JetSet Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 This is how most UK roads are 99% most of the traffic tailgating in the outside lane :headbang: Sent from the golf club... Yes Dave, a very good example, those cars are 2 to 3 cars too close. I'd estimate that 90% of drivers drive too close, 50% drive far too close with 15% driving dangerously close. I'd also estimate that 95% of drivers vastly overestimate their driving ability. I've managed 45 years at an average of 10-12k a year without a single accident and I don't consider myself to be a good driver either, safe, yes, good, no. To be clear though, I don't want to see the speed limits decreased or increased, I think the current 70 , which let's face it means 80 in practice is just about right. Its better driver education needed. It's difficult to know what more we can do on education really, we already have a fairly tough driving test , much tougher than when I passed mine for example. All governments in my lifetime have spent millions on drink driving campaigns, and safety belt wearing...clunk click every trip. Everyone must by now know it's an offense to use a mobile while driving but millions still do it. Start dishing out £1000 penalties for these offences Sounds good to me. I'd also add £1000 for each further mobile offense. I'd also fine companies that don't provide a hands free system for their employees who need to keep in contact with their place of work or customers, HGV drivers, reps, that sort of thing. Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bockaaarck Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Driver education is the key, middle lane driving is more or less a constant on the M40. I believe the education has to start as young as possible, perhaps as part of school road safety and road awareness programmes. Sowing the seed at that point hopefully means we will reap the benefit as that generation grows up and begins to drive. Sadly, I expect to see the kind of behaviour on the roads I drive, that we've all been rightly criticising. I expect it and drive accordingly. I think changing the habits of those currently driving can preferably be improved by education but also tempered by significant fines if appropriate. I genuinely believe the issue is the a lot of drivers don't think and drive 'lazy'. I think that's where this middle lane, no anticipation, poor road spacing and selfish attitude comes from I don't like driving on a road at 70mph with lazy selfish people all around me. They're the kind of people who cause accidents. It's up to us all to be vigilant, drive thoughtfully / safely and anticipate idiocy. Hopefully that will keep us all in one piece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I must admit I have been surprised by the young ages of middle lane morons, I always take a look as i pass with the expectation of them being of the older generation, perhaps wrongly! Even took a drive with a couple of mates (early 30's) to collect a jet ski recently, long m way trip, I didnt say anything but he sat in the middle lane, on the way back someone was flashing and he said I wonder why he is fashing, I then said, probably because your sat in the middle lane with nothing on the inside, the other mate then said, but we are doing the speed limit he shoulnt be overtaking anyway. So to play devils advocate, does he have a point as you will find this is the attitude of many many drivers, until recently lane discipline is not breaking the law, but speeding is? Does a law need to bought in where unless you are overtaking you cant be in the outer 2 lanes? Do we forget lane discipline altogether and allow m ways to be used like highways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^ the middle lane is for overtaking though Education is the key, how many times have we all been bombing along (legally) in the outside lane then got bunched up when NOBODY is in the inside lane. I am totally against undertaking but you can see why it happens sometimes! Sent from the golf club... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^ the middle lane is for overtaking though Totally agree, but there Is no law against being in it if your not overtaking, but there is a law against speeding. That is where the argument will lie, if someone is doing 70mph in the middle lane with nothing else in front of them, by the letter of the law, why should they move over for someone breaking the law? I am afraid thats peoples attitude, personally I use the Inside lane at all times, draws less attention to yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 My thoughts: Speed limits were set (30 mph in 1934 and 70mph in 1965) when the majority of cars/vans/lorries at that time were a liability at anything over those limits. We are now nearly fifty years on from the 70 limit being set and car technology has moved on just a bit ( ) remembering that motorways were originally conceived to get traffic around the country more quickly. What has happened? With the number of vehicles on the road having increased dramatically since 1965, the congestion has slowed traffic to the point where areas of the motorways need gantry signs to slow us even more. Fair enough, I can see the merit in that given accident potential is inherently more dangerous as vehicles bunch up simply by the pure numbers on the road. But when the motorways are running freely all we see is drivers testing the 70 limit - and we all know that if you stick to 70 you are going to be passed by all and sundry with the outside lane often being the more congested as drivers add a few mph more and pressure the car/van in in front to move over. Now I admit to not knowing the accident comparison stats between German autobahns and our motorways and I have also never driven on the autobahns, but if those deristricted roads were causing horrendus levels of accidents I have no doubt they would not be deristricted now. Which begs the thoughts in my mind that drivers become more attuned to differential speeds and greater respect is given to those cars which are seen to be quite capable of travelling safely at 100mph+. i.e. there is not the need to prove 'mine is quicker than yours or my journey is more important than yours @ 70mph'. It seems to end the tailgating (the most dangerous aspect in my book on motorways) and means everyone gets to their destination both quicker and more safely. Oh, and the sooner lorries are given an overtake button or similar, particularly on two lane motorways, the better for safety all round rather than the several miles it will take some to complete their overtake given the speed limits they are set 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 My thoughts: Speed limits were set (30 mph in 1934 and 70mph in 1965) when the majority of cars/vans/lorries at that time were a liability at anything over those limits. We are now nearly fifty years on from the 70 limit being set and car technology has moved on just a bit ( ) remembering that motorways were originally conceived to get traffic around the country more quickly. What has happened? With the number of vehicles on the road having increased dramatically since 1965, the congestion has slowed traffic to the point where areas of the motorways need gantry signs to slow us even more. Fair enough, I can see the merit in that given accident potential is inherently more dangerous as vehicles bunch up simply by the pure numbers on the road. But when the motorways are running freely all we see is divers testing the 70 limit - and we all know that if you stick to 70 you are going to be passed by all and sundry with the outside lane often being the more congested as drivers add a few mph more and pressure the car/van in in front to move over. Now I admit to not knowing the accident comparison stats between German autobahns and our motorways and I have also never driven on the autobahns, but if those deristricted roads were causing horrendus levels of accidents I have no doubt they would not be deristricted now. Which begs the thoughts in my mind that drivers become more attuned to differential speeds and greater respect is given to those cars which are seen to be quite capable of travelling safely at 100mph+. i.e. there is not the need to prove 'mine is quicker than yours or my journey is more important than yours @ 70mph'. It seems to end the tailgating (the most dangerous aspect in my book on motorways) and means everyone gets to their destination both quicker and more safely. Oh, and the sooner lorries are given an overtake button or similar, particularly on two lane motorways, the better for safety all round rather than the several miles it will take some to complete their overtake given the speed limits they are set I dont have any stats to hand but i wonder what the average family saloon of the last decade stops in from 70mph? I would reckon half the highway code stopping distances?? The problem you have there is there are some absolute bags of nails still using the roads, although they might well be "safe" enough to pass an Mot, they certainly wont stop in anything like the distance of a recent car. So a modern car travelling at 70 has to haul up fast, the old bag of nails is just going to plough into the back of it! Its not an equal playing field, maybe a stricter mot get some of the sheds off the road? As is often discussed on here, been pulled for speeding, blah blah blah, nothing else on the road etc etc So how about having certain limits at certain times of day (weather conditions pending), like 12am - 6am, 100mph (m roads) or whatever. I bet this would also reduce congestion as a good % would choose to travel within that time frame, if the journey was non essential?? You could also use the overtake for lorries button and apply a reduction in ved if they travel within certain times? I think there are some very obvious and easy solutions to congestion, but there will always be someone who decides to crusade against change and sadly thats were any government is too weak and its always a good way to fleece us under the pollution and green banner. I dont think they actually want to reduce congestion, just keep charging us more to use the roads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It's odd that everyone on this forum seems to claim to keep in the left hand lane but the only 350Zs and 370Zs I've seen on motorways always seem to be powering along in the right hand lane. Same goes for GTRs (and every single BMW or Audi repmobile). I, of course, keep to the left hand lane at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The only time I will stay right longer than required is if I'm travelling in convoy with people who's driving I'm not familiar with, just to make sure we stay together. Any other time, I keep left obsessively. Basically, if you could move left and you don't, then you're as much of the problem as anyone else regardless of what you drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 ^ the middle lane is for overtaking though Totally agree, but there Is no law against being in it if your not overtaking, but there is a law against speeding. Errr... https://www.gov.uk/m...line-264-to-266 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 ^ the middle lane is for overtaking though Totally agree, but there Is no law against being in it if your not overtaking, but there is a law against speeding. Errr... https://www.gov.uk/m...line-264-to-266 I was going to say that but you beat me to it Chris. I am as bad as everyone else, I barrel along in lane 3 but I do find nowadays far more people get out of my way than they ever did before Sent from the golf club... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So when did you guys last know someone being fined for middle lane hogging, it may well be in the highway code but its not enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It's not just in the highway code, it's also now in the RTA and you can get an FPN for it. And no, sadly it's not enforced because we have less trafpol to enforce it, plus speed is easy to enforce via cams. Which is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So when did you guys last know someone being fined for middle lane hogging, it may well be in the highway code but its not enforced. Middle lane hogging, hmm, If you're on a busy motorway then I can understand why people do it. If you move into the inside lane and there's a truck say 1/4 mile ahead by the time you come to pass it can be so difficult to get back into the middle lane as cars are driving in bunches so close together. Just to be fair, we all complain about the standard of driving but has anyone here driven in Spain, Belgium, France, The U.S.A, etc . Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) But because others are driving like knobs, doesn't mean you should too. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Edited July 13, 2014 by Ekona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Now I admit to not knowing the accident comparison stats between German autobahns and our motorways The latest figures I can find are from 2008. Deaths on German Motorways 495, Deaths on U.K Motorways 157. 67% of German Motorway deaths are on unrestricted sections. Of course Germany probably has more Motorways than us but if we look at % then 12% of all road deaths in Germany are on Motorways compared to 6% in The U.K. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But because others are driving like knobs, doesn't mean you should too. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If that comment was aimed at me then you can rest assured that I don't drive like a knob. I've yet to have any sort of accident in the 45 years since I passed my test, how long did you manage . Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It wasn't aimed at you, it was a general comment. Unless you do sit in the middle lane of course, in which case it was aimed at you and you are a knob. Well done on not having any accidents, that's good going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 its 60mph on the highways everywhere in Canada . . seems to take forever to get anywhere . . but at least you get more time to take in the scenery Having spent an unfortnate amount of time on the highways of Ontario I can confirm that the sheer size of Canada renders a 60mph limit somewhat ridiculous and the scenery isn't much compensation because the place is so damn flat. However 60mph does make more sense in the context of -40c weather conditions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But because others are driving like knobs, doesn't mean you should too. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If that comment was aimed at me then you can rest assured that I don't drive like a knob. I've yet to have any sort of accident in the 45 years since I passed my test, how long did you manage . Pete You never go fast enough to have an accident Sent from the golf club... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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