Sobering reminder about trackday safety

[brillomaster]

Me and a friend from work went on a track last Monday up at Bedford Autodrome... all going well until about 11am, when the track was red flagged because of this (30 seconds in)

 

 

Sobering reminder that even at a 'safe' track, accidents can and do happen to anyone, and a car can end up on its roof. Also lucky that the Nova driver hadn't gone 3 seconds earlier.

 

I won't get into the specifics of how the slide started, or if it could have been corrected, as a lot of trackday drivers are relative novices and its easy to overcook it through a corner (and this is in the dry). Also 90% of the time this sort of slide would have ended on the grass without incident, but in this case the speed and angle of the car meant it made it all the way to the gravel track and rolled.

 

All i can say is that if you are thinking of taking a car out on track, be aware that it can all end very badly. If you aren't prepared to take that risk, don't go on track. If you cant afford to replace your car, get trackday insurance.

 

Both driver and passenger walked away from this accident, but their car was looking somewhat worse for wear - B pillar had stayed intact, but windscreen and roof ahead of b pillar had been flattened.

[Ekona]

Not the first person to lose it there, guy on here did the same thing last year. Same with every track, worst place to have an incident is on the pit straight because there is always a wall there.

 

Ironically if he'd not steered into the slide to correct, it probably would would've spun on the spot and not touched the grass at all. This is why I run a £2k shed as a track car, just in case. Was he insured do you know?

 

 

Remember kids, if you're going to touch the grass always do it in a straight line, never at an angle.

[GMballistic]

The angle of that slide it was never coming back imo no matter who was driving and it was just unlucky that there was enough momentum to carry it all the way to the gravel trap which ultimately caused it to roll over.

 

Glad they weren't injured in that crash.

[WhackyWill]

Not the first person to lose it there, guy on here did the same thing last year. Same with every track, worst place to have an incident is on the pit straight because there is always a wall there.

 

Ironically if he'd not steered into the slide to correct, it probably would would've spun on the spot and not touched the grass at all. This is why I run a £2k shed as a track car, just in case. Was he insured do you know?

 

 

Remember kids, if you're going to touch the grass always do it in a straight line, never at an angle.

 

and come off the power and don't touch the brakes..!!

 

Think he just ran out of talent..!!

Edited May 24, 2014 by WhackyWill

[brillomaster]

definitely a tricky corner - in a lot of cars it can be taken at full throttle, but theres a bit of tarmac change on the apex and its a bit off camber on the exit, on a wet day saw loads of people go off there (including Will). Driver definitely got unlucky, slightly different speed or angle and it probably wouldnt have rolled.

 

Not sure about insurance - but agree with Dan, our beemer is a £400 snotter for a reason! much as i'd love to take my zed on track, i wouldnt do it without insurance.

[Linus27]

This is the view from from friends DC2 last year at the same corner. He took a slightly different line than normal and it spat him out. I was going to go out with him in this session but decided to go out in my own car thankfully.

 

 

 

 

[GMballistic]

definitely a tricky corner - in a lot of cars it can be taken at full throttle, but theres a bit of tarmac change on the apex and its a bit off camber on the exit, on a wet day saw loads of people go off there (including Will). Driver definitely got unlucky, slightly different speed or angle and it probably wouldnt have rolled.

 

Not sure about insurance - but agree with Dan, our beemer is a £400 snotter for a reason! much as i'd love to take my zed on track, i wouldnt do it without insurance.

That's part of the problem with track days some of the time imo. I remember being on Castle Combe once back when I was tracking a Corsa Sport I owned and used as my daily driver. There was this guy in an 80's Audi that barely looked like it could pass it's MOT.

 

This guy was driving around the circuit like an absolute be**end most likely because he didn't care about his car. His track etiquette was terrible and he tried out breaking me into a few corners before eventually he lost it at the Esses and went side ways across the grass almost T-boning another car as he tried to regain control.

 

So often I see people (not saying you or Ekona) that turn up at circuits in their cheap track day sheds thinking they are race drivers who then proceed to drive that car as hard as they can often resulting in them running out of talent and losing control. Sometimes they get lucky and it's just a spin but other times it results in damage to their cars or themselves and occasionally innocent parties.

[Linus27]

As for risking your own car, this has crossed my mind and I really didn't like the idea of taking my £5k Civic Type R on track. The issue I had was,

 

a. I couldn't afford to replace it if something did go wrong and it got smashed up.

b. Because I was conscious of the value of the car, I couldn't fully relax and enjoy the day.

c. It was also my daily and I would had an issue getting to work if it got damaged.

 

So instead I bought a MK1 MX5 Eunos for £600 which I must say is a blast. I will get an Civic Type R again in a year or twos time but I have set a budget of £2k.

 

For me the risk of damaging my daily was too great.

[Linus27]

definitely a tricky corner - in a lot of cars it can be taken at full throttle, but theres a bit of tarmac change on the apex and its a bit off camber on the exit, on a wet day saw loads of people go off there (including Will). Driver definitely got unlucky, slightly different speed or angle and it probably wouldnt have rolled.

 

Not sure about insurance - but agree with Dan, our beemer is a £400 snotter for a reason! much as i'd love to take my zed on track, i wouldnt do it without insurance.

That's part of the problem with track days some of the time imo. I remember being on Castle Combe once back when I was tracking a Corsa Sport I owned and used as my daily driver. There was this guy in an 80's Audi that barely looked like it could pass it's MOT.

 

This guy was driving around the circuit like an absolute be**end most likely because he didn't care about his car. His track etiquette was terrible and he tried out breaking me into a few corners before eventually he lost it at the Esses and went side ways across the grass almost T-boning another car as he tried to regain control.

 

So often I see people (not saying you or Ekona) that turn up at circuits in their cheap track day sheds thinking they are race drivers who then proceed to drive that car as hard as they can often resulting in them running out of talent and losing control. Sometimes they get lucky and it's just a spin but other times it results in damage to their cars or themselves and occasionally innocent parties.

 

Yes this is a good point and I have heard similar horror stories. I like sticking to a club and have only ever been part of Lotus and Hondas on track with MG and Mazdas on track also attending. Like minded drivers who respect your cars and others. The only other organiser I think I would consider is MSV as they seem to be very well organised.

[brillomaster]

hmmm its a tricky one... i know what you mean re. cheap track cars... although even though ours is cheap its by no means disposable... we need it to drive home again, and its still £250 i have invested in the car! i suspect the bigger problem is the driver... i've seen full race cars trying to out brake other drivers on track, and i would never take my car on a track session at japfest for example... far too many drivers who've never actually done any track driving, with only 20 minutes to prove their worth to their mates.

[GMballistic]

hmmm its a tricky one... i know what you mean re. cheap track cars... although even though ours is cheap its by no means disposable... we need it to drive home again, and its still £250 i have invested in the car! i suspect the bigger problem is the driver... i've seen full race cars trying to out brake other drivers on track, and i would never take my car on a track session at japfest for example... far too many drivers who've never actually done any track driving, with only 20 minutes to prove their worth to their mates.

See Japfest is a good example ~ the problem with it as I see it is that there is a large audience of people there who are watching the drivers. This seems to make some people act like complete tools especially those that like to think of themselves as being in a race as appose to being on a track day.

 

I'd never go on track at Japfest unless it was part of some Zed only laps with members of this forum who I know and trust to respect each others space & driving lines not to mention cars.

[Linus27]

hmmm its a tricky one... i know what you mean re. cheap track cars... although even though ours is cheap its by no means disposable... we need it to drive home again, and its still £250 i have invested in the car! i suspect the bigger problem is the driver... i've seen full race cars trying to out brake other drivers on track, and i would never take my car on a track session at japfest for example... far too many drivers who've never actually done any track driving, with only 20 minutes to prove their worth to their mates.

See Japfest is a good example ~ the problem with it as I see it is that there is a large audience of people there who are watching the drivers. This seems to make some people act like complete tools especially those that like to think of themselves as being in a race as appose to being on a track day.

 

I'd never go on track at Japfest unless it was part of some Zed only laps with members of this forum who I know and trust to respect each others space & driving lines not to mention cars.

 

Yep, this is the same for me.

[Ekona]

I trust my own driving 100%. It's the driving of others I don't trust.

[Suits]

I bought my 370Z specifically for this sort of days fun.

 

I know the bend and it does egg you on to go flat out, if you get the apex right on the way in it really is a quick part of the circuit (maybe the quickest) but if you get it wrong it can be a bit of an eye opener and a bit of a lifter, lol.

 

I just try and drive within myself at all times and try to improve slowly over time, not push the progress, I'm not a race driver.

 

I have to admit, it does go through my mind often about binning it on a track day but to be honest, that sort of adrenaline is kind of all part of the package for me.

 

 

 

**Until I bin it at Brands next month

[Ekona]

Do you bother with insurance?

[Suits]

Do you bother with insurance?

 

As of yet, no.

 

It's something I've considered a number of times. More so now that I have the Nissan.

 

I tend to base my decision on the circuit and who it's with, so far with the same outcome every time.

 

 

[Ekona]

Fair dos.

 

I didn't bother when I ran the MR2 (first one), only bothered with the VXR because it came free with my road insurance, ditto with the Zed as it transferred over, and then only did one day with the 911 before I swapped insurer.

 

 

After seeing some pretty horrendous incidents, and realising I might have been pushing my luck a bit, I now only drive cars I can afford to bin, or I'd only do a day if I had insurance. It's very easy to do £20K+ worth of damage to a Porker...! It only takes one idiot, or one slight mechanical failure, or one dodgy turn, and you could kill a Zed easy. Fair play if you've got the balls/cash to track it without, sadly these days I have neither.

[Suits]

My 370Z is a luxury, my toy, a rather expensive one, I'm aware of that.

 

I also have a Fiesta and I work in the city, which I use the stinking train for.

 

If I lose my Nissan, it's a big loss, one I'd not be able to afford to replace but it wouldn't have too much of an impact on my day to day life.

 

I think, because of this and not needing to rely on my Nissan, I find it easier to make these decisions and calculated risks.

 

I'm not trying to defend anything, just trying to validate my decisions a bit more over the obvious risks you correctly point out.

 

Who knows, it may well play on my mind a bit more now .

[Stutopia]

I had such an exciting blend of fun and sheer terror on my two track days in the Zed. I couldn't quite shake the feeling that a small fail or a split second poor decision could see her written off. Each to their own but both days I went insured, otherwise it would have beed just terror and no fun at all . For a £100 with no excess it wasn't even a decision. If I went down the casino and they offered me the chance to bet £6k to win £100 I wouldn't even entertain those odds, certainly not as my Zed means more to me than the amount it would cost to replace. Even with the insurance I never felt fully relaxed and certainly not as brave as when I strap a kart to my @ss. Consequently, the Zed won't see any more track, to relax and learn I want something where I'll be going slower if it all goes wrong and that I could chalk up to experience if it ended up being recovered off to a scrappy.

Edited May 29, 2014 by SuperStu

[Ekona]

I don't drive a car any differently regardless of whether it's my own, someone else's, a POS or worth a fortune when I'm on track.

 

I have no idea if that's a good thing or not, tbh.

[brillomaster]

i think i drive the two completely differently - track car gets revved to the redline every gear change, brakes at 100% almost all the time, tyres are squealing, etc etc.

 

I dont think i could ever drive my zed in the same way, just because i dont want to put that mush stress on the engine, gearbox, brakes, tyres, and so on. its not nice to a car to drive it as quickly as possible - but its so liberating to have a car you dont mind pushing that bit harder knowing your pride and joy is staying safely at home. That said, even though i drive our bmw hard i always try and drive smoothly... smooth application of throttle and brakes, controlled steering inputs and accurate gearchanges and heel and toe downshifts.

[Linus27]

I find track driving a totally different mentality to other driving. For me it's not just about going as fast as you can, it more about perfecting the skills to make you a better driver which in turn will make you quicker. Focusing on balancing the car, coming off the throttle smoothly, applying the brakes correctly, coming off the brakes smoothly and balancing the throttle and steering inputs as you unwind exiting the corner, focusing on the correct line and trying new lines.

 

I also love understanding how your car behaves on track and learning the way it handles. My old Civic Type R at Castle Combe, I had to always turn in much earlier than normal to make the apex as it didn't like the ideal line. Caught me out a few times but set a whole new challenge to focus on. However, when the rain came, my god did the car come alive and it was like a totally different machine. Even the Lotus instructor who was coaching me couldn't believe how much it changed.

 

For day to day driving, you do very little working on this precise type of driving as it's more routine and regulated. Yes you get the chance to have some nice blats on various B roads but you never turn around and try the corner again and again to perfect it. I love the technical aspect of circuit driving more than the speed.

[Stutopia]

I find track driving a totally different mentality to other driving. For me it's not just about going as fast as you can, it more about perfecting the skills to make you a better driver which in turn will make you quicker. Focusing on balancing the car, coming off the throttle smoothly, applying the brakes correctly, coming off the brakes smoothly and balancing the throttle and steering inputs as you unwind exiting the corner, focusing on the correct line and trying new lines.

 

I also love understanding how your car behaves on track and learning the way it handles. My old Civic Type R at Castle Combe, I had to always turn in much earlier than normal to make the apex as it didn't like the ideal line. Caught me out a few times but set a whole new challenge to focus on. However, when the rain came, my god did the car come alive and it was like a totally different machine. Even the Lotus instructor who was coaching me couldn't believe how much it changed.

 

For day to day driving, you do very little working on this precise type of driving as it's more routine and regulated. Yes you get the chance to have some nice blats on various B roads but you never turn around and try the corner again and again to perfect it. I love the technical aspect of circuit driving more than the speed.

 

You've captured the challenge of it very well with those words I ike this aspect a lot in a short kart circuit, where you get many, many goes at each bend, and then you just find it and a quarter second drops off your lap time, then you go looking for other snips of time that are hiding out there.