WhackyWill Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Here's a nice light one..!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am not sure even you can argue against Nissans engineering! How much more special than a just over 7 min lap do you want? Much more, because it should be capable of much more. In exactly the same way as I want Porsche to build a 918 special without the batteries, less weight can only ever be a good thing. If the GTR being heavy is done to improve performance, why does every single team racing one strip it out? However good Nissan's engineering team are, they're probably not quite good enough to break the laws of physics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Pretty much what I just said. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have a 2004 Caterham R500 Superlight. It tells the driver all you need to know about adding lightness. 265 bhp. 450 kgs. 0-60 around 2.5 and 0-100 in under 7. From 4 non-charged cylinders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have a 2004 Caterham R500 Superlight. It tells the driver all you need to know about adding lightness. 265 bhp. 450 kgs. 0-60 around 2.5 and 0-100 in under 7. From 4 non-charged cylinders. Great car..Proper "pocket rocket" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Every extra kg is weight that needs to be moved forward, stopped and turned. WHERE you lose it also plays a part. Weight lost from the wheels or drivetrain has a bigger effect than say lighter seats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Every extra kg is weight that needs to be moved forward, stopped and turned. WHERE you lose it also plays a part. Weight lost from the wheels or drivetrain has a bigger effect than say lighter seats. That's very true, I just changed my wheels from standard GT wheels to Forged Rays I'm amazed the difference its made to the drive and handling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensh65 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So the nismo has back seats :s and the track pack doesn't?? Who buys a focused car and thinks,mmmm needs to be practical?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Weight is a massive problem, however powerful the engine you have. Why the GTR is still the same weight as a diesel luxobarge I cannot fathom. The GTR hides it's bulk well. But HOW good if it was 200kgs less! Easy to do, too. Make it a foot shorter, 2 seats, lighter panels, less spec. Obviously its not for the GTR, who cares that it weighs the same as a diesel luxobarge when it does what it does, why does it matter? I am not sure even you can argue against Nissans engineering! How much more special than a just over 7 min lap do you want? Much more, because it should be capable of much more. In exactly the same way as I want Porsche to build a 918 special without the batteries, less weight can only ever be a good thing. If the GTR being heavy is done to improve performance, why does every single team racing one strip it out? However good Nissan's engineering team are, they're probably not quite good enough to break the laws of physics. Well they kind of have havent they? Your dream car garage 911 gt2 rs can only manage 7.24 lap time, 1370kg & 612bhp, so where is its lack of weight (a lot of weight) and slightly more hp helping there?? Its £125k and capable of way way more than comparable value cars and ones that cost more and weigh less! It would be a different story if the weight was an issue, its not, so why is it for people on here? It is what it is, does what it does, the weight is absolutely irrelevant when its throwing down times other manufacturers cant even get close too with their lighter cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't think I've ever put a GT2RS in a dream garage, but it's definitely a car I'd love to own! And you've made your own point, because the GT2RS is quicker than the GT2 because it weighs less and has more power My point isn't that it's rubbish because it weighs so much, it's that it could be so much better if they took the weight out. Again, if weight in the GTR was such a good thing why do all the race teams remove it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'd benefit greatly from shedding some of my excess middle aged man weight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Every race bike and race car I have driven or owned have stripped weight out to go quicker. The GTR does what it does DESPITE the lard, not because of it. Every car and bike I have had has been quicker, handled better and stopped quicker if I lightened it. Which is a fair few. If the GTR was to shed 150 kgs it could use smaller, lighter wheels and brakes, for one thing. Weight means heat, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't think I've ever put a GT2RS in a dream garage, but it's definitely a car I'd love to own! And you've made your own point, because the GT2RS is quicker than the GT2 because it weighs less and has more power My point isn't that it's rubbish because it weighs so much, it's that it could be so much better if they took the weight out. Again, if weight in the GTR was such a good thing why do all the race teams remove it? Every race bike and race car I have driven or owned have stripped weight out to go quicker. The GTR does what it does DESPITE the lard, not because of it. Every car and bike I have had has been quicker, handled better and stopped quicker if I lightened it. Which is a fair few. If the GTR was to shed 150 kgs it could use smaller, lighter wheels and brakes, for one thing. Weight means heat, too. I havent suggested anywhere the weight is necessary, just it doesnt matter, in this case! Its absolutely irrelevant what race teams do, this is a road car, not a race car! I am also not saying it wouldnt go faster without less weight, again, just saying when its that quick, what does how much it weighs matter? Why be so fixated with its weight when it is that fast, if it had put down a time similar to its rivals and needed to shed some pounds to be faster, great, but it doesnt, its leagues ahead! To be be brutally honest, there probably isnt one person on this forum who could get close to driving that car to its full capabilities anyway, so to be banging on about weight is just keyboard warriors trying to justify their own self induced, self importance (me included), massaging their own egos to what they think is right! Its ludicrously quick, its heavy, Nissan engineers obviously know better than any of us, end of 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensh65 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The other thing to bare in mind is that manufacturers charge you more to give you less. I am sure they could make every panel, interior trim etc in carbon fibre. That all comes at a cost and the biggest appeal about the GT-R is how its affordable and can kill off cars 3 times its value on the road and on track. They could easily the price of the Nismo closer to the 200K bracket but then who would buy it? I would imagine it would be an absolute beast of a motor but 200K for a Nissan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drginger Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm quite impressed by the combined 24mpg :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) One of the things that makes it heavy is the drivetrain and how it transfers power from the rear to the front. Porche 918 - would it be as good with out the batteries - NO! Would it have come close to the Nurburgring laptime it did?? No again... NISSAN GT-R: KAZUTOSHI MIZUNO INTERVIEW Part I of PH's exclusive video interview with the Nissan GT-R program chief Last month PistonHeads was invited to visit Nissan's Nurburgring Technical Centre for an exclusive interview with the 'father of the GT-R', the car's program manager and chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno. PH Editor Chris-R posed questions based on suggestions from the PH forums, and we captured Mizuno san's answers on camera. Check out the film clips below, for some fascinating insights into the mind of this famously single-minded chief engineer, and his philosophy about the GT-R project. The fount of all GT-R knowledge very kindly answered all our questions in English, making frequent use of the office whiteboard to illustrate various points. Without blowing the PH trumpet too loudly, we're forced to say that GT-R 'geekery' doesn't get much better than this. So pay attention class, and take it away Mizuno san.. Q1) For such a high performance machine, the GT-R is a big car and heavy one. Tell us why that is? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nGiZKQmODA Q2) So what is the best way to reduce weight from the R35 to make it perform better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1izuj3ku8k Edited July 3, 2014 by grahamc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Q3) In your previous answer, you seemed to be telling us the parameters of 1700kgs weight and 485hp were set from the beginning of the project, is that correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXtOYrL67Fo Q4) Why did you opt for a V6 engine, instead of an engine with more cylinders? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf8rADuMcLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Q5) What about the transaxle - some competitors have seven or eight speeds, so why does the GT-R have only six? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc5wIKGnC0k Q6) The R34 had the HICAS rear wheel steering system. Why didn't that make it onto the latest GT-R? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gil9Utvq2GM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I don't see anyone here massaging their ego on either side of the debate. Certainly not me. I am using years of experience with road and race bikes and cars. That's all. I suspect that the cost is the reason for no weight reduction since it's birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak 370 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It's my next car, one I have driven but not yet owned. But weight is too high. Or has every single other maker got it all wrong with their cars? Maybe if Ferrari added 300 kgs to the 458 it would be BETTER? (Noooooooooooooooo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Porche 918 - would it be as good with out the batteries - NO! Would it have come close to the Nurburgring laptime it did?? No again... Depends on how you define good. I care little for laptimes these days and more about the driving experience, and in my own experiences I know just how better a car can be when you remove the weight. Would the 918 be any quicker? Well, maybe or maybe not (depends on whether they kept the 4WD), but would it arguably feel a lot more fun? Almost without doubt. Would the GT-R be quicker if it shed weight? Yes, absolutely it would. Physics are tricky things to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I care little for laptimes these days and more about the driving experience Would the GT-R be quicker if it shed weight? Yes, absolutely it would. Physics are tricky things to beat. Your spot on and if thats your bag there are plenty of cars that fit the bill, Caterhams, Ariels, Bac Mono and lightweight specials, 360CS, Gt Rs's etc, but that point you would care little about the Gtr, yet it seems to bother you how much it weighs! In reality the members that are discussing its weight are only arguing with them selves and own sense of what makes a car fast! There is no denying loosing weight equates to quicker lap times (never said it has), but in this case, it literally makes zero sense that the Gtr is so quick when it weighs so much, but it is, why all the fuss about its weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraziekatz1 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Just remember....muscle weighs more than fat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Wow, cant believe that people actually accept Nissans bullshit about the weight rather than the laws of Physics. It would be faster and handle better if it was lighter, the same as every other vehicle thats ever been produced. I personally reckon the new Cayman S is a faster car than a GTR simply because of the weight difference. A 1700KG "track special" is pushing it a bit IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Porche 918 - would it be as good with out the batteries - NO! Would it have come close to the Nurburgring laptime it did?? No again... Depends on how you define good. I care little for laptimes these days and more about the driving experience, and in my own experiences I know just how better a car can be when you remove the weight. Would the 918 be any quicker? Well, maybe or maybe not (depends on whether they kept the 4WD), but would it arguably feel a lot more fun? Almost without doubt. Would the GT-R be quicker if it shed weight? Yes, absolutely it would. Physics are tricky things to beat. It would be quicker (more than likely), but at what point does light become too light? At some point the car is going to require so much aero weight in order to be able to put the power down. It's my next car, one I have driven but not yet owned. But weight is too high. Or has every single other maker got it all wrong with their cars? Maybe if Ferrari added 300 kgs to the 458 it would be BETTER? (Noooooooooooooooo). Depends on your definition of "better" Porche 918 - would it be as good with out the batteries - NO! Would it have come close to the Nurburgring laptime it did?? No again... Depends on how you define good. I care little for laptimes these days and more about the driving experience, and in my own experiences I know just how better a car can be when you remove the weight. Would the 918 be any quicker? Well, maybe or maybe not (depends on whether they kept the 4WD), but would it arguably feel a lot more fun? Almost without doubt. Would the GT-R be quicker if it shed weight? Yes, absolutely it would. Physics are tricky things to beat. Better in what way? If you are not interested in lap times, why do you care what it weighs? If fun is the measurement, then the GTR needs to lose its active 4WD system, not the weight. Have you driven a GTR? In more than just a test drive capacity? Just remember....muscle weighs more than fat hahaaa, love that!!!! Wow, cant believe that people actually accept Nissans bullshit about the weight rather than the laws of Physics. It would be faster and handle better if it was lighter, the same as every other vehicle thats ever been produced. I personally reckon the new Cayman S is a faster car than a GTR simply because of the weight difference. A 1700KG "track special" is pushing it a bit IMO. No I dont, but at some point (not sure what point that is) the GTR will just end up spinning all its wheels with too much power and too light holding it to the road. Which is where aero is required (hence why cars like the Caparo cant be driven slowly - not enough holding on the road). Nissan has stated that they believe they got that balance right with the GTR, they have also gone out and destroyed cars that are lighter and more powerful Good enough for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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