andybp Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just a quickie with my ongoing car-ar-due-ino sub-project.. My passenger footwell.. Heat shrunk fixed connector connections ..and semi-plumbed in for test. I've left it here for now for test accessibility. I've roughly stuck the twin AFR meters to the carpet and thrown a big pillow over all the looms and gadgets for now, so I can drive around in it checking functionality. The mini-display has been roughly stuck with double sided tape to the sun visor to see how we get on. Already, fuel pressure and oil temp read spot on ..although analogue wide band AFRs (cross checked against narrow band analogue AFR simulations) seen a bit low compared to the digital displays, so there is an investigation. Probably just need to tweak some software coefficients a bit. The other oddment is that the MAP (boost/vac) sensor connection might be a bit funky - I've always been suspicious of the GM plug they use as it seems not to seat that well. IAT and coolant are only dangling in the engine bay currently, until I get the new port hardware sorted. Not a very good pic, but it's car wires - hey Part of the design is that the Arduino bit is detachable. It will sit in the grey box in Nissan's perfectly designed plug holder which has a slot made for Arduinos (not really - but serendipitous all the same). I connected everything via a 25way D (silver plug/socket) which is on a spur to the fixed/soldered D and installed looms. This means I can service the Arduino and vero-shield, including reprogramming, either in car or in a comfortable indoor room (e.g. couch). I must say (even though it is blowing my own trumpet - and it's at the expense of fighter cockpit appeal), I really like having a general status bar on the mini display going green when all numbers are in acceptable range - and it's easy to see any numbers that are causing a red - because they go red (or white or blue). The idea is multi-channel monitoring instead of trying to drive and read lots of separate gauges at once. Takes the guesswork out of 'is the car warmed up yet?' too. I promise that I'll install the looms and gadgets properly at a later date - not leave it all hanging out In other news, I attempted a bare metal respray of the wiper arms. I hate painting. Did I say I hate painting? all looking good Chris, I don't think the display idea is blowing your own trumpet well if it is it's deserved might even steal that idea myself as for the engine cover just paint it if it doesn't come out well buy the cf one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Cheers Andy Evening supercharger nerds - cos it's getting way nerdy in my thread now I've built logging into it now with a standalone serial connected 'ardulogger'. The main board, in addition to reading sensors, calculating conversion and outputting to the multicolour display, now formats the data into ascii-hex strings and writes out to an SD card via the independent logger. I'm developing a companion script (Perl/R) which both emulates the code on the main Arduino for test and development purposes, but also plots results of logs and generates CSV for review. I currently plot the raw values for debug, but there are other possibilities - the most interesting being converted boost vs fuel pressures. I've suspected something weird is happening in my fueling still at top end - and this is showing up nicely in graphs.. Ooo blinking err.. I've got a MAP sensor, so it's (delta values + atmospheric) in the reference line - which common to the BOV, fuel regulator control and MAP sensor. This may be just various lags in a dynamic system - but the relationship does look a bit weird. Early days yet though. We have nice rising pressure with MAP increase as expected, but there's also the fanning out which needs explaining. Sensors are spec'd as linear. Interestingly, also, my Aeromotive is one of the ones that doesn't hold pressure when the pump stops - so cranking is a couple of turns longer than I'd like. I wonder if it's being a bit rubbish Caveat absolute values might be a bit out (so shifted left or right, up or down) - but relative still stands OK.. here's today's commute into work this morning.. mostly cruising not blasting.. Interesting stuff.. Edit: either that or that pesky regulator plug O ring in the fuel bucket is giving me gyp again.. Edited April 16, 2015 by ChrisB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Chris you're so nerdy you almost make me look normal thanks for that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 We love it Loads of different graphs* automatically plotted now.. nerd-tactic - just need to add the extra IAT and coolant port hardware. I've reviewed, extended and tweaked some sensor coefficients too. Splendid. * ie.. afr bank 1 ~ afr bank 2 oil ~ coolant (including 64 pt rolling average) fuel ~ MAP iat ~ MAP MAP ~ av.afr everything ~ time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Nerd-tastic update (not sure if I'm really boring people now ) I think a fuel system 2.0 upgrade might be in order, as I've made an observation. It's probably not surprising that there are staged fuel system packages on the market. Sales blurb can be OTT at times, but I'm starting to think that there is something in it regarding fuel rails etc. My car runs fine - and if I hadn't designed and built all this logging - I'd probably be none the wiser.. however.. here's a couple of graphs of todays 40min commute in. In it there is a WOT.. Black is fuel pressure (psi), green is manifold air pressure (psi), magenta is average AFR. Note the black spike towards the end at ~2200 secs (scale is in ms). That corresponds with a WOT blast.. AFR over the whole trip between both banks (twin AFR sensors) shows reasonable balance - slightly richer in bank 2 (but I think that is deliberate tuning). Ignore upper right - thats AFR maxing out slightly out of sequence when coasting (fuel shut-off). I've coded my logger to go into high rate sampling if an interesting event occurs - in this case MAP > atmospheric, so I can get better resolution on exciting WOTs (about 40Hz) This detail zoomed in gives slightly worrying show of pressure drop. Of course, as the ID725 injectors open their taps, that will drain the fuel rails of petrol and lower its pressure - but, is this a case of the fuel system maxing out as pressure doesn't seem to be adequately replenished? It's down to 30psi at the end of the fuel rail chain by the end of the blast AFR is acceptable - but you can see it creeping up towards the end of the run - it hits about 12 - engine was over 5k RPM by then (I haven't got RPM sensing yet BTW). MAP is a good proxy for load though. Looking at this in another way, there is quite a fuel pressure avalanche in boost - like the system has been sucked dry Assuming the GSS342 Walbro pump is creating fuel delivery sufficiently down the stock fuel line (there is that funky carbon filter thing in the way in the OEM fuel bucket), and that the Aeromotive is pinching off return properly in boost, maybe parallel fed, fat fuel rails are the way forward like it says in the sales blurb after all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Nope , don't know what the f**k you're on about. Just kidding (sort of ) but it is getting very nerdy in here. Better fuel rails like the Cosworth ones will always be beneficial over the stock ones. It's definitely a consideration of mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb55 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Kinell i thought i had logged into the NASA forums for a minute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 DIY FI - got to attempt a bit of science occasionally I found a pdf which said JWT suggest you can bore the stock fuel rails out to remove the restriction at the inlet. I think new rails would be better though. More dosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chris, you have no idea what you're talking about, Litchfield said a Fuel Return System is not required! :scare: Good info, thanks a lot for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chris, you have no idea what you're talking about, Litchfield said a Fuel Return System is not required! :scare: Good info, thanks a lot for that! As in NO FRS Technically they are semi-correct - car works fine with stock rails and basic FRS - but it's starting to look a bit ugly. Worth spending a few more quid I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Kinell i thought i had logged into the NASA forums for a minute Genuine lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chris, you have no idea what you're talking about, Litchfield said a Fuel Return System is not required! :scare: Good info, thanks a lot for that! As in NO FRS Technically they are semi-correct - car works fine with stock rails and basic FRS - but it's starting to look a bit ugly. Worth spending a few more quid I think Is there a fuel return on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chris, you have no idea what you're talking about, Litchfield said a Fuel Return System is not required! :scare: Good info, thanks a lot for that! As in NO FRS Technically they are semi-correct - car works fine with stock rails and basic FRS - but it's starting to look a bit ugly. Worth spending a few more quid I think Is there a fuel return on this AAM basic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Chris, you have no idea what you're talking about, Litchfield said a Fuel Return System is not required! :scare: Good info, thanks a lot for that! As in NO FRS Technically they are semi-correct - car works fine with stock rails and basic FRS - but it's starting to look a bit ugly. Worth spending a few more quid I think Is there a fuel return on this AAM basic about the only thing basic with this build...the rest...the mind boggles! pretty interesting stuff though Edited April 20, 2015 by jumping350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 After a fair bit of reading, I'm pretty sure that this stock rail limitation is, well, normal My logging is showing both a kind of fluid hammer (high frequency spikes in the fuel curve.. [curve - ha! call that a curve?]) as well as showing the drop in pressure trend over a longer load period. In other tests, if I back off a touch or change gear before getting back on it, I have seen the pressure restoring and AFR sustaining 11's as the fuel system catches up. There is only 1 remaining damper in my system too - lack of damping would lead to the fluid hammer or jolts in pressure as injector duty cycle goes up.. CJ V3 rails return the damping by placing dampers in the middle of the rails. Flow issues are fixed by increasing volumetric capacities everywhere, and changing the rail supply configuration.. No brainer really - to smooth all this out, fuel system 2.0 is required. Only loss I suppose was the partial cost of an AAM basic - so that's eaten into the group buy savings of the S/C back then.. but still winning as some bits left over are reused by deselecting options on the CJ.. Normally people don't fit logging pressure gauges, so are none the wiser - their cars do what they do. Here, also, I can measure and chart the effect of upgrades Better, more consistent, fuel supply should mean less potential danger to the engine when it's in it's over stretched FI boosted (all be it occasional) operation. Soo... no brainer then, buy a new upgrade kit.. except.. will it be CJ stage 1 with V3 rails, or CJ stage 2 (with V3). The difference between S1 and S2 is only about $170 and includes a new wider bore tank to bay fuel hard pipe. That sounds like it could be a right PITA to fit on axle stands Hmmm.. ...shopping.... ....ADRIAN!!!.... I need some Torquen/CJ love!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Here! Charles is keen to start building your kit I also had the Stage 2 on my car, is up for sale now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Here! Charles is keen to start building your kit I also had the Stage 2 on my car, is up for sale now Good old Charles Stage 2 from your car.. vulture mode on.. ..really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Won't work, not even onto HR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Won't work, not even onto HR Eh? PMs and posts in parallel - slow down - I'm on an iPad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Won't work, not even onto HR Eh? PMs and posts in parallel - slow down - I'm on an iPad Just to clarify - Adrian's second hand S2 is for a 370 if anyone wants to buy it (thats what he was joking about with "it won't work" ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Minor update I used one of these to chomp the battery housing (I lined the cut edge with a bit of sticky heat shrink too). Now bump conduits fit nicely under the plastic. On the vague chance I've got a slight air leak in the MAP reference line, I wrapped the FPR nipple to make it fat - the pipe fits really well now Mike_89's Mishimoto hoses came through the post, so I vandalised the fat top hose to fit a coolant port.. Just need a couple of items through the post, then I can mod the intake for a second IAT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Good job with that hose and I do like "Ash" products. Bought a few parts from them on eBay for my car during the build up and the service was always very good, not to mention the prices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 great mod and a very neat looking engine bay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 For today's pictorial homage to sensory awareness, we have the auxiliary Intake Air Temperature Sensor.. Firstly, I bored a hole in the Vortech kit short bend intake pipe thingy using a step drill bit. Step drill bits are Christmas tree shaped bits which give good holes in sheet metal as each step bores it's own pilot hole - I put a felt washer of the correct size over it to stop it going past the step I wanted (12mm). After de-burring, I've used some of the "toughest bond in the USA" (J-B Weld) glue to fix an aluminium boss in place, instead of potentially ruining my pipe with aluminium welding. Should be good for the task - temperature range and adhesive strength are all within likely requirements All screwed in, the thermistor has plenty of exposure to the air flow.. Fitted.. without interference to existing bolts or brace 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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