Education is the key................. or is it?

[StevoD]

Brilliant vid that. Sounds so simple doesn't it. The problem is that the entire way of life we have is constructed to keep people working within its rules and boundaries. Money and the need to have it in order to live is the problem. All getting a bit philosophical now lol

 

haha yes but before i go all erm saddening on you that video kinda sank in with me 18-24 months when i was in quite a dark area having had my girlfirend shagging my mate behind my back and most people found out when i did as she left me straight for him in public and loosing a job, but i just sat there one day and must have watched that video and a few other alan watts pieces over and over again a bit brain washing i then just did start doing stuff i like and wanted one of the biggest reason i now have the Z and didn't care what people thought or said yea ok im not a formula drift driver making a living sliding, but i have actually made a start with the dream as some may see if you have no wish or get up and go it will never happen, never know till you ask

Edited May 16, 2014 by StevoD

[Marcus01]

I also did Of Mice and Men at school haha. Only book I read, but I got my English GCSEs and enjoyed it actually. I have to say having lived abroad, it is embarrassing the lack of education we have here into things such as History ( I know someone said it was dross), we like to think we are a proud nation of Brits but most people know naff all about our own past, how we got to our current state of affairs and why our culture contains what it does. I volunteered some free time a while back to helping out in a local school, kids loved History actually - it was the usual Mathematics subjects they hated (which are ironically probably the most important, but I am biased!)

History is what happened till yesterday and can't be changed, tomorrow is the future and any decisions I make can either help or hinder me and my family's fortunes.

Maths and English are the important subjects, if you can't communicate and calculate your boundary's are restricted.

Success cannot be measured in money volumes, it is measured in lifestyle and personal happiness.

[rtbiscuit]

The amount of people who get a degree and think they can walk into a 60k a year job are deluded. Even with a degree, everyone starts at the bottom. A degree is just a key to a door.

 

It allows you to network. And sadly with many things in life people soon learn that its not always what you know, but who you know. And in some accessions the uni you went to can be that connection.

so true that! Only a few degrees instantly give people access to reasonable wages, I'm thinking teachers, Dr's, lawyers. But then all of them also have to do years of further and continuous training to earn those 60k plus figures.

 

I started my teacher training by doing the GTP (teacher version of an apprenticeships) so I have no PGCE, but I do have QTS. My initial salary was just about 14k before tax. Once qualified it only jumped to 20k. And its been a slow hard slog up the ladder. I'm now in a management position after 8 years of teaching, and I probably earn 10-20k less a year than all my mates from uni who didn't go into teaching. But I love what I do, I'm home in time to see my kids before bed. I'm around at the weekends, I have time off when my kids eventually will. I still do loads of hours un paid, but I do it because I like what I do and I like to see my students succeed. And I'd like to think long after I die, my students will be teaching their own kids the skills I taught them and I shall live on long after I've shuffled off this mortal coil. Never going to be a millionaire, but I've come to terms with that, and I'm content.

[Chesterfield]

Defending, or even promoting, the leaving of the educational system by using the extremely rare examples of Jobs, Branson and Gates is reprehensibly irresponsible. If all of those 5 million people who have watched that video had taken it to heart, we would probably have 4.99 million more people now competing in the low paid low skill jobs market.

 

Its nothing more than very eloquent professionally edited "screw the system" tripe.

[coldel]

I also did Of Mice and Men at school haha. Only book I read, but I got my English GCSEs and enjoyed it actually. I have to say having lived abroad, it is embarrassing the lack of education we have here into things such as History ( I know someone said it was dross), we like to think we are a proud nation of Brits but most people know naff all about our own past, how we got to our current state of affairs and why our culture contains what it does. I volunteered some free time a while back to helping out in a local school, kids loved History actually - it was the usual Mathematics subjects they hated (which are ironically probably the most important, but I am biased!)

History is what happened till yesterday and can't be changed, tomorrow is the future and any decisions I make can either help or hinder me and my family's fortunes.

Maths and English are the important subjects, if you can't communicate and calculate your boundary's are restricted.

Success cannot be measured in money volumes, it is measured in lifestyle and personal happiness.

 

Personally I find history fascinating as it very much about discovering what people did in the past that worked, or didn't, and can influence what I do in future to avoid similar pitfalls or seize similar opportunities. But, as Rich said, you should study across the board to give you the opportunity to decide what is and isn't important to you.

[sipar69]

The amount of people who get a degree and think they can walk into a 60k a year job are deluded. Even with a degree, everyone starts at the bottom. A degree is just a key to a door.

 

It allows you to network. And sadly with many things in life people soon learn that its not always what you know, but who you know. And in some accessions the uni you went to can be that connection.

so true that! Only a few degrees instantly give people access to reasonable wages, I'm thinking teachers, Dr's, lawyers. But then all of them also have to do years of further and continuous training to earn those 60k plus figures.

 

I started my teacher training by doing the GTP (teacher version of an apprenticeships) so I have no PGCE, but I do have QTS. My initial salary was just about 14k before tax. Once qualified it only jumped to 20k. And its been a slow hard slog up the ladder. I'm now in a management position after 8 years of teaching, and I probably earn 10-20k less a year than all my mates from uni who didn't go into teaching. But I love what I do, I'm home in time to see my kids before bed. I'm around at the weekends, I have time off when my kids eventually will. I still do loads of hours un paid, but I do it because I like what I do and I like to see my students succeed. And I'd like to think long after I die, my students will be teaching their own kids the skills I taught them and I shall live on long after I've shuffled off this mortal coil. Never going to be a millionaire, but I've come to terms with that, and I'm content.

 

I agree. It's a cliche but true that money doesn't buy happiness. Just look at all the dysfunctional, alcoholic, depressed, suicidal but wealthy celebrities. There's a Pulp song - can't remember which one - with a line about winning the lottery - 'check your lucky numbers, that much money could drag you under....'

[coldel]

The amount of people who get a degree and think they can walk into a 60k a year job are deluded. Even with a degree, everyone starts at the bottom. A degree is just a key to a door.

 

It allows you to network. And sadly with many things in life people soon learn that its not always what you know, but who you know. And in some accessions the uni you went to can be that connection.

so true that! Only a few degrees instantly give people access to reasonable wages, I'm thinking teachers, Dr's, lawyers. But then all of them also have to do years of further and continuous training to earn those 60k plus figures.

 

I started my teacher training by doing the GTP (teacher version of an apprenticeships) so I have no PGCE, but I do have QTS. My initial salary was just about 14k before tax. Once qualified it only jumped to 20k. And its been a slow hard slog up the ladder. I'm now in a management position after 8 years of teaching, and I probably earn 10-20k less a year than all my mates from uni who didn't go into teaching. But I love what I do, I'm home in time to see my kids before bed. I'm around at the weekends, I have time off when my kids eventually will. I still do loads of hours un paid, but I do it because I like what I do and I like to see my students succeed. And I'd like to think long after I die, my students will be teaching their own kids the skills I taught them and I shall live on long after I've shuffled off this mortal coil. Never going to be a millionaire, but I've come to terms with that, and I'm content.

 

Yeah, but you got a Jag!

[StevoD]

Defending, or even promoting, the leaving of the educational system by using the extremely rare examples of Jobs, Branson and Gates is reprehensibly irresponsible. If all of those 5 million people who have watched that video had taken it to heart, we would probably have 4.99 million more people now competing in the low paid low skill jobs market.

 

Its nothing more than very eloquent professionally edited "screw the system" tripe.

 

you completely missed the point of the video if you think its saying dont bother with eduction

[rtbiscuit]

I also did Of Mice and Men at school haha. Only book I read, but I got my English GCSEs and enjoyed it actually. I have to say having lived abroad, it is embarrassing the lack of education we have here into things such as History ( I know someone said it was dross), we like to think we are a proud nation of Brits but most people know naff all about our own past, how we got to our current state of affairs and why our culture contains what it does. I volunteered some free time a while back to helping out in a local school, kids loved History actually - it was the usual Mathematics subjects they hated (which are ironically probably the most important, but I am biased!)

History is what happened till yesterday and can't be changed, tomorrow is the future and any decisions I make can either help or hinder me and my family's fortunes.

Maths and English are the important subjects, if you can't communicate and calculate your boundary's are restricted.

Success cannot be measured in money volumes, it is measured in lifestyle and personal happiness.

history is more than just facts, its the ability to look at information and beable to make educated judgements about the information presented to you. Its about being able to understand how we've got to where we are on an international scale. Its being able to distinguish between weak evidence and strong evidence.

 

I'm all for STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) education, but all the other subjects help to build a round curriculum and student.

 

As I tell my students; English maths and science are core subjects, everything else is complimentary. Get your C's in the core subjects, and all the other subjects are there to help boost your overall A-C.

 

Doesn't matter I have a levels and a degree, I couldn't get into teaching without a C in English maths and science.

 

Want to join the police force.. where do you think they want the C grades, same with most courses, colleges, and the military.

 

All those other complimentary subjects help you strengthen your core subjects. Put them into action, practice them. The more you use them, the better you get.

 

If you cut the curriculum right back, you'd have very 2 dimensional students

[sipar69]

History:

 

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.

 

Nietzsche.

[Chesterfield]

Defending, or even promoting, the leaving of the educational system by using the extremely rare examples of Jobs, Branson and Gates is reprehensibly irresponsible. If all of those 5 million people who have watched that video had taken it to heart, we would probably have 4.99 million more people now competing in the low paid low skill jobs market.

 

Its nothing more than very eloquent professionally edited "screw the system" tripe.

 

you completely missed the point of the video if you think its saying dont bother with eduction

 

Its stating that it doesn't matter. Its not a guarantee of success. It doesn't dictate where you will go in life.

 

Which is fine for those who have the aptitude and attitude to succeed at a career.

 

For those who are struggling with education and finding it difficult to stay the course, its a vindication for their dropping out.

 

His whole speech (or rant depending in viewpoint) is based around people feeling that they are measured solely by the results they get in the education system and being pidgeon holed based upon those results. Why should people conform to societies needs if that society has already rejected them etc.

 

Whereas the truth would be that society rejects people who believe in this overtly liberal "everyone wins a medal" brainwashing that is becoming all to common.

 

"Don't worry little Johnny. If you are finding maths too hard, or English too taxing, you don't need to push yourself and struggle through to do the best you can. You have a real talent for papier mashe and balloon art that you enjoy so much, so you can be a success in life"

 

What utter, utter garbage.

 

And when this chaps five minutes of fame run out? Short of getting a gig writing a column for something like the Huffington Post or some other rose tinted socialist utopian organisation, he will be joining the millions of others who think education doesn't really matter all that much.

[StevoD]

dissagree what i get from it is just because people struggle and fail at certain subjects doesnt make you failure

 

but also as said already if for you success is measured on how much money you leave in your will thats fine to you, but dont think people who dont have higher eduction and 6 digits in there bank account are failures because there not

[Chesterfield]

Struggle and fail at certain subjects such as maths and English and a lot of doors will be permanently closed to a person in life. Including doors to the career paths that people may wish to follow even though that chosen career may seem worlds away from mathematics or English.

 

Something which these would be "I have a dream" videos completely ignore.

[StevoD]

Struggle and fail at certain subjects such as maths and English and a lot of doors will be permanently closed to a person in life. Including doors to the career paths that people may wish to follow even though that chosen career may seem worlds away from mathematics or English.

 

Something which these would be "I have a dream" videos completely ignore.

 

like i said in one of my others post one of the slower kids in my year now travels the world welding in all sorts of country because English and maths mean @*!# all with welding

 

another friend in the lower sets has opened his own used car garage as he is good with mechanics and he knows if he can buy a car for 500 spend 200 and sell it for 1300 hes in the black,

 

just because they got a D or E doesnt mean they have no intelligence in that subject

 

would i say both guys are successful yes i would because both are happy and love there jobs

 

Me personally i got D in English would i say im successful to a degree yea ive seen what some of the people who went to and completed sixth form are and there working in retail on minimum wage so in comparison im happy were my D got me and there b got them

Edited May 16, 2014 by StevoD

[350zedd]

Re chesterfields post:

Maybe the case for mainstream careers but not for entrepeneurs

Edited May 16, 2014 by 350zedd

[rtbiscuit]

Most of the kids I see drop out/give up are more than capable of completing the work, they just chose not to, and most refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and attitude. Far easier to blame the system, than to own up to the fact they wasted their own opportunity.

[Chesterfield]

Re chesterfields post:

Maybe the case for mainstream careers but not for entrepeneurs

 

And the ratio of entrepreneurs to those with mainstream careers is?

[350zedd]

I'm not interested in ratios, I'm just saying you dont need maths & english to be an entrepeneur

[Chesterfield]

like i said in one of my others post one of the slower kids in my year now travels the world welding in all sorts of country because English and maths mean @*!# all with welding

 

Other than knowing the correct mig feed speed for the thickness of any given material so that said welding doesn't collapse, or the percentages of oxygen to acetylene to avoid a minor, but life altering explosion, I would agree maths has naff all involvement in welding.

[StevoD]

like i said in one of my others post one of the slower kids in my year now travels the world welding in all sorts of country because English and maths mean @*!# all with welding

 

Other than knowing the correct mig feed speed for the thickness of any given material so that said welding doesn't collapse, or the percentages of oxygen to acetylene to avoid a minor, but life altering explosion, I would agree maths has naff all involvement in welding.

 

well your not a welder clearly

 

i would put money i could give you and some one who knows basic maths (gcse grade E) a WPS a Tig and get you to weld a basic 1G weld both results would be similar

Edited May 16, 2014 by StevoD

[rtbiscuit]

I teach kids to weld, its not rocket science, decent kit and a bit of practice anyone can weld with MiG both MiG and oxyacetylene have charts setup to tell you the settings for the materials. TiG takes a bit more skill as does ally gas welding, but basic welding is just that...basic

[Stutopia]

Some of the subjects and topics I studied in education seemed, on the face of it, pointless. Differentiation being a particularly sore point for me (I still don't get it ).

 

However, I do believe though that it's not always the subject matter that's important. Analysing stuff like Shakespeare or Dickens or some event in history can be tedious, because of this it was years after school before I got interested in subjects I now like (such as learning a foreign language - hated French, love Spanish). However, what I see now is those boring lessons gave me the tools to analyse and reflect on what was both being said overtly and also what was being implied. I personally didn't realise this until much time had passed since finishing school.

 

Of course, not everyone thrives in class, nor should they. It doesn't make you thick or worth less than someone else, I watch in awe as my tech works on my Zed, doing little jobs in second gear where I'd be sweating cobs in shear terror . I'm more suited to operating a spreadsheet than a spanner. One isn't better than the other, it's just different. All that said, I think actively discouraging people from gathering some education is irresponsible.

 

For example: if you're one of the people cut out to be a entrepreneur, then how does having an education PREVENT you from becoming an entrepreneur?

Edited May 16, 2014 by SuperStu

[Bobbyheinz]

The whole education system is completely flawed. The key issue is that generally schools and universities equip kids with knowledge that genuinely has almost no real life application. Even the stuff that does is taught and then memory fade takes place and you might as well not have bothered.

 

Here are some points to consider - why are kids siloed by age as opposed to ability? Why do most universities still use "lecture" as the main form of teaching when it's been shown time and time again to provide the least effective way for people to absorb information? Why if a child copies or asks another pupil for an answer is it cheating and yet in the real world it's "collaboration"?

 

Organisations are struggling to find good quality candidates because the majority of those "qualified" are lacking in emotional intelligence and have little ability to connect with others and that's a direct product of our education system

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bobbyheinz

[gangzoom]

I came to the UK aged 10, when I arrived I did NOT speak a single word of English, and my parents barely had enough money to pay the rent for a single room flat. I saw how hard my parents were working so that I had the opportunity to get educated here in the UK, so knuckled down and work hard. 22 years later I have 11 GCSEs, 4 A levels, 1 degree, 1 doctorate, 2 diplomas, just about to complete a higher postgraduate degree and about to start another.

 

The education system in the UK has empowered me to get a job that I love, become nearly mortgage free at the age of 32, and have enough disposable income to waste stupid £££ on cars/gadgets, and I'm only half way to my maximum earning potential, which I'll hit in the next 10 years. I would say am no more intelligent than the average guy on the street, so if UK education systems has enabled me to archive all this you can see why am a massive fan of it!!

 

The one thing that I really hate about the UK is that so many people born here don't realise just how good they have it.....People in other parts of the world would LOVE to have the chance to be educated for free, and have the opportunity to study at places likes Cambridge and Oxford. The tuitions fees I had to pay to study at University is nothing compared to what places like Harvard/MIT charges.

 

People like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are geniuses, they didn't complete higher education because they were TOO clever, anyone who drops out of school because they think they can do what these guys did are deluding themselves.

 

The point of studying Maths, Physics at school is NOT to force you to memorise pointless facts. It's to train your brain to tackle problems in an efficient cognitive manner. Our ability to deal with stressful situations very much depends on our ability to deal with a large cognitive load, something that subjects like Maths, physics helps you develop. Though I have never needed to use things like complex algebra on real life, in my daily job I do need to make complex decisions in some very time pressured environments, something that is only possible due to cognitive training.

 

But at the same time just having a good education doesn't and shouldn't mean your guaranteed a good job. I might start/finish work at 9-5 etc, but I spend nearly every evening /weekend doing some kind of work related stuff, and I love it. I can guarantee any one with a successful business will tell you the same, there is no substitute for hardwork regardless of your education status!!!

 

The way I see it life is full of opportunities and the people that succeed at the people that grab hold of those opportunities and work hard, something so many people in the UK don't seem to get??

 

Sitting around and moaning has never achieved anything, I learnt this the hard way when I had a 'rebellious' phase at Uni and ended up nearly been chucked off the course!!

Edited May 17, 2014 by gangzoom

[sipar69]

Good points made in this thread. Whatever our views let's be thankful that we have an education system that,despite its flaws, is accessible to all. At least we don't live in a country where you get shot if you're a girl and you dare to go to school.