AJRFulton Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I got pulled over tonight by traffic cops on the A69. I was fined for not wearing a seat belt. The cops had a good look around my car, found nothing wrong with it... then fined me for not wearing a belt. A point argued until I was blue in the face, as I definitely, 100%, without doubt, was wearing a seatbelt for the duration of my 170ml journey (who could tolerate the beep, beep, beep for 2.5hrs?) The cop was pretty rude to me, but that's a side issue... the point is I was wearing a belt. Upon being stopped I leaned over to the passengers seat to grab my wallet (containing my photo licence). I didn't accept anything, but had no choice but to take the FPN slip they gave me on advice from them I could appeal it. The police said they seen me put my belt on after they pulled me... again argued until blue in the face. Having looked at the Z from behind, I find it impossible that a following police car could see through the Z's rear window and see the seatbelt mounts. Indeed standing at head height, with my friend in the car from 10m behind I couldn't tell of he had a belt on or off, as you can only really seen the left shoulder and head. I always wear my belt and in the tiny chance I forgot, the car beeps constantly.... It's not as if I was travelling 500m down the road and chose to ignore it for the 20 secs the journey took - I was having a 170 mile drive, and was pulled about 2.5hrs into it! Has anyone appealed this before? what success did you have? This was traffic cops that issued the fine, does that have any effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Wow that's bad luck mate, sounds like they were board with feck all to do, and trying to up the statistics I would be contesting that one by using photo evidence that you can not determine that you were not wearing a seatbelt from the back of a 370 if that is the reason they state they pulled you over. I hope you get it resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Problem might be its two of them against one of you. Good luck anyway mate , would make me frustrated as hell!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 That's rubbish luck but I agree with Aiden. If it's just your word against the two of them, the court hasn't really got a reason to uphold an appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) its a crock mate, same thing happend to me a few years back, I had 4 officers though (I was in a civic back then, i think they didnt like that more than 100% had my belt on ...then i said well prove i didnt have my belt on and he said 'prove you did' to which i replied I dont drive around taking pictures of myself wearing my seatbelt so how do I prove that? to which I got ' then your getting a seat belt fine then, and ive got 3 other officers to back me up' Really lost faith in the police that day ...more and more i think everyone on here should get one of those in car cameras put in....or three one facing you one facing out front window and one facing out rear window, as soon as they pop head in and see all the cameras they might think twice then Edited June 5, 2014 by jumping350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Really sorry to hear this, but sadly, this sounds like one of those occasions when you just need to take your medicine. I know you were not in the wrong, but there is little chance you could persuade a judge over the word of 2 police... as they'll ensure their stories are identical. You'd probably end up paying the fine and costs as you have no other evidence to back up your story. At least you don't get penalty points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 To be fair to them, that could genuinely have looked like you put the belt on after you saw them, and they're used to people giving feeble excuses. Not that yours was, but you know what I mean. Sadly, some you win and some you lose in life. This time they were wrong, but there's precious little you can do about it. I wouldn't even bother trying to argue in court, not for the sake of £100. You have my sympathies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Curious. You said they pulled you over and had a good look round your car.........before mentioning the seat belt issue? There was no other suggestion of infringement(s) being the reason for stopping you before the seat belt issue was raised? Not, first stating "we have stopped you because you were not wearing a seat belt" and then had a look round the car? And did you stay in the car until the officer approached, or get out before he got to you? And did they at any point see you from the front or the side before pulling you over? And it was nightime? Have you been done for that before or any other car/driving infringement, or an otherwise clean licence? (Maybe you may not wish to reveal that here) Any chance you might have passed a cctv that might verify your wearing the belt, just before the pull? Because as others have said, It would extremely difficult to see through the rear of the car that you were not wearing a seatbelt and putting it on, (or taking it off) immediately upon being stopped. Think this would be the scenario I would raise with a good Brief if you were so minded, as it rather sounds as though they were looking for a 'tug' and that was their fallback option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJRFulton Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) The A69 is pretty rural going between Carlisle and Newcastle, so no CCTV. They shadowed me for 5-6mls maybe, then pulled me over at around 9ish, so still daylight. One came to the window and asked me the usual, where are you from/going/etc, who are you, blah, blah as the other had a prowl around the car. Then after confirming my details took me to their car and hit me with the seatbelt fine. I don't recall them giving a specific reason for pulling me, until issuing the seatbelt fine. The cop was pretty rude and condescending. Nothing said out of order, more the tone. Pretty needless as I wasn't being irate with him until the seatbelt thing, then admittedly I did get a bit flustered, but then who wouldn't if they were getting fined for something they didn't do. My licence is clean, had 3pts 7-8yrs back for a bad tyre (gash on inner wall). Edited June 5, 2014 by AJRFulton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 it's your word against theirs, not much proof in that. not that it's a great help, you know who'll the magistrates will believe. What a bugger. What you said makes complete sense. I couldn't tolerate the beep for that long. it'd drive me round the bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sorry to heat that mate. They were just out for a pull. Totally agree with Colin. I had something similar around Christmas cop on a motor bike followed me into Tesco car park "banged" on the window and said "you just drove into here without a seat belt on"..even though I had it on when he was banging on the window..I took it off got out of the car and pointed to the CCTV camera at the entrance to Tesco and asked him to check the CCTV Camera and he would see I had it on. He told me I was lucky this time and drove off..!!! It seems the easiest nick in the world "no seatbelt" most people just pay and they get another tick in their box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) If the cop was rude at least complain about that, at the end of the day there a public servant not a public dictator, i would contest the fine what do you have to lose? Edited June 5, 2014 by StevoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 it's your word against theirs, not much proof in that. not that it's a great help, you know who'll the magistrates will believe. What a bugger. What you said makes complete sense. I couldn't tolerate the beep for that long. it'd drive me round the bend. If a Brief feels you have a strong case, it is likely he would opt for it not be heard in a Magistartes Court. Not sure if the Scottish legal system is the same though. Edit: Just realised you were not in your home area in Scotland so have deleted that last comment of mine. Apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Glad I have my camera. It'd also record that damn beeping if I wasn't wearing a seatbelt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Is a solicitor going to cost you more than £100? If the answer is yes, then don't contest. If the answer is no AND he feels you've a good case, then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Glad I have my camera. It'd also record that damn beeping if I wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Probably worth turning on your smartphone recorder when you get a pull, at least you will have something on record even if its only sound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Just go 'write' to the top mate - pay your fine but make your point, don't write to the police complaints commission simply write to the head commissioner of your local force. Include a link to this thread, and see what happens. As someone above pointed out, police are public servants paid for by the public purse, they are not there to pick on the public to up statistics. You wont get anything back but I always find I feel better for it and its off my chest! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Glad I have my camera. It'd also record that damn beeping if I wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Probably worth turning on your smartphone recorder when you get a pull, at least you will have something on record even if its only sound. Camera records video footage out of the front windscreen but sound from the unit's mic, so it'd record what I'd need to to prove my case if I ever got pulled over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Go to court, appeal it, i reckon you have a great chance of winning. state about the alarm that sounds with no belt, state you was on a long journey, and all the above being night time etc.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Chris Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Depend if you feel you can 'let it go' or not. It's probably healthier for your blood pressure to take it on the chin but if you really can't I'd say the bleeping was a good defence. Record it (and record it LOUD) so you can play it back in court. Where exactly did they tail and stop you? That's more for my knowledge as I drive the length of that road all the time. I know where they hide on the dual carriageway to stop speeders which is fair enough, also where they hide on the military road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The bell alarm for not belt is not a great defence to rely on, as it can be easily beaten by simply plugging the belt in then sitting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 You are right Dan, but then if had done that these very observant coppers would have either spotted that in the car or the OP undoing it so as not to be caught trying that on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I don't doubt for one second the OP is telling the truth here, but there's no way he's going to win in court, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJRFulton Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Depend if you feel you can 'let it go' or not. It's probably healthier for your blood pressure to take it on the chin but if you really can't I'd say the bleeping was a good defence. Record it (and record it LOUD) so you can play it back in court. Where exactly did they tail and stop you? That's more for my knowledge as I drive the length of that road all the time. I know where they hide on the dual carriageway to stop speeders which is fair enough, also where they hide on the military road. Eastbound, not too far away from the little chef. Kinda hard to state exactly where as it was a rural lay by. They were behind me a while, including an overtaking lane (or two). My thinking is... is it worth it for £100. I suspect it's futile resisting it. Edited June 5, 2014 by AJRFulton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350zedd Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Is a solicitor going to cost you more than £100? If the answer is yes, then don't contest. If the answer is no AND he feels you've a good case, then go for it. Are you having a larf ? They will charge you that for stepping into their office. Start involving the legal profession and it will run into thousands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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