Clutch biting point very low after new clutch fitted.

[gort]

Hi Guys.

 

I've recently had a new clutch & flywheel fitted,and the biting point is just off the floor, is this normal for a new clutch, and will it gradually go higher up the as the clutch gets older?

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

I had a customer have the same issue recently, in the words of Keyser:

 

The most likely problem is that the slave cylinder has not been bled properly. They are notoriously hard to bleed. Possibly an incorrectly fitted fork or thrust bearing.

 

The third possibility although highly unlikely is he needs "the other" fork and ball joint although this is more gearbox related than clutch related.

[Keyser]

I had a customer have the same issue recently, in the words of Keyser:

 

The most likely problem is that the slave cylinder has not been bled properly. They are notoriously hard to bleed. Possibly an incorrectly fitted fork or thrust bearing.

 

The third possibility although highly unlikely is he needs "the other" fork and ball joint although this is more gearbox related than clutch related.

 

Don't listen to that Keyser bloke he has no idea what he is talking about

 

Unless the customer had the slave bled again and the clutch is now perfect in which case he is a genius

[Chromatic]

Hi Guys.

 

I've recently had a new clutch & flywheel fitted,and the biting point is just off the floor, is this normal for a new clutch, and will it gradually go higher up the as the clutch gets older?

 

*This is just more thoughts/ideas for you.. if you get desperate*

 

I would first take it back to the place you had the clutch installed and have them professionally adjust it (free) before attempting anything yourself.

 

It's not exactly normal,.. but it's quite common with an aftermarket clutch.

 

As was said above it can be due to air in the lines (which bleeding will essentially rid you of),..

 

It can also be as simple as adjusting the locknut at the back of the pedal assembly itself.

 

Just for reference:

 

*Note: Turn on the car.. open door in neutral. Push in clutch and listen, release clutch fully and listen. Notice the difference in sounds both ways. This will come in handy post adjustment.*

 

1. Move the driver’s seat back and get in the floor board on your back. (I personally use a cordless and remove my driver seat (takes 5-10 seconds) -- As I'm 6ft and need all the room I can get. -- The Seat is held down, IIRC, by 14mm bolts. But it is NOT necessary to make this quick adjustment.

2. Remove the fuse box cover. (and Dead pedal if needed for room) -- (You can do this adjustment without this removal as well.)

3. Locate the clutch pedal assembly.

4. Notice the pedal has a fork attached to it; the fork is connected to a rod that goes back toward the firewall.

5. Insert the tip of the screwdriver into the fork and brace it.

6. Place the 12mm open end wrench on the nut located directly behind the fork, on the rod.

7. Break the nut loose.

 

*Note: At this point use a sharpie (or some way of marking on metal) where the rod is located (mark the rod, and the metal that it's going into.. so you know when you've made a complete turn.) -- this is important for returning it back to where it was if needed, and to gauge how far you have adjusted.*

 

8. Grab the rod with your fingers and turn it COUNTER-clockwise. (Clockwise shortens pedal travel, Counter-Clockwise lengthens pedal travel.)

 

*I would start by turning it two (2) full turns.*

 

 

9. Re-tighten the nut.

 

*Test the pedal travel from your initial adjustment. Have the car on, and listen for the throwout bearing (you don't want to release the pedal and not hear the throwout bearing.. aka: You want the clutch to fully engage and fully disengage to prevent pre-mature wear on the clutch or worse.. *

 

In your case,.. It may need 3-4+ turns. This is a limited adjustment though,.. Only goes so far both ways.

10. Replace the fuse box cover. (And dead pedal and Seat if you took any of them out/off)

11. Enjoy.

 

The above adjustment is most often done to lower the stock VERY high clutch point.. So be careful about over-doing this adjustment with your aftermarket clutch. Though it may adjust enough to get it in the range you need while fully engaging and fully disengaging the clutch.

 

This is less likely to be an issue -- but doesn't hurt. You can try to swap the fluid in JUST the clutch reservoir . You would remove the fluid up to the point where the master cylinder line goes in (not below it).. then put in new fluid.

 

Then go into car and pump clutch pedal at least 30 times.. (Usually it will feel the same,..) -- If pressure is there,.. turn on car and pump it more.. drive around a bit.. Rinse/Repeat.

 

Also,.. moving from DOT 3 to DOT 4 can help here. Though this is more of something that will help with the FEEL of a clutch pedal and how the clutch pedal performs under higher heat instances. -- Just adding in more possibilities that you could safely try on your own.

 

Below is a video I made about doing this, which is quite long,.. You can skim through it if you want .. but the process is quite simple --

 

Though I must forewarn you: Some do not agree with this (As I say a few times in the video) method,.. and do so at your own risk. (I actually do not think this will help your specific circumstance, just adding it to be thorough and because I already had recorded this prior.)

 

 

 

Again if possible.. I would take it back to where you had it installed and have them do the adjustments for 'free' before you attempted anything. (Always best)

 

Let us know how it turns out.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Chromatic

[gort]

I would first take it back to the place you had the clutch installed and have them professionally adjust it (free) before attempting anything yourself.

 

I'm taking it back to the garage to have the pedal lowered, but that wont change the actual biting point will it?, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm finding hard to get used to the biting point as it is, but maybe that's how a new clutch is supposed to be like.

[Toon Chris]

I might be wrong but wasn't there a post from one of the experts a while ago that said this can happen if something is fitted the wrong way around, and it was easy to do if the fitters were not Z experienced? I don't want to worry you though, I may be wrong

 

If the bite is very low, as in silly low, then adjusting the pedal does not seem right as it should never really have to be adjusted to make the car drivable. Personally I'd go for the bleed of the slave first.

[Chromatic]

I would first take it back to the place you had the clutch installed and have them professionally adjust it (free) before attempting anything yourself.

 

I'm taking it back to the garage to have the pedal lowered, but that wont change the actual biting point will it?, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm finding hard to get used to the biting point as it is, but maybe that's how a new clutch is supposed to be like.

 

Well that's the thing. The adjustment on the pedal is not really changing the engagement of the clutch.. it's just changing pedal travel mostly. And you *shouldn't* have to adjust a clutch that is engaging like 1-2" off the floor.. That's just TOO close.

 

Something isn't right with the pedal assembly, to Master cylinder, slave, to bearings, springs, forks, etc.. That's all on THEM though. They should know better.

 

Don't let them tell you that's just how aftermarket clutches are.... When it's not right, it's not right. You paid a reasonable sum I'm sure for the fitment/installation labor -- And that was to do it right. You shouldn't pay anymore for them to get the pedal at a reasonable height.

 

The pedal adjustment I talked about is really just to "tweak" pedal height for your own liking really and if you get some extra play in the pedal which happens over time.

 

So.. the more I think about this the more I'm dead set on you not touching anything and insisting they get the pedal the engage at least mid way or so on the travel.. Whatever they have to do .. they have to do. You paid for the job. You don't pay for them to go back and do it "right". If they have to drop the tranny to get this right, it's their fault. Not yours.

 

But hopefully it's just no big deal.. quick fix.

 

I wouldn't overthink this (As I would certainly do if it were my car) and start trying a bunch of things yourself.. I'd leave it where it is.. not touch a thing,,..until you can get it back into the original shop.

 

It sounds like your clutch engagement is "silly low" as Toon Chris put it. A clutch should engage at 5-7 inches from floor at minimum imo.. not 1-2" ever. That's just too sensitive, and annoying.

 

Here is an article about this issue.. but not using a 350Z Or Zed at all.. but it applies to some degree:

 

https://www.powertri..._Adjustment.htm

 

Oh -- If you want to give us a better idea of specifics (while not easy).. try to get a rough estimate of how many inches (cm's, etc) the clutch is traveling from floor before it engages.

 

If it's 1-3" it's NOT right. And I wouldn't accept it. If it's say 8-12" . Then that is fine.. The stock clutch engagement is the highest engagement point of a clutch I've ever driven and I've driven at least 150+ manual sports cars.. So even a drop half way would feel VERY drastic,.. but should actually (at proper height) feel MUCH easier to work with. It sounds very much like yours is engaging the flywheel a few inches off the floor,.. Get a measurement, and I'll work on getting you a specific range for your car using an aftermarket clutch that is in "proper range".

 

Good luck with it.. be nice, but firm with the shop.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Chromatic

[Jp606]

So many words

[Chromatic]

So many words

 

Thanks Captain Obvious

 

Here's your TLDR: Take it back to the shop, 1-3" off the floor flywheel engagement is not normal, Carry on.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Chromatic

[Stutopia]

Fairly reeks of slave cylinder, FWIW, when my clutch dropped low it was the slave. If Keyser says it, I'd ask them to start there when you take it back.

[gort]

incidentally where is the slave cylinder located?

 

ps...thanks for all the comments, guys

[Chromatic]

In the DE's they are accessible without dropping the Transmission -- They are roughly in this area:

 

 

In the HR's the Slave cylinder is inside the Bellhousing/tranny area.. and you must, unfortunately, drop the transmission to replace the slave cylinder which was a poor decision by Nissan for a part that they didn't work the problems out of.

 

In my 2008 I have to drop the transmission to change the Slave cylinder,.. non HR motors get to do it MUCH cheaper.

 

Of course the master is up where your Brake master is in the engine bay.

[rothers2901]

Sounds perfectly OK to me.

Bearing in mind how worn the old clutch was when it was removed? and what year your Z is?.

 

I would think that this is the whole purpose of a hydraulic system. It automatically takes up wear of the clutch and flywheel. As they wear the slack is taken up by the system and the pedal raises.

 

Provided there are no obvious noises such as thrust bearing not fully disengaging then i would say that all is well. When i changed mine the other week (04 Model) the biting point now is pretty much a couple of inches off the floor. Over time i would expect this to change slowly as time passes.

[Chromatic]

Sounds perfectly OK to me.

 

 

Very well may be the case! More confusion for him lol.. That said, if you aren't happy with the clutch engagement point,.. ie: It's going to be most pronounced when starting from standstill in first gear,.. then I'd still get it to my liking. If the shop can't adjust it for you,.. and the factory adjustments I mentioned don't do it for you -- A guy designed a new pedal assembly for $200-$300 to place the original that allows for full range of adjustment if you are interested.. it is in the states.. but is an option if it's something that bothers you. I know for me, the first thing I did on my 350 has adjust the clutch height as the stock height is incredibly high on engagement and is not comfortable at all.

 

Good luck with it.

[gort]

Thanks, I've had it back today, and they've lowered the pedal, no air in the clutch line, so the guy said, and dismissed that idea,so I could be reading too much into this thing.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Chromatic]

Thanks, I've had it back today, and they've lowered the pedal, no air in the clutch line, so the guy said, and dismissed that idea,so I could be reading too much into this thing.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

I didn't think air was in the line.. a low pedal doesn't sound like air to me.. But you said:

 

and they've lowered the pedal

 

Typo? I thought the issue was it was too low to begin with.. Well, the engagement point? Do you mean they just lowered the pedal height overall and the engagement point is the same.. so it doesn't "feel" like you are letting the pedal back as much after it engages?

 

Bottom line.. if it is an issue to drive (easy to stutter in first gear take offs) then it's a problem. If it drives fine .. then I don't see any issue.

 

If it just bothers you with an early bite.. there are adjustments that can be made. I'm not sure why the place didn't offer you the ability to adjust it.. but not all mechanics are equal.

 

Being able to bolt in a clutch and being able to adjust pedal height are two different things. While the latter may seem much easier,.. it's not. It's all about how well you understand the vehicle.. and they are all different, while very much the same.. if that makes sense. The 350 Pedal engagement and pedal height is notoriously way too high stock.. and like I said before.. an aftermarket clutch in place of the stock may just seem like such a drastic change due to the very high engagement you were used to from the stock height. But, I know I could get in your car and drive it for 30 seconds and know if it was overtly right or wrong.

 

All cars engage a little differently on manual trans.. but there is a "common sense" sweet zone for it.. It's not (exactly X inches from floor) it's just a general range that feels right.

 

If it is, indeed, right... then you'll get used to it and no big deal. Like I said there are pedal adjustments (that replace the pedal assembly on the interior side) of the car you can buy (just one I know of).. but it's well made and worth the money if you are particular about your clutch / pedal heights .. as I am.

 

Anyhow.. I think mechanically you are fine.

 

Thanks for the update.