for any mismatches - will probably set Amp Xovers for full pass if not already. Thanks in advance for any guidance offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I dremmelled out the door grills, it's thick sound killing stuff, which helped the sound a bit. Not sure doing the same for the tweeter grills will help, as it's so cloe to your face? Could it make the sound even brighter? Best results I got in the end was a long time playing with the fader and the EQ and the levels and the crossover on the amp. If I was going to do something more, it'd be more dynamatting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) I was going to get these if I kept my Zed longer Unfortunately a Zed is a poor place for SQ, in the end I just went for volume to drown out the road noise Edited September 25, 2014 by spursmaddave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebedy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ive run a small 7" tablet through the aux at the back of my HU and by downloading various music players, some of which have got pro quality e.q.'s and effects and the like. By playing with this set up Im very happy with the sound. Next for me a speaker build behind the seats (I have a roadster). Its tight but do-able with what I got in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebedy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 @ mad dave - where can I get those door builds from?? they look tip top!! cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 American site I think as with a lot of custom stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seasider Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Your comments would suggest that you may need to attenuate the tweeter - reduce its level - the muddy bass could be a symptom of either slack fitting or too much compensation at the head unit. You said you had all the eq flat - you maybe need to fiddle with the controls to get what you are looking for tonally and then address the issues it suggests. I had a Subaru wrx that i upgraded all of the speakers on - using the oem head unit - and I had to run it with some weird settings to balance the sound to my taste - something like + 3 bass and - 4 treble to make it sound flat, there was far too much energy going to the tweeter even on the lowest level setting, whilst the oem head unit obviously didn't have enough beans to move the cones on the higher quality bass/mid units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seasider Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 One other thing that could help the bass problem is to connect one of the bass/mid speakers out of phase - this can help where speakers are facing each other as the cones will move in sympathy rather than opposing each other. A lot of people do this when they install subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitherb Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Cheers guys - anybody got some good tips on how best to apply Dynamat to get best results for the doors? plus and other sound deadening tips specifically for doors? I'm finding most of the muddyness is in the mid range, bass not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Can't remember exactly where I put mine, I think I concentrated at the area behind and around the speaker from memory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I did 2/3 of the door and as far as I could reach inside the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It's a bit of a thankless task though as SQ in a Zed is never going to be that great, build quality is just not there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I first installed my setup the sound was dreadful; removing the grille in front of the tweeters improved things amazingly. A simple thing to try to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I first installed my setup the sound was dreadful; removing the grille in front of the tweeters improved things amazingly. A simple thing to try to start with? Hello Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I first installed my setup the sound was dreadful; removing the grille in front of the tweeters improved things amazingly. A simple thing to try to start with? Hello Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpy Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When I first installed my setup the sound was dreadful; removing the grille in front of the tweeters improved things amazingly. A simple thing to try to start with? Hello Neil Where you been hiding Neil and hope all is well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitherb Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 So....got the drivers side door card off over the weekend to have a peek and found this: Sorry of the pic above doesnt work, it's my first time trying to post a pic. Inner door skin almost completely covered in Dynamat but not properly applied - i.e. big air pockets. No Dynamat around/through the speaker hole, just skimming over the top. Removing the speaker revealed no Dynamat on the exterior door skin behine the speaker either . I got to work by peeling some back and reapplying with a roller and tennis ball to ensure minimal air gaps. I trimmed some overlap Dynamat and used it to apply a 6 x 6 inch patch of to the are directly behind the speaker on the exterior door skin. might need to add more in the future but cant be arsed to remove the inner door skin, will apply as much as I can through the speaker hole. I also took to my speaker cover with a Dremmel (with limited success) as I read that this can improve things . After lots of mess with melted plastic I found I could remove the plastic sections inbetween the main spider web structure at the rear of the speaker cover using a sharp Stanley knife much more effectively. I would advise anyone wanting to do this mod to try the same. I managed to retain all the supporting structure leaving large air gaps for the audio to pass through unhindered. I then cut up some old black tights (don't ask), stretched over the speaker cover and had mum sew the overlap bits together behind the cover to keep it taught - trimming excess material afterwards. Cheers Mum! After all this I reassembled the door and installed the new speaker cover. I've got maybe a 5-10% improvement in mid range clarity but not enough. After some concentrated listening I realised that the muddy mids are due to the large air space between the door cards and the inner skin. Kicks and low bass seem fairly tight but high bass notes,vocals and midrange is resonating quite badly. So, current plans are: coat the inside of the door card with some sort of foam liner with a couple of big chunks of heavy foam stuck on strategically to act as baffles apply a foam ring (cut to correct profile) between the front of the speaker and the door card/speaker cover to try to minimse spill into the space between the rest of the door card and the inner door skin. will keep this thread updated with the results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIXXERUK Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 So....got the drivers side door card off over the weekend to have a peek and found this: Sorry of the pic above doesnt work, it's my first time trying to post a pic. Inner door skin almost completely covered in Dynamat but not properly applied - i.e. big air pockets. No Dynamat around/through the speaker hole, just skimming over the top. Removing the speaker revealed no Dynamat on the exterior door skin behine the speaker either . I got to work by peeling some back and reapplying with a roller and tennis ball to ensure minimal air gaps. I trimmed some overlap Dynamat and used it to apply a 6 x 6 inch patch of to the are directly behind the speaker on the exterior door skin. might need to add more in the future but cant be arsed to remove the inner door skin, will apply as much as I can through the speaker hole. I also took to my speaker cover with a Dremmel (with limited success) as I read that this can improve things . After lots of mess with melted plastic I found I could remove the plastic sections inbetween the main spider web structure at the rear of the speaker cover using a sharp Stanley knife much more effectively. I would advise anyone wanting to do this mod to try the same. I managed to retain all the supporting structure leaving large air gaps for the audio to pass through unhindered. I then cut up some old black tights (don't ask), stretched over the speaker cover and had mum sew the overlap bits together behind the cover to keep it taught - trimming excess material afterwards. Cheers Mum! After all this I reassembled the door and installed the new speaker cover. I've got maybe a 5-10% improvement in mid range clarity but not enough. After some concentrated listening I realised that the muddy mids are due to the large air space between the door cards and the inner skin. Kicks and low bass seem fairly tight but high bass notes,vocals and midrange is resonating quite badly. So, current plans are: coat the inside of the door card with some sort of foam liner with a couple of big chunks of heavy foam stuck on strategically to act as baffles apply a foam ring (cut to correct profile) between the front of the speaker and the door card/speaker cover to try to minimse spill into the space between the rest of the door card and the inner door skin. will keep this thread updated with the results. Good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitherb Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.soundconnectioninc.com/magento/index.php/6-fast-ring-kit.html Having seen set of these foam speaker rings online and a few favourable reviews I have just ordered a pair from the US. $25 +$15 shipping to UK. They can make a big difference....apparently. Will update the thread once delivered and fitted. Hoping they are the next best thing to door pods for sound quality installations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seasider Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 http://www.soundconnectioninc.com/magento/index.php/6-fast-ring-kit.html Having seen set of these foam speaker rings online and a few favourable reviews I have just ordered a pair from the US. $25 +$15 shipping to UK. They can make a big difference....apparently. Will update the thread once delivered and fitted. Hoping they are the next best thing to door pods for sound quality installations. Redneck 1 to Redneck 2 - '@*!#, you reckon that dudes will pay how much for these 3 pieces of foam? count me in!' Only joking - I'll be interested to hear the verdict on them ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitherb Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Yeah - its a lot for a block of foam but I reckon any attempt I make to fabricate the same thing will end up with bleeding fingers, a lot of swearing and a total botch job. Lets see how things pan out when they arrive - fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seasider Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I'm a bit sceptical as to how effective it will be because foam of that sort of density is going to be acoustically transparent I would have thought - albeit it may reduce some unwanted harmonics emanating from the door and door card. I can't wait to find out :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I saw something similar on youtube with guys doing this foam trick and apparently it does improve slightly. All these small things like, sound deadening in particular areas, ensuring plastics don't rattle, the foam trick amongs other all add up to improve the quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitherb Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Whilst waiting for the foam rings to arrive I have been looking into further audio improvements and sound deadening. Ill be getting a sub in the near future so want to ensure the car is prepared and also cut down on road noise. I got in touch with www.deadening.co.uk to ask how to deal with my door audio issues and what else they recommend in terms of general advice and products. Here's what I got back..... For your doors, we recommend applying Silent Coat Absorber 35 to the door cards and Dodo Liner Closed Cell Foam behind the speaker, straight over top of your Dynamat Xtreme on the outer skin. This will improve the acoustics of the speakers and also cut down on that mid range resonance. Products: http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-absorber-35 (also available in 15mm) http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/dodo-liner-ccf9 (also available in 6mm) For the wheel arches and floor we recommend a 2 stage process, similar to your doors only with different products. 1st stage: Treat the metal panel with Silent Coat 2mm Damping Mat (alternative to Dynamat Xtreme, made to same spec) to reduce panel resonance and body boom. Use up to 50% coverage for most cost effective results or 100% for a fully comprehensive job.This product can be used on any metal panel in your vehicle, with the most common areas to treat being the floors, doors, sides, wheel arches, roof and bulkhead. This is available in many pack sizes, you may want to purchase a bulk pack to treat all the areas (arches, rear floor & roof) http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-2mm-mat-volume-pack 2nd stage: Apply Dodo Pro Barrier MLV over the top of the 2mm damping mat. This secondary treatment targets exterior airbourne noise that is not directly generated by the body panels. It is a barrier treatment to block unwanted noise intrusion into the cabin from outside. 100% coverage is recommended for the affected areas. Treat the boot and cabin floor to help block road, exhaust noise and tyre roar. These sheets are half a square metre each, we recommend having a measure up to determine the correct amount needed. http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/dodo-pro-barrier-mlv As a 2nd stage in the roof, we suggest using Silent Coat Absorber as mentioned at the top. Pretty helpful...I hope. I have gone ahead and ordered the recommended products. I'll have another go at the doors over the weekend (and maybe start on the boot area too) and report back. If the speaker rings if they arrive in time Ill stick them in too. might be overkill but having spent £200 on speakers I figure I should get the best out of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIXXERUK Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I have read on a lot of threads (350/370z.com) that sound deadening the doors has the most impact on road noise and sound quality That reply is excellent, most companies would just say "look at the website" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.