Commander Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I found this, and wondered what people's opinions are? http://www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx My view is that both drivers were at fault, but I'm not entirely convinced the car driver should have been prosecuted, although obviously this one article can't possible contain all the facts and opinions and it doesn't say to what extent the car driver was prosecuted, so I'll happily be corrected if needs be. I've been caught out by motorcycles a few times, I tend to find them fairly invisible, especially when they drive in a way very different to everything else on the road - huge rates of acceleration, filtering between lanes of traffic, often wearing lots of black / no hi-vis, etc. I know there are at least a few bikers on here so I'd be interested in your opinions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Any ideas what the driver was prosecuted for? I couldn't see in that article. Silly, silly biker. Not necessarily for the speeds he was doing, or even the location (although overtaking on hatched areas or where they're around is just asking for trouble), but why would you record yourself speeding? I don't get that at all. As far as most bikers round here, and I think I said this the other day, most of them are fine. I give space, they give me a leg wave (which I love!), and all is well. And then there's the pillocks who do 100mph on the dual carriageway, come flying up behind you and then split between you when you're passing another vehicle, just at the point when I'm about to indicate and move over for them they come flying up the inside. Utter morons. Filtering is fine, splitting at crazy speeds is not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 My view on this as both a car driver and a motorbike rider... Biker was daft going that quickly especially as if he had done any advanced rider training, or even any decent learning he would have anticipated (and noticed) the junction ahead, and be ready to slow down (and actually slow down) for the junction, not to a crawl, but heck, at the speed limit at least! Though even at 60mph you can't just swerve out of the way as easily as you can with a car. One thing you learn on your bike, even with lights on, people don't notice you. It's a researched fact called inattentional blindness (http://www.motolight.com/page/481485610) as well as motion induced blindness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion-induced_blindness) seems to affect motorbikes as they are just at the right shape/speed to fall between the gaps so to speak. This is not a mitigation, it is something that is still being understood/researched, but something bikers need to be aware of and ride more defensively as a result. Now, the bike had just overtaken a car, which is possibly why he was going too fast, we've all be told to overtake as quickly as possible to minimise TED (Time exposed to danger), but clearly he didn't slow down. However, the "guilty" car driver didn't notice the car that had just been overtaken either. So that is pretty damning evidence, even if he was motion blinded about the bike, he should have noticed a white car! The white car also had its lights on. When you're cutting across a NSL road, the onus is on you to cross when it is safe, not to make others slow down or change their course. The car clearly just performs the manoeuvre without stopping and therefore can be surmised that they didn't look either. They're both to blame. The biker should have been riding more defensively, and slowed down for the junction. The car driver was also driving carelessly. Ultimately though, a young man has lost his life leaving a hole in people's lives, as well as it being on the conscious of the car driver. No one wins, no one is right or wrong - it's a sad event, and finger pointing and apportioning blame adds nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 This was from The Mirror: The male driver of the Renault Clio David hit appeared in court following the accident. The motorist admitted causing death by careless driving and got a 12 months community sentence in April and an 18 month driving ban. He was also ordered to pay £200 costs with a £60 surcharge and do 130 hours unpaid work. Ch Insp Spinks added: "We know from the footage that David was travelling up to 100mph. Regardless of the speed of the bike, the car manoeuvre should not have been attempted." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Actually, I should clear up that the driver in that vid was an utter tool and deserves to have their licence removed permanently. My last post read more about me apportioning blame to the biker, which wasn't right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ350z Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 In short. As a rider and car driver. Its both their fault. You always have to be prepared if you speed all bikers know this. He got too throttle happy and wasn't riding defensive or even thinking about turnings and junctions. BUT that car driver seriously has the downs... Ive watched the clip just before the accident a good few times now and he/she should have been able to judge the bikes speed. I think some sort of prosecution is fair and from a legal standpoint the car is to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 No one wins, no one is right or wrong - it's a sad event, and finger pointing and apportioning blame adds nothing. Agreed, and just so we're clear, I don't want this to become a finger-pointing exercise in this particular incident; I posted it as much to raise awareness as anything else. I have a number of mates and family who ride bikes and while I personally think they're death traps, bikers are always in the news and hearing people's views is interesting. It's quite heartening to hear people talking about defensive riding attitudes, for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Full respect to his mother for being behind the video being published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Difficult one this. Done 100's of thousands of miles as a pillion, see masses of incidents. The rider was full on speed freak, but good rider who I trusted - well up to 120mph !! (After that I could not hold my head on :-) !!! i cannot get my head around recording your riding speeds either................ I do not think it is easy trying to judge the speed of an oncoming bike. Due to my experiences I just accept they are all in excess of the speed limit and to never underestimate them. Sadly there are many drivers out there with little or no experience of bikes and bikers. Then many riders and drivers really do not read the road, the conditions or have much awareness generally of anything around them. Watching brake lights coming on necessarily on a motorway is proof enough of this - no reading of the road ahead going on there. Part of me - really does due to actions and speeding of the biker - think blame is split here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 terrible... but good on his family for releasing this. Any bike related death, near miss, etc in the news I force myself to watch.. it is the best way to keep me grounded when I am out riding... and it really does stop me riding excessively. not nice to see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I couldnt bring myself to watch it to be honest. In general you get good & bad drivers, regardless of whether they are bikers or lorry drivers so you cant really tar everyone with same brush. From the sounds of it, it was a combination of the biker overtaking without thinking about the junction & the car driver pulling out without looking. As a biker myself, i automatically assume everyone on the road when im out is trying to kill me and so I ride accordingly. I think ive seen it all over the years, including once when a driver who was about to pull out of a junction in front of me, spotted me, stopped her car, had eye contact with me, waited until I got closer to her, then promptly pulled straight out in front of me so I had no choice but to hit the side of her car & superman over the top of it. Then claimed that she didnt see me in my bright red power rangers outfit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin S Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 What a shocker! Poor blighter! I have been a motorcyclist all my life. I have had superbikes capable of 170mph (ZZ-R 1100 anyone?). BUT there is no excuse for riding like that. The speed limit on that road is 60mph so at 100mph he was passing other drivers going at least 40mph faster. That my friends is asking for it. Other drivers are simply not going to register your presence - they're simply not expecting it. On a bike (or in a fast car) you simply have to make allowance for the lack of imagination or attention of other drivers, because it is a fact of life. And work at not falling into the same trap yourself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Blame in the video definitely has to go on both parties involved imo. RIP to the biker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev T Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 That video is extremely traumatic and brought back some bad memories of a similarincident happening to me a few years ago but fortunately at only 30/40 mph so i walked away ( limped ) with only sever bruising, again the driver had the same old story of SMIDSY but later tried to claim it was my fault for going through a set of traffic lights on red which was a complete lie, fortunately the police had a statement from him admitting his guilt so i won the insurance claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 My ex got done for pulling out into a biker. 4pts for careless driving, biker broke his ankle. Stupid bint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ350z Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 My ex got done for pulling out into a biker. 4pts for careless driving, biker broke his ankle. Stupid bint. Haven't heard that word in ages lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Watched the video tonight and as a lifelong motorcyclist until 12 years ago IMO I'm sorry to say that the bike rider was a fool..its plainly obvious that there are clearly marked road lines denoting that there was a potential hazzard..junction, so doing that sort of speed gives you no chance of anticipating what any car driver was going to do, and the fact that it was a junction and a car turned in front of him regardless of any indication or not wouldn't have prevented the accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 More paint on the road, more danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Holy sh*t, just watched that video and it's pretty harrowing to watch someones final moments like that. It's really taken me back and made me think a lot about how I drive, I suppose that's a good thing and the whole point of the video. RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Holy sh*t, just watched that video and it's pretty harrowing to watch someones final moments like that. It's really taken me back and made me think a lot about how I drive, I suppose that's a good thing and the whole point of the video. RIP Exactly... The more people that see this the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomdotc Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 If the biker wasn't doing those speeds, he more than likely wouldn't have hit the car or at least would have had time to slow down and maneuver around the car turning in. Watching this video does make me think about how I drive and I'm sure this video will spread awareness for both car drivers and bikers. RIP to the biker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The speed of the biker at the point of impact was irrelevant, as the car didn't see either the biker nor the white car travelling behind. If you're that blind, then you could hit something travelling at 2mph. If the biker had been doing 60mph, he'd still be dead now most likely. The car driver was incredibly stupid and will have to live with that, but the biker was fool hardy at every point up until the moment of impact. Two sides and all that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) Made a heck of a mess of the car... Edited September 6, 2014 by wmr1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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