TiN Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Not for me (yet...), but just wondering if it is "possible" to not include the most recent employer as a reference? It's a graduate job, so hopefully they're only after character references anyway... On the flip side - can they go off and get references without "approval"? No contact details were provided when the application was made, but obviously you can just search for the company by name and address... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 most places definitely want your most recent employer to give a reference. You can usually start 'losing' things off your CV later on but difficult with your most recent post as they will be providing a P45. If there has been a problem where you think they may give a dodgy reference sometimes it's better to be up front. I told my current employer that I didn't get on with my last boss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It depends on the reason you don't want them to contact them. I have asked at interviews before for them not to contact current employers due to the fact they were unaware of the interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 +1 Nixy. For whatever reasom, we dont always get on with our employers nor would we be expected to. It is quite acceptable to mention the employment and request no references, this would oviously flag up during interview. This actually gives someone a good opportunity to impress whilst explaining the problem. Never easy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan73 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I recently fired 2 employees for a whole host of misconducts (inc. de-frauding the company!) and the legal route is so frustrating but necessary. Just in case I get asked for a reference (they'd be silly to put my name on their application form though!) I had a chat with our legal team recently and contrary to my understanding a previous employer CAN give a negative reference if the statements contained therein are accurate. They cannot however just be vindictive as they put themselves at risk of being sued for damaging the candidates employment prospects. Whenever I'm asked to give a reference now, if I have nothing nice to say I tend not to respond to the reference request. In today's litigious society it's best to keep schtumm... This gives you a view from the 'other side' TiN... BTW, we're looking at the NEW YEAR for our www re-design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Thanks, Well, 'tis for the missus, who has been offered the job, and has been sent the contract etc to look through and fill in. Basically, the her last boss kinda pre-meditated the dismissal, and made up some blurb about "dismissal due to misconduct" (though not of the "gross" variety). We managed to argue it because the points were either petty or invalid, and she blatantly knew that she didn't have a leg to stand on, because she came back with 2 months wages and the P45. I haven't looked at the literature that has come through the post yet, but apparently they don't actually ask for references, but there is something about employment history...can they get around not specifically asking for references like this? Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Such a "caring" employer Johnathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Such a "caring" employer Johnathan Yes the first 4 care... And looking forward to the revamp Jon. Give me a shout if/when you need help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzz... Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I thought most major companies only give factual references and now don't give personal references due to the risk of being sued by the next employer if they where quoted as saying the "sun shines out of MR A.Non posterior with every job he does.." and then he turns out ot be a right waster in the next job... my company will only give a factual reference. Who i am , how long I worked, what position i held etc... no mention of awards, disputes etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugwump Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I thought most major companies only give factual references and now don't give personal references due to the risk of being sued by the next employer if they where quoted as saying the "sun shines out of MR A.Non posterior with every job he does.." and then he turns out ot be a right waster in the next job... my company will only give a factual reference. Who i am , how long I worked, what position i held etc... no mention of awards, disputes etc... +1 thats pretty much the norm from what I understand, plus may reveal sick days etc. If you choose to give an additional "character reference" to support your application from someone you know personally thats fine but your previous employer will be very careful to commit anything more in writing than the bare facts. However "dismissed for misconduct" could be stated as a bare fact. As nixy said, disclosure is probably the best option. If you witheld anything in interview that came to light later you could be dismissed from the new job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyonholiday Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 ANything not disclosed at interview can later be cause for dismissal if it has been asked or implied on a request form. For instance a friend of mine who had some problems when she was 17 in the form of a custodial sentence at for shop lifting now at the age of 36 she failed to include it on an application which asked if she had a criminal record, now given the rehabilitation of offenders she left the section blank as it was more than ten years and legally spent. She was summarily dismissed after the CAB check revelaed the offence, not as the offence was the cause of the dismissal but the "non disclosure" was the offence !!!!! Be honest employers love honesty ! And as for intricate route for dismissal I am at month ten on a disciplinary issue and still cannot legally dismiss even tho the guys has not worked for ten months for one reason or another.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted August 23, 2007 Author Share Posted August 23, 2007 Thanks again the replies. I fully understand the "honesty is the best policy" idea, and have absolutely no intention of stating any untruths. What we've decided to do is suggest preferred references (from previous employers), as those jobs were more tied into the new job anyway. As I said, most of the resentment is due to way that it all happened - the points on the "dimissal" record were largely petty and even untrue, and threatened to withold payment due to some totally unrelated action - and the person who can do such a thing cannot possibly be trusted with providing a reference, especially when someone's future career is at stake! But it was a crappy job, and a crappy little business, run by a stereotypical lady. We got our justice in terms of her admitting that the dismissal may have been unjust, but she's the type of person who would say things under her breath, and you KNOW what she's actually thinking. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan73 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 TiN.... How long did Mrs TiN work at said Company? It appears to me that you may have a REAL case of unfair dismissal. Now, I'm not advocating you follow it up (b'cos I would not like it happening to me!) but Mrs TiN could not be summarily dismissed without proper due process in the form of a disciplinary meeting / suspension with pay. It appears from what you've written, that this Company is a typical small Company that doesn't take too much stock in the Red Tape Bureaucracy BS that ties our hands nowadays. If that is the case I would imagine there is a fair chance that she acted unlawfully when dismissing Mrs TiN. It really is VERY difficult (as TeddyOnHoliday supports) to dismiss someone, even if they have committed a big NoNo. It makes my blood boil b'cos it means Companies have muppets in jobs, draining others' motivation, causing trouble, proving to be inefficient and a nuisance, just b'cos dismissing them would be a minefield :rant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 if they don't ask for your most recent job as a referee then don't give it - give ones that you would prefer. As stated before, usually they only ask for facts such as - attendance, sick, time keeping but the biggie is "would you employ this person again" to which they can obviously say no. However, if you get glowing references from past jobs and then a dodgy one from the current job it would explain that the problem seems to be with the latest employer and not your wife. Why don't you get somebody you know with a business to write to them and ask for a reference as if they are giving your wife a job and see what comes back just to set your mind at rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted August 23, 2007 Author Share Posted August 23, 2007 Jon - she had been there a total of around 12 months, but she wasn't properly full-time until June/July. We don't really have the extra energy of malice to take it further than we did, but yeah, after a bit of digging around about employment law etc, I basically wrote a "nice" letter that outlined how the dimissal procedure she followed was inappropriate, blah blah, and if she attempts to withold the owed salary (she convenient presented the dimissal right at the end of the calendar month - i.e. when the pay is due), then we would have no alternative but to seek further advice. One "joke" of an excuse that was on the list of "reasons for dismissal" - using the staff discount to help a friend purchase a gift - in itself, I would understand that the original sentiment of a staff discount could be interpreted in different ways, but there was never any clarification on contravening circumstances to this "benefit", and it was a one-off occurance anyway! But the real kicker - when she realised that she couldn't BS her way out of paying etc, and noticed that her "reasons" were as petty as she was, she couldn't resist taking a parting shot - and said that the "abuse" of the staff discount could constitute as theft! Why don't you get somebody you know with a business to write to them and ask for a reference as if they are giving your wife a job and see what comes back just to set your mind at rest? Hmm, I never even thought of that! Good plan, but probably won't help much on this occasion, cos the deadline for getting all of the contracts etc returned is less than a week away. But it might be worth doing anyway, even if just for a larf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 It just lets you know what they will put and if they will lie - may put her mind at rest for future jobs. I've done it before! You could even just get a pal to do it for you on some mocked up letterhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted August 23, 2007 Author Share Posted August 23, 2007 Well, just got a response from the HR of the company. It's not really much clearer, but they ideally want at least a confirmation of the dates of employment from the employer. Just a thought - would it be ok/appropriate to go to the ex-boss now, and get a letter-headed and signed statement to confirm the basics of the period of employment? And then provide this with the signed contract (and write something to explain)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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