Grundy Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Is a solicitor going to cost you more than £100? If the answer is yes, then don't contest. If the answer is no AND he feels you've a good case, then go for it. Are you having a larf ? They will charge you that for stepping into their office. Start involving the legal profession and it will run into thousands! Pretty sure that's what Dan's point was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Hmmmm........ just found out there are no points for not wearing a seat belt and the fixed £100 fine can rise to £500 if it goes to Court. http://www.saferroad...ckets/seatbelt/ In which case it would seem that without clear evidence to contrary swallowing the fine is the better option.......but makes you think eh, what an easy way of making money out of motorists knowing they are unlikely to take issue with the ticket Or you could do this: http://www.motorlawy...hone_advice.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJRFulton Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Hmmmm........ just found out there are no points for not wearing a seat belt and the fixed £100 fine can rise to £500 if it goes to Court. http://www.saferroad...ckets/seatbelt/ In which case it would seem that without clear evidence to contrary swallowing the fine is the better option.......but makes you think eh, what an easy way of making money out of motorists knowing they are unlikely to take issue with the ticket Or you could do this: http://www.motorlawy...hone_advice.php To me it is wrong. How can you be fined with no credible evidence? No picture or anything. Hardly anyone will be able to prove they were wearing a belt as few have dash cams, or will be able to source CCTV. If a policeman is mistaken, and/or feeling vindictive.... it's easily open for abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 There is credible evidence, the opinion of two officers is enough for that. It is assumed that they are not infallible, and that's often where the system falls down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJRFulton Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 The other thing is the seat belt is black, my interior is black, I was wearing a black shirt (had been at a funeral and travelling back from Scotland to work) and my windows have a tint.... Even if they seen me from the front without me noticing them, how can they credibly say I wasn't wearing a belt? From the back, I think the image below proves you can't see from the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Im with Coldel on this, while you probably have a reasonable case its not worth the time and money to take it to court - Id definitely write to PCC and the Commissioner though, pointing out that you were 1.5 hours into a journey and theres no way they could tell if you were wearing a belt from behind a 370. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alroma Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As unfair as this situation undoubtedly is, I think I'd just take it on the chin. Especially since you got away with the "speed trap" incident last month (it wasn't the same coppers this time was it?). Pick your battles, and all that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Credible? Having followed the OP for 5/6 miles and no doubt done the insurance/reg/stolenchecks and couldn't fault the speed/driving behaviour/phone use, they had no doubt made up their minds to to pull the OP over to find something amiss only to find nothing and my guess is that they went for what they use as a fall-back option to justify the pull. Cynical maybe, but if it was really a pull for the seatbelt not being used, why 5/6 miles to act?????? For me this has highlighted a nice little earner, no doubt due the fact those accused have little in the way of proving the accusation false. I will be interested to see if some of our Police members on have any comments as there is a real perception that a loophole is being used to increase revenue at innocent drivers' expense Certainly has made me think again about an in-car camera, if this is what we are now faced with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 And there was me coming into this thread hoping people were getting fines for this: Sorry to read your plight OP, I'd agree with the masses though, I know £100 is a lot of money to essentially throw away, but in the interest of it not turning out to be more, I'd just pay and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Never, never, ever, involve yourself in legal proceedings solely because you feel you have been wronged. You should only challenge the penalty if you receive independent professional advice that you have a strong case. As I have said already, and as others have said, if it comes down to your word against the word of two police officers, the magistrates will believe the officers. Look at this way, the courts are full of people protesting their innocence, but in the great majority of cases they're not innocent so why would the magistrates believe you? You know you're honest and that you've been shafted but the question is - could you convince them in the face of two officers who will swear that they saw you put your belt on at the last minute. The cost, hassle and stress of going to court will only make things worse if you don't get the outcome you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? It's possible to get above 70 on the M25? I barely get above 50 on a good day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? because the yellow ones are safety cameras although do the same job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? That law was repealed a couple of years back, hence why gantry cameras are legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It was never a law that cameras had to be yellow, it was down to the individual local authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 if it comes down to your word against the word of two police officers, the magistrates will believe the officers. "Plebgate" being a good example. Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisRatcliffe Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? It's possible to get above 70 on the M25? I barely get above 50 on a good day! Can be done just ask this guy http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27587130 Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a side note, noticed a fair number of speed cameras up and operating on the M25 now, all grey coloured and some hiding behind trees growing by the side of the road. I thought it was made law that speed cameras are a deterrent not a revenue channel and if they are hidden or not clearly visible they are not a deterrent. So how comes these are exempt? It's possible to get above 70 on the M25? I barely get above 50 on a good day! Can be done just ask this guy http://m.bbc.co.uk/n...ngland-27587130 Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Blimey. The section nearest to me - you squeeze on and sit in a slow moving line of traffic for half an hour - if you get past third gear and above 50mph you feel like you're doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianphampton Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 its a crock mate, same thing happend to me a few years back, I had 4 officers though (I was in a civic back then, i think they didnt like that more than 100% had my belt on ...then i said well prove i didnt have my belt on and he said 'prove you did' to which i replied I dont drive around taking pictures of myself wearing my seatbelt so how do I prove that? to which I got ' then your getting a seat belt fine then, and ive got 3 other officers to back me up' Really lost faith in the police that day ...more and more i think everyone on here should get one of those in car cameras put in....or three one facing you one facing out front window and one facing out rear window, as soon as they pop head in and see all the cameras they might think twice then I got stopped last year for 'speeding' but they didn't have a speed gun, just their own speedo (It was just the little local car, not traffic) and I refuted it so robustly they sort-of took it back, but they then spent about 40 minutes desperately DEPERATELY trying to find something on the car to do me for, and in the end I got a £60 fine for illegal spacing on my number plate. As jumping350 says, "Really lost faith in the police that day" as they just couldn't bring themselves to just let me go, saying that they'd heard me accelerating so knew I was driving too fast (even though I demonstrated the stainless exhaust and the sound it makes. ) When 2 coppers in a car back each other up, there's no way you can stop them, and they'll lie and do whatever it takes to fit you up rather than say "OK, sorry, Sir, off you go". Once upon a time I had huge sympathy for our police, difficult job with scant Thanks etc etc but when they abuse their power or forget that they're supposed to be fair and impartial . . . .I have to admit that now I have lost most of my respect for the Police, and suspect that their default position is to lie rather than admit any error or fault of their own. Ok, rant over. However, I suspect that the OP has absolutely zero chance of correctly refuting their claim, and has little choice but to take the penalty and rue the day when police in this country no longer uphold justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Im with Coldel on this, while you probably have a reasonable case its not worth the time and money to take it to court - Id definitely write to PCC and the Commissioner though, pointing out that you were 1.5 hours into a journey and theres no way they could tell if you were wearing a belt from behind a 370. +1. Really boils my blood this sort of cr*p going on but what can you do really that isn't going to cost you a lot more than the initial fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh350z Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 To be honest there is no way in hell I could live with taking this on the chin, I just ain't built that way. I would rather fight and lose big than let myself get walked over for less of a loss. Recording the sound and showing multiple images of the rear of your car seems to be a great defense. Any magistrate with half a brain could see that there is no way the policemen could tell whether or not you were wearing a seat belt. Police cars are fitted with camera's for collecting evidence... I would want to see their footage for proof as well. Innocent until PROVEN guilty and all that. No proof, no crime. Their word against yours means nothing when you're showing physical proof that what they could see would be 100% inconclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Is there no win no fee companies that will look at this? I would have thought they need "evidence" (photo etc) not just their word. If a police officer can randomly say someone was doing something when they werent the country would be in a world of trouble. Personally i would have a good read around, pistonheads as a good example, and see if anyone else has challenged such cases. Long story short, i got stopped on my motorbike a few years back after attending a popular bike meet on the way home a few miles down the road from it, i had just literally almost been knocked off my bike by a speeding car over a crest of a hill (copper waiting at the bottom), they watched the car go past and then pulled us all in, we werent speeding as a mate was running in his bike. They were out that night to stop bikers and check for small plates, illegal exhausts etc and fully admitted it even when asked if they had seen what almost happened, there response was, we are not interested in cars tonight! It was actually quite amusing in the end, a full blown shouting and swearing match with a copper who insisted he could give me points for a small plate, i begged for the points, he ended up giving me a correction notice, strange that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbster Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The best solution is to complain like mad, by phone and email, explaining what happened just as you have here. If they've done it once, they may have done it before - and you will be helping to build a picture of their dishonesty. So, even if it costs you £100, you will have the comfort of knowing that you may be helping to stop these bent bastards from robbing other innocent members of the public. As you can see, I believe your story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I would have thought they need "evidence" (photo etc) not just their word. If a police officer can randomly say someone was doing something when they werent the country would be in a world of trouble. That's exactly right, and it's been the case for years. You can be done for speeding if one police officer forms an opinion of you being over the limit. Corroborating evidence isn't actually required for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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