Mack Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Ok, looks like a mixed bag of rainy weather tomorrow so leaving the road tyres on. Done all the checks I can think of and everything on the car seems fine. Will hopefully get some video footage using harrys laptimer app, just fixed an iphone holder to the rear screen. Will update after the event !!!! Good stuff mate! Be aware of one thing. I tried to run a go pro camera at Snetterton inside the car. I got pulled by the marshals because I was trying to mount it with a sucker cup or the go pro sticky on the windscreen. They wanted it clamped in a solid way in case of roll over. The passenger seat headrest might do it. Enjoy your day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 OK Mack, you keep telling people stuff thats not correct if it makes you feel good. http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths Likewise, in your link to that thread (what exactly was I supposed to be seeing in a picture that wasnt there?) you said yourself that you didnt get overheating with DS2500 but did with yellows, regardless of the pad its more likely to be the caliper at fault - I personally dont consider either to be a track pad anyway but its pretty obviously not something that happens very often, Ive never see a caliper change colour before and neither had anyone who answered that thread. An oil cooler kit is at least £200 + installation which I think is expensive for something I dont actually need, and telling people to use partworns rather than new tyres is criminal advice frankly (think about it ....... where did the partworn come from? why is it a "partworn" in the first place?) - Im planning on using a spare set of rear 18's with Nankang NS2-R's as Ive been suffering from my rears overheating a lot, I know a lot of other guys who do similar for track as when you really push "hard" you start to need something different front and back. Even your last post says a lot to me - every track briefing Ive ever been to they tell you they will only accept mechanical fixing of an internal camera, I guess you must have missed that in the "donkeys" youve been doing tracks huh? You have every right to do whatever you want, but spewing forth inaccurate advice while assuming the position of expert is not something Im down with - a lot of people dont have prior knowledge and are at the least will perpetuate the inaccuracy, at worst it could actually be dangerous. Youre stone cold wrong about warped discs, youre blaming a lack of ducting for a brake caliper problem, youre telling people to spend money they dont need to and then suggesting that one should use secondhand tyres from a totally unknown origin in preference to (in my case) RE050A's and MPSS front and back. Sorry of this sounds like a rant but Im not down with bad advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanji Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ok guys, well so far the car has been faultless, car has handled really well apart from entering a couple of hairpins too fast thank goodness for the esp !!!! Managed to get the first 4 - 5 laps in the dry which all changed pretty quickly as the heavens opened up. There's been a Westfield and Porsche spinning off and unfortunately they hit the barriers quite hard. The car does help a lot in the rain when things are getting quick and you overstep the mark. The lap timer app seems to be working well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Which TDO? Turn the TCS, especially if it's raining. You'll learn so much more about the car. If you get caught running that lap timer, you're going to be thrown off, you know that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) glad you're having a good day, yeah take it easy out there, can't imagine conditions being any worse! as for hairpins, remember slow in fast out - especially in the wet, get the car through the corner and straightened up before applying any power! on the plus side, wear to tyres is pretty minimal on a wet track, and brakes will stay a lot cooler as well. EDIT - as Dan says, don't get caught with a lap timer app, will get a very stern talking to I suspect. Even if its not live visible timing in car, its still not allowed - at a Javelin day we were warned that even having spectators timing laps was forbidden. do what everyone else does and take lap times from the video footage when you get home;) Edited October 6, 2014 by brillomaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanji Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ok thank you for the heads up, there was no mention of using these devices, "harrys la timer" Are you saying turn the ESP OFF? which is traction control? Did turn off for a bit but a little nervy of spinning it's now heavy rain and if it doesn't lighten up going to call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yup, turn it all off. Use your right foot to control the car, get it pivoting, feel the balance. Great fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 If you haven't spun, you're not trying hard enough. Do it when it's raining hard and every one else is in the paddock. Track will be empty, so nobody else to hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Is this wise? he might not have MPSS tyres fitted Edited October 6, 2014 by StevoD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 HA HA HA HA HA HA *zip* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 personally, on a wet racetrack, I think it makes chuff all difference what tyres you run... if you've got a rwd car and you try and apply throttle on the exit of a corner, you'll be going sideways. although maybe that's cos we've only ever run landsails and linglongs and acceleras and goodrides on the back of our track beemer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 although maybe that's cos we've only ever run landsails and linglongs and acceleras and goodrides on the back of our track beemer Seriously though, the MPSS are very good in the wet, RE050A are decent enough that you can notice a difference too. If you really want a laugh, try full race wets though, its absolutely incredible how they can make a wet day feel like a dry one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 OK Mack, you keep telling people stuff thats not correct if it makes you feel good. http://www.stoptech....and-other-myths If you makes you feel good I will take that one on the chin My main point was check the inside of the discs and pads as that was were mine where worn. I got the brake judder, ill accept my technical explanation is a bit off but my main point is inspect your discs and pads, especially the inside. Is that bad advice? My brake judder did not disappear. Likewise, in your link to that thread (what exactly was I supposed to be seeing in a picture that wasnt there?) you said yourself that you didnt get overheating with DS2500 but did with yellows, regardless of the pad its more likely to be the caliper at fault - I personally dont consider either to be a track pad anyway but its pretty obviously not something that happens very often, Ive never see a caliper change colour before and neither had anyone who answered that thread. ​The front callipers turned purple. They both changed colour. Could be caused by a stuck piston but probably unlikely to have exactly the same fault in both from callipers simultaneously. It would probably have shown itself on the road. I have only run DS2500s on track days so far so I can't comment on the yellow stuff pads. The point is its possible to overheat the brakes. Different pads will perform differently. A bit of ducting is a few quid and again "worth considering" not essential. An oil cooler kit is at least £200 + installation which I think is expensive for something I dont actually need, and telling people to use partworns rather than new tyres is criminal advice frankly (think about it ....... where did the partworn come from? why is it a "partworn" in the first place?) - Im planning on using a spare set of rear 18's with Nankang NS2-R's as Ive been suffering from my rears overheating a lot, I know a lot of other guys who do similar for track as when you really push "hard" you start to need something different front and back. The clues in the name! part worn means its been part worn . Its like any second hand parts, get them inspected and from a reasonable source. Zmanalex was selling part worn slicks on here. I personally haven't had a problem with part worn tyres. Bennet runs partworns as well, ask him. If you know the performance of the tyres and know a good mixed setup more power to you. I ran my car on a mix set of good branded tyres and it was not good. Again first track day, especially if its wet I would not experiment with mixed tyres. As for the oil cooler what oil temps are you getting? Ive asked already but you haven't answered Note my wording "worth considering" not essential and a recommendation to do cooling laps, bad advice? Give Abbey a buzz and ask them. Even your last post says a lot to me - every track briefing Ive ever been to they tell you they will only accept mechanical fixing of an internal camera, I guess you must have missed that in the "donkeys" youve been doing tracks huh? Track days in Northern Ireland where a bit more relaxed, Snetterton's a bit different, first time I went it wasn't mentioned in the briefing. They where happy to accept it if it was attached with the M3 sticky stuff, providing it was clear of the airbags. The bloody thing wouldn't stick to the dash texture unfortunately! I was trying to help the guy out by letting him know. Its a bummer to find your can't run your camera. You have every right to do whatever you want, but spewing forth inaccurate advice while assuming the position of expert is not something Im down with - a lot of people dont have prior knowledge and are at the least will perpetuate the inaccuracy, at worst it could actually be dangerous. ​Check your discs, as a beginner don't be mixing brands front and rear, beware of brake temps, oil temp maybe an issue, camera needs to be solidly mounted. Yup, real dangerous. No I'm not an expert, buts its what I've learned along the way. Youre stone cold wrong about warped discs, youre blaming a lack of ducting for a brake caliper problem, youre telling people to spend money they dont need to and then suggesting that one should use secondhand tyres from a totally unknown origin in preference to (in my case) RE050A's and MPSS front and back. Sorry of this sounds like a rant but Im not down with bad advice. Nothing wrong with a good rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Fair reply Mack, Ill give you that Partworns - you might get yours inspected (actually, by who, the Michelin Man? ) but most people would read that as "help yourself from a tyre pile", thats the dangerous bit. Ive never met a tyre inspector and Ive known a couple of people suffer blowouts at speed, Ill stick with the quality tested option thank you Slicks are a different story but again, if youre using DS2500's you probably arent quite ready for them yet Likewise with the brakes, there are 1500 registered users here and no-one has ever had the same issue, this suggests that its specific to your car - Ive seen well over 450 deg C on mine (standard calipers, discs, currently Carbon Lorraine RC06 pads) and wasnt suffering any fade at all, not to mention that fade is generally down to fluid rather than discs or pads. Sure, brake ducts arent going to hurt but neither are loads of other changes you could make Oil temps - I dont know on my car :o but Ive spent time with others to know its not caused any issues with FI being involved - again, like the brake ducts you could do it but theres a list of stuff Id be doing before I got to that stage. I didnt say anywhere you shouldnt do cool down laps, just that theres no need to keep <2K rpm or whatever, they are more for brakes than engines. I can see youre only trying to help so sorry if I was hard on you at all but Ive been around forums, tracks and modified cars a long time and Ive seen a lot of inaccurate advice given, myths perpetuated and just downright wrong stuff being presented as facts (welded diffs and stretched tyres are two personal favourites ), some of which I wish Id known was wrong when I first read it so I will tend to stick an oar in from time to time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 although maybe that's cos we've only ever run landsails and linglongs and acceleras and goodrides on the back of our track beemer Seriously though, the MPSS are very good in the wet, RE050A are decent enough that you can notice a difference too. If you really want a laugh, try full race wets though, its absolutely incredible how they can make a wet day feel like a dry one our plan is to switch to Federal 595 RS-Rs once the landsails are trashed... might not be as good in the wet as MPSS or RE050As, but should be sooo much better in the dry. But to be honest it will be nice to finally have 4 matching tyres, only been doing trackdays for a year and a half now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Greekman turned his callipers purple, but that's because he had the discs on the wrong way round IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Fair reply Mack, Ill give you that Your a gentlemen! Partworns - you might get yours inspected (actually, by who, the Michelin Man? ) but most people would read that as "help yourself from a tyre pile", thats the dangerous bit. Ive never met a tyre inspector and Ive known a couple of people suffer blowouts at speed, Ill stick with the quality tested option thank you Slicks are a different story but again, if youre using DS2500's you probably arent quite ready for them yet He's my bezzy mate!, not quite suggesting you grab a few from the tyre wall at the track. I source from a few reliable people and get it looked at by a reputable garage thats fits them for me. Mostly its common sense, no cuts to the side wall, no bulges etc. I plan to run slicks one day but I need to investigate oil surge etc. Ive got a set of blue stuff pads to run at my next track day. Likewise with the brakes, there are 1500 registered users here and no-one has ever had the same issue, this suggests that its specific to your car - Ive seen well over 450 deg C on mine (standard calipers, discs, currently Carbon Lorraine RC06 pads) and wasnt suffering any fade at all, not to mention that fade is generally down to fluid rather than discs or pads. Sure, brake ducts arent going to hurt but neither are loads of other changes you could make Bit of a mix up here, thats not my car. The inside wearing of discs and pads with stock Brembo's does seam to be common. Not sure if its a design issue or something else. Does yours do it? Oil temps - I dont know on my car :o but Ive spent time with others to know its not caused any issues with FI being involved - again, like the brake ducts you could do it but theres a list of stuff Id be doing before I got to that stage. I didnt say anywhere you shouldnt do cool down laps, just that theres no need to keep <2K rpm or whatever, they are more for brakes than engines. If you measure them, let me know. I can see youre only trying to help so sorry if I was hard on you at all but Ive been around forums, tracks and modified cars a long time and Ive seen a lot of inaccurate advice given, myths perpetuated and just downright wrong stuff being presented as facts (welded diffs and stretched tyres are two personal favourites ), some of which I wish Id known was wrong when I first read it so I will tend to stick an oar in from time to time Welded diffs and stretched tyres init! +40BHP from the K&N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 All cars wear their brakes faster on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanji Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Home sweet home, after a total of 300 miles of driving 130 on track. The z has performed amazing without fault. It has been a very interesting day driving from the dry to wet to very very wet. Track driving the zed is way different to driving the mx5 you have to give it way more respect. Leaving the traction control on most of the day was a very sensible move even though I did have a short go with it off. Unfortunately there were a few car casualties but no injuries, a Westfield spun off into a barrier with front end, a 924 had a rear end somehow and there was a really unlucky spin into the wall along the paddock straight from a tvr t350, very lucky escape and really felt for the driver of this stunning car who walked away unhurt. There was also another azure zed there, did not get a chance to talk to them as they had left early, looked well modded and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a forum member? It was great meeting a whole load if different people with very different setups. It's not easy that's for sure, the concentration is immense and after a short time you can forget which bend your comming upto or what speed your doing into it, then on and off the power all the time you really can get easily confused especially at the end of a fast straight you break a little late and pray the car will stay on, the penny drops as well as your heart when you see the crash barrier is not far beyond. Another thing I found was my head was feeling really hot is this normal lol, thought it was from my brain working overtime. Would like someone to recomend a good roll bar setup that would fit in the zed without removing the interior. Brakes did well with no warp fade or boil. Followed all the advice given checking the cars vital signs, pressures, fluids etc, just wondering how important it is to service the car, the belts need doing at the very least so may do an oil change at the same time. Thx to all !!!! Will post some footage here later,,, if I think it's worth it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanji Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 This car had no traction control at all, he said he was going out for one last lap !!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 ouch that sucks big time. such a shame to see pretty cars wrecked... but if you arent prepared to end the day with a smashed car, you shouldnt be on track. glad the zed held up well - 130 on track miles isnt bad lol, in our beemer we managed nearly double that have to get back on track when its dry - while its fun sliding a car around, i wouldnt want to do it with my pride and joy all day, can imagine the concentration levels are immense! looking forward to seeing footage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This car had no traction control at all, he said he was going out for one last lap !!!!!! Fatal mistake , you never and I repeat never 'go out for one last time ' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus01 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 All cars wear their brakes faster on the inside. Absolute tosh, I look at hundreds of discs and cannot agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Fair enough, you'd know more than me. I was only going on previous experience across various marques, but then I don't see the racing stuff you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Glad to read the track day went well for you Jmanji. Look forward to the video if you feel like sharing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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