Dicky Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 This is a little long winded but you'll get a laugh. Had an oil leak on my wife's Zafira. Took it to my local garage who said it was coming from the crank shaft oil seal. It was a big job, gear box out, steering bits disconnected, clutch out etc etc. They did the work, I paid the bill. A few days later it was still dropping oil so took it back. The owner rang a day or so later saying he'd finished, I asked what the problem was, he said bad workmanship and he'd sacked the mechanic who did it. A few days later it was still dropping oil. Booked it in again and after the full day the owners son called to say it was finished. This is where it gets really unbelievable. The son said the oil loss was because the air intake wasn't on correctly (it was as I had fitted it just a day earlier and was certain it was on correctly) this caused the engine to run rich causing additional pressure in the oil system and pushing oil past the seal. ha ha ha ha Next day oil was still dripping (of course it was) so took it back and told the son I wasn't a complete dope so to do the job again and get it right. Two days later the owner rang in the morning saying the seal had scratched the seal housing and how this was a common problem on Vauxhalls. I went down to the garage to look at it and the seal had no metal showing anywhere, in fact it had a rubberised coating. I told him to take the seal out and check the crank for damage in case his sacked moron had used a hammer and screwdriver to remove the original seal. An hour later he rang again, to say the crank was damaged, so down I went again. The end boss of the crank over which the seal fits and against which the seal lip acts had a perfectly concentric groove in the metal all around its diameter right where the rubber (viton) of the seal sits. Get ready cos his next statement is being entered into the forums "MOST PATHETIC BULLSHIT STATEMENT" competition. What's caused that I asked ? " the groove's been caused by the rubber lip seal" WHAT! you mean the rubber has cut through hardened steel? " Yes I've seen it before and my mate who works for Vauxhall says it's a common fault" Is that so I said. So nearly all the Vauxhalls in the world are dropping oil right now because of rubber seals cutting into the steel, is that what your telling me"? Yes he said. F--K off I said, are you for real! Isn't it more likely that the seals been fitted incorrectly exposing the st st spring located directly behind the lip seal to the crank face. In fact I took the spring off the seal and it matched perfectly the radius of the groove. No he insisted the rubber lip has caused the groove. F--k off I said. Anyway the the argument carried on into the next day when I told him unless he replaced the crank I would hire a low loader, take it to a main dealer for their report and would get an IAEA engineer as well to produce a report I could use in court. He rang today still insisting it was the seal that caused the damage but he was going to fit a reconditioned crank but expected a contribution from me. F--k off I told him, this is all down to you otherwise hire yourself a brain dead legal team cos no one with a brain would represent him. I also told him I wanted a copy of all invoices and all data relating to the crank replacement so I can check it all out with his suppliers. Anyone been offered a better lame excuse ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Unreal and no, I've been told better outright lies though by one or two garages. Hope you get it sorted mate, maybe Ricey should write them a "nice" letter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Nothing on that scale, but I was fed bullsh!t from a trader on here about my car when it was being tuned. I of course don't go there anymore, despite them ripping me off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Worst excuse i had was from a tyre fitters. They couldnt fit tyres to my new wheels because the sidewalls were too stiff & theres no way they could fit them without damaging my wheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 This guy is so stupid that before getting his brain into gear he told me the seal I was looking at was the one fitted by the sacked mechanic. Incidentally it was covered in sealant, internal and external surfaces. I asked him, why would you strip the car down again on the second occasion and not fit a new seal if that's where the leak was. Why would you just squirt loads of sealant at if you didn't already know what the fault was and were trying to bodge it up in the hope it would last for a while then you could blame something else. What troubles me though is how many poor people get fooled by such lies and just pay up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 What a robbing bullsh**ting git. When my Subaru engine went bang for the second time the sh*t engine builder I had unfortunately used tried to tell me that the reason the con rod had snapped and gone through the block was because the petrol station I had used (Shell ~ Vpower unleaded fuel) had water in it's fuel ~ water doesn't compress he told me which is why the conrod bent & snapped. Obviously just trying to pass the blame onto Shell as really the cause was because he had fitted inferior parts not capable of handling the power the car was running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 What a robbing bullsh**ting git. When my Subaru engine went bang for the second time the sh*t engine builder I had unfortunately used tried to tell me that the reason the con rod had snapped and gone through the block was because the petrol station I had used (Shell ~ Vpower unleaded fuel) had water in it's fuel ~ water doesn't compress he told me which is why the conrod bent & snapped. Obviously just trying to pass the blame onto Shell as really the cause was because he had fitted inferior parts not capable of handling the power the car was running. It's Bloody frightening isn't it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It is Dicky ~ hate to think of all the people these type of people fleece at their garages. Even Quick Fit tried a con on my 60 something year old mother once ~ told her she needed new front discs & pads on her Renault Megane after a free brake test they offered whilst getting new tyres. She told me when she came home so I had a look and told her there was loads of life left in both. Her favoured local independent garage told her the same thing that I had said so luckily she dodged the con men there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The seals do wear the crank - believe it or not. Most engines will have a groove in the crank where the oil seal goes. Shouldn't leak though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 The seals do wear the crank - believe it or not. Most engines will have a groove in the crank where the oil seal goes. Shouldn't leak though. This was such a precise cut in the crank it could only have been made by the spring and it was the seal he had fitted that he was blaming not the original seal. I would expect the viton to wear considerably faster than hardened steel or cast iron if that's what the cranks made of. If your right and some wear does take place it must be very very marginal and after a couple of hundred thousand miles or so. In fact I've read how seals are supposed to work. If I understand correctly the viton doesn't even touch the shaft because of capillary action of the oil which causes the lip to lift slightly on a cushion of oil and that's presumably one of the reasons the spring is fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADPHONES Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Way back when I had a Honda Prelude I went to a local garage coz my rear brakes were squealing. Their forecourt was full so I parked across the road. Explained my problem to the garage owner. He looked ACROSS the road at my car and said "Ahhhh.....those Honda's have discs instead of drums.....discs are notorious for warping......I see this all the time......you need new discs and pads!" Playing along I replied "oh....do you recommend I buy a car with drums next time?" "Yep.....but only way to fix yours is new discs and pads." This mechanic must be the world record holder for fastest fault diagnosis by looking at the car FROM ACROSS THE ROAD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2orry Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) The seals do wear the crank - believe it or not. Most engines will have a groove in the crank where the oil seal goes. Shouldn't leak though. +1on that it's very common you can usually feel it with your finger nail .more of a chance he has scored the seat that the seal fits in to. Edited June 19, 2014 by a2orry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 i always service my wife's car before the mot so we dont get any suprises last year changed all the fluids/filters even did the brake fluid pads were low and discs were borderline so changed the lot she had to take it for the mot as i had a delivery coming so i get a phone call from her she's at the test centre and they're gonna fail the car because they said the pads needed replacing and it's best to replace the discs at the same time i went down there (luckily only 5 min drive) to discuss the problem, after discussing his parentage and my opinion on what tools in the garage i would like to insert into his various orifices i asked him to remove a wheel and show me the pads which were apparently down to the backplates he didnt want to do this and a short time later the owner arrived and the car magically passed i told him it was very nice of him not to charge for the mot and he agreed that that would be best as you can guess i wont be going there this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) This was such a precise cut in the crank it could only have been made by the spring and it was the seal he had fitted that he was blaming not the original seal. I would expect the viton to wear considerably faster than hardened steel or cast iron if that's what the cranks made of. If your right and some wear does take place it must be very very marginal and after a couple of hundred thousand miles or so You can get a significant grove just from the seal. Heres an example of typical wear. They can often get deeper. Happens to most cranks - I've got a load like it... Edited June 19, 2014 by Jez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Used sh!t fit once for a tyre change, they offered a few vehicle check, they came back to tell me the starter motor was on its way out and needed changing. Interesting I said, what makes you think its on the way out? We test it was the reply. Funny I said, I had it replaced last week. Bloke went very quiet, got the tyre change for free. That was the first and last time I ever went to Kwik fit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobie140 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 That's a pretty tame groove, I've seen some good ones in my time working on some of the old kit at work. It's amazing how far it can go before it starts passing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Thanks Jez, but I also spoke with an RAC engineer, two main dealer workshop foreman, an IAEA engineer and none thought the lip seal would cut into the crank nor did Vauxhall have any TSB's to suggest there has ever been an issue with oil seals cutting into the crank cause oil leaks. Anyway he never once suggested the problem was with the original seal only his replacement which had operated for way less miles. It's difficult to assess the wear in your picture Jez but mine looked like a more precise cut rather than a smooth ridge and several thou deep. I didn't mention it above but on the second occasion of stripping down to check the leak he didn't replace the leaking oil seal, he just covered the internal and external faces of the seal with sealant. Why would you do that. He must have noticed the groove and tried to bodge it, otherwise he would have hit me with the problem then. None of it adds up! Below are two statements taken from an article I read on how seals work.(by the way I meant the groove was around the circumference not the diameter in my rant above). AND ENGLAND ARE OUT OF THE WORLD CUP AGAIN AS WELL. Does god care about me at all! HOW DOES THE SEAL WORK? The automotive radial lip seal works by creating a thin layer of oil between the sealing lip and shaft journal. Capillary action causes the oil to seep between the lip and the shaft, which results in the oil lifting the sealing lip clear of the shaft. This thin layer is retained, and prevents leakage of the oil past the sealing lip. It is important to ensure that the seal is fitted square in the housing and perpendicular to the shaft and that end float and radial shaft run out is not excessive. LUBRICATION The sealing lip of the oil seal should never be in contact with the shaft. If this were the case, the seal would wear out in a matter of hours, therefore precaution must be taken that the seal is correctly lubricated prior to fitting. If this lubrication is not present, burning of the seal lip can occur, which could lead ultimately to seal failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 i always service my wife's car before the mot so we dont get any suprises last year changed all the fluids/filters even did the brake fluid pads were low and discs were borderline so changed the lot she had to take it for the mot as i had a delivery coming so i get a phone call from her she's at the test centre and they're gonna fail the car because they said the pads needed replacing and it's best to replace the discs at the same time i went down there (luckily only 5 min drive) to discuss the problem, after discussing his parentage and my opinion on what tools in the garage i would like to insert into his various orifices i asked him to remove a wheel and show me the pads which were apparently down to the backplates he didnt want to do this and a short time later the owner arrived and the car magically passed i told him it was very nice of him not to charge for the mot and he agreed that that would be best as you can guess i wont be going there this year Supposedly the best place to go for an MOT is a council run MOT test centre, they won't fix anything and they don't sell parts or have any affiliates who do so any failures/advisories will be genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimboy2 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 i always service my wife's car before the mot so we dont get any suprises last year changed all the fluids/filters even did the brake fluid pads were low and discs were borderline so changed the lot she had to take it for the mot as i had a delivery coming so i get a phone call from her she's at the test centre and they're gonna fail the car because they said the pads needed replacing and it's best to replace the discs at the same time i went down there (luckily only 5 min drive) to discuss the problem, after discussing his parentage and my opinion on what tools in the garage i would like to insert into his various orifices i asked him to remove a wheel and show me the pads which were apparently down to the backplates he didnt want to do this and a short time later the owner arrived and the car magically passed i told him it was very nice of him not to charge for the mot and he agreed that that would be best as you can guess i wont be going there this year Supposedly the best place to go for an MOT is a council run MOT test centre, they won't fix anything and they don't sell parts or have any affiliates who do so any failures/advisories will be genuine. But if they won't fix anything will they just fail it on the stupidest little things? Like headlight adjustment. Would they bother adjusting it to get it passed or fail you and let you deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 i always service my wife's car before the mot so we dont get any suprises last year changed all the fluids/filters even did the brake fluid pads were low and discs were borderline so changed the lot she had to take it for the mot as i had a delivery coming so i get a phone call from her she's at the test centre and they're gonna fail the car because they said the pads needed replacing and it's best to replace the discs at the same time i went down there (luckily only 5 min drive) to discuss the problem, after discussing his parentage and my opinion on what tools in the garage i would like to insert into his various orifices i asked him to remove a wheel and show me the pads which were apparently down to the backplates he didnt want to do this and a short time later the owner arrived and the car magically passed i told him it was very nice of him not to charge for the mot and he agreed that that would be best as you can guess i wont be going there this year Supposedly the best place to go for an MOT is a council run MOT test centre, they won't fix anything and they don't sell parts or have any affiliates who do so any failures/advisories will be genuine. But if they won't fix anything will they just fail it on the stupidest little things? Like headlight adjustment. Would they bother adjusting it to get it passed or fail you and let you deal with it. they've got no reason to fail it on stupid things. headlights are allowed to be adjusted during the test so I'd imagine something like that they'd do. I've never done it myself as I have a friendly mot centre I use, it's just something which comes up a lot on money saving websites etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy.farrow7 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I was working away offshore, and my girlfriends car was due its mot 2 days before I came home, her car passed the mot however the mechanic recommended that she get 2 new tyres as hers were worn (not worn enough to fail the Mot or even get an advisory) I told her to leave it and I would sort it when I came home, I got home and her tyres were fine the lowest tread was about 4mm and there was no cracking or serious wear marks on the tyres. Just talking @*!# to a woman trying to get her to fork out!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Just to wrap this one up. After more excuses from him and threats of IAEA reports and court action from me he finally agreed to fit a refurbished crank along with new shells etc. Collected the car this morning and asked to see my original crank and the shells which he showed me. I also asked for a copy of the invoice he received from the replacement crank supplier which he also provided. I rang the company up to confirm what had been supplied and everything appeared to check out ok. Had a run around and no oil leaks as yet, yipeeeee. Hope that's the end of it now and feel a bit sorry for the guy as he's a hard worker who I believe had been caught out by his incompetent mechanic. If only he'd been straight with me from the start rather than the bullshit stories he and his son gave to fob me off, things may have been different. Hey ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.