ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Right then, without any more further delay, here is the next exciting episode of the great fallout remover test. As previously mentioned, I intended to do a 3rd place play-off and a final to determine the best offering; the 1st place winner. But then I found the new Poorboys Iron Remover and I had to try it. In fact it's so new that Poorboys World UK doesn't stock it... but then they also don't stock the Black wax either so that doesn't really mean anything. So I ordered some from ECP. (You know those no further delays I mentioned? I lied, here's a delay whilst I have a bit of a rant!). Usually ECP are pretty damn reliable and quick. However they recently moved to a new warehouse and have been having... issues. This time I fell foul of these issues; I received only half my order. Late. And it wasn't even a complete half. I emailed them and was promptly ignored. I attempted the online chat and got cut off and shoved to the back of the (very long!) queue every time I got close to the front of the queue. Every time. EVERY time!! So I phoned them. And got cut off before anyone answered. Four times. So I emailed them again. And got ignored again. Then I got an email back... it was a request for feedback about the online chat that they never responded to. With a transcript of my messages. And no response. The feedback was not generous. But they still didn't get back to me. After 3 weeks I finally managed to get through to them on the online chat. Having sat at number 1 in the queue for 3 hours. From the minute the chat opened that day. Having explained that my order was incomplete and over 3 weeks late, they asked me what the problem was. And then I got cut off. Again. I left the chat open explaining everything with my order number and after another good few hours (must have been close to another 5 hours later, they hadn't long responded when I was packing up to go home from work. Anyway, they had left a message that they would send the missing items out "again". I received one of the missing items 10 days later. Over a month after ordering them. You'll note I said one of the missing items, not all of them, because although I was now in the possession of a bottle of Poorboys Iron Remover and the other item I had ordered (more on that later) I still didn't have the spray head that comes with the Poorboys Iron Remover (or rather doesn't come with it in this case). So it's completely useless to me. I'm still waiting for a response to the emails (and there are a number of them now...) about that but I couldn't be arsed spending another full day waiting for the online chat to work knowing full well I had enough spray heads to find at least one that would work. So the moral of this story; ECP have a become a bit s**t and there's a new contender which means either no 3rd place play-off (yet) or no final (yet). I opted for the former. But before we get to that, Poorboys was put up against Bilt Hamber Korrosol (because I had more of that). Usual routine to wash first; Gyeon Foam snowfoam pre-wash, rinsed, washed with some Waxybox sample shampoo or other and a selection of Megs Microfibre mit and Wheel Woolies then rinsed again, allowed to dry for a few minutes and then attacked with fallout removers. Which will follow shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Shortly. First up, Poorboys Iron Remover. Applied in the first minute did this; Meanwhile on a different wheel Bilt Hamber Korrosol did this within the 1st minute; Both were then left to dwell for about 8-10 minutes, by which time Poorboys Iron Remover did it's best reconstruction of the Massacre of RAYSalonica (honestly, the best I could come up with. Sod off!); Meanwhile Korrosol had done this; They were both then rinsed off, given a few minutes to dry a little and then our contestants swapped wheels. Korrosol did this in the first minute on the wheel previously treated with Poorboys; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) Meanwhile Poorboys did this in the first minute on the wheel previously treated with Korrosol; After 8-10 minutes, Korrosol had done this; And Poorboys had done this; Aside from the odd small spot here and there, most of that is being picked up from the brake disc and those 'orrible wheel weights. So the win definitely goes to Bilt Hamber and there are no last minute changes to the finalists. Poorboys Iron Remover is pretty good though, as Poorboys products tend to be. It doesn't appear to be readily available in the UK just yet though which is a shame really. Like most fallout removers, when you open the bottle indoors, you get the typical rotting corpse stench however when actually using it there's a more detergenty scent to it - it's not a sweet scent like Korrosol, but it's not the typical horrendous stench either, so it's more pleasant to use than most. It seems to work quite quickly but is a thinner liquid than the almost-gel-like-Revolt, as such was starting to dry out after 10 minutes whilst Korrosol was still working away after the same amount of time. I can't comment on the standard Poorboys spray head that is supposed to come with every liquid Poorboys product as ECP ripped me off (I'm not bitter about that at all...), so instead I used an Atomizer Chemical Resistant spray head - the nozzle of which works in the same way as the standard Poorboys spray heads (no idea if Iron Remover gets a special spray head or not because... well, you know why!) so I can only presume it's comparable. Essentially, the spray pattern is adjustable; by turning the nozzle you can go from stream to spray at infinite increments. I opted to go more spray than stream and tried to get as close to the Korrosol spray pattern as possible to make it as fair a test as possible. In summary, it may not be quite as good as Korrosol but I think it'd give some of the more boutique brands a good run for their money. In typical Poorboys style the packaging is adequate and the price is (was!) aimed at the cheaper end of the market - although ECP have put the price up since I ordered it and it's now twice the price I paid (with a small discount) and more expensive than most other offerings. Presumably this will be due to importing it from the US, but either way it's just another reason I won't be ordering from ECP again time soon. It remains to be seen if any other UK stockists pick this up and what sort of price range it'll end up in if they do. Edited May 12, 2018 by ilogikal1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, SuperStu said: Revolt is the winner. I know, it’s what I buy! You could have told me that 3 years ago and saved me three years of my life and a fair amount of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 The final then, as you know, is between Car Chem Revolt and Bilt Hamber Korrosol. Wheels were prep'd in the same way; snow foam, rinse, contact wash with shampoo & were virtually dry by time I got round to this side. Standard procedure; one used on one wheel, the other on a different wheel, both left to dwell for ~10 minutes, rinsed off, wheels given a few minutes to drip dry a little and then the two fallout removers applied to the alternate wheel, left to dwell for ~10 minutes and then rinsed. For this post I'm not going to reveal which product is which until the end. Because... well, because I can, frankly. So Product A was applied to Wheel 1. Within seconds it had done this; Meanwhile Product B was applied to Wheel 2, which immediately did this; Product A on Wheel 1 after ~10 minutes looked like this; Product B on Wheel 2 after ~10 minutes looked like this; Fair to say all four wheels needed decontaminating this time round then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Rinsing happened, then a short break for drip drying followed by; Product A on Wheel 2 immediately looked like this. At which point I was ready to announce Product A the winner - not a huge amount being picked up but there are clearly some spots there that Product B has missed. But to cement that victory, it's only fair to check on Product B. So I did that. Product B on Wheel 1 immediately did this; Oh... there's more than a few spots. I'd go as far to say a few small patches there. So there we have it, Product B is the winner. But which one was Product B I hear you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Well, to complete the test prior to the big reveal, this is what both looked like after 10 minutes; Product A on Wheel 2; Compared to Product B on Wheel 1 after 10 minutes; And whilst I was taking those photos, Product A was still working away (this is after 13-14 minutes on Wheel 2); So whilst Product B picked up more immediately, it was then done. Meanwhile Product A found less immediately but then spent the next 10+ minutes finding more and more. For me, a conclusive win for Product A, but you guys can make your own mind up. And now for the big reveal... drum roll please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Product B, a worthy runner up that will do a better job than almost anything else on the market (by which I mean "in my test") was; Meaning that the winner, and the best fallout remover from a lot of other fallout removers, is Car Chem Revolt! That's it. I'm done with fallout removers now. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 It’s been an absolute rollercoaster, thanks for the time and effort, not to mention the smells. I need never look further than Revolt. 10 minute plus dwell times with fallout removers? I’ve always been a bit worried about leaving them on that long and it drying out, no issues during the test? Would you leave it that long on paint? Also, those wheels still need a refurb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 8 hours ago, SuperStu said: It’s been an absolute rollercoaster, thanks for the time and effort, not to mention the smells. I need never look further than Revolt. My pleasure (apart from the smells!), it's always nice to be able to prove that products I've recommended in the past work well. Quite surprised by the gap between Korrosol and Revolt though, I expected it to be much closer than that! Car Chem FTW. 9 hours ago, SuperStu said: 10 minute plus dwell times with fallout removers? I’ve always been a bit worried about leaving them on that long and it drying out, no issues during the test? Would you leave it that long on paint? Always conducted in the shade wherever possible, which extends the work time, I've found that drying out isn't too much of an issue (provided it's for no more than a few minutes), it's baking on in sunlight that causes problems. I did have an issue with AF Iron Out drying out quite quickly in direct sun (in warm but not especially hot temperatures if I recall correctly) but the others I used in direct sun weren't as bad. I'd definitely encourage working in shade wherever possible and rinsing as soon as it starts to dry out (it's not going to be doing anything by that point anyway!) I'd still keep a close eye on it on paint, but I wouldn't have an issue leaving it that long, or longer, if it wasn't drying out before that. 9 hours ago, SuperStu said: Also, those wheels still need a refurb... They do. I don't have an excuse except a complete lack of arsed. But I've only had the car for about 6 years, you gotta give me some time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADPHONES Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 What a journey. Worth the wait to see the photographic evidence of their performance. You should get some freebies from Car Chem for the testing backing their products Also maybe a sticky somewhere with your recommended products ranking so that the non detailing OCD members have quick access to your findings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 2 hours ago, HEADPHONES said: What a journey. Worth the wait to see the photographic evidence of their performance. You should get some freebies from Car Chem for the testing backing their products Also maybe a sticky somewhere with your recommended products ranking so that the non detailing OCD members have quick access to your findings I did try and get a "Favourite Products' (not just ilogikal approved) vibe going in here. https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/100787-proper-wash-guide-add-your-favourite-detailing-products/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 5 hours ago, HEADPHONES said: What a journey. Worth the wait to see the photographic evidence of their performance. You should get some freebies from Car Chem for the testing backing their products Also maybe a sticky somewhere with your recommended products ranking so that the non detailing OCD members have quick access to your findings A lifetime supply of Revolt seems a fitting reward... I would have considered dropping them a message with a link to the test if it wasn't spread over so many pages with other stuff interspersed - more for feedback for them rather than getting anything from them though. At one point I was thinking of adding an Index to the first post, but I ran out of motivation long before I ran out of pages to index. So I didn't. I might still do a summary thread still, keeping the tests in this one but summarising the results in a separate, easier to digest thread. Having said that, I might also still get my wheels refurb'd, so probably don't rely on that happening... 3 hours ago, SuperStu said: I did try and get a "Favourite Products' (not just ilogikal approved) vibe going in here. https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/100787-proper-wash-guide-add-your-favourite-detailing-products/ Having just re-read through that thread, I haven't changed my opinion on much on there from 2015 actually (I can't even begin to imagine the number of "must have" fads that have hit the market in that time which just haven't lived up to their hype!). I'd upgrade the coating to Synchro, change the glass sealants/coatings now and add Gyeon Foam to the BH/CC snow foam offerings, but otherwise everything else stands still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1en Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 If you can condense the 3 year test into something i can put onto the web site I can throw a couple of free bottles your way! Seeing as i sell the stuff, will make a good newsletter/future promo option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, G1en@waxandshine said: If you can condense the 3 year test into something i can put onto the web site I can throw a couple of free bottles your way! Seeing as i sell the stuff, will make a good newsletter/future promo option. Can't say fairer than that, thanks! I'll see what I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) Before I do that though, I had another test to conduct first. One that @Ekona is particularly interested in and relates to this thread. To prep for this test I proceeded to wash the whole car; foamed with Car Chem Snow Foam (petrol cap, badges, etc were also APC'd and agitated with a boar's hair brush at the same time as the foam), then washed with Car Chem 1900:1 shampoo. Specifically this one; It's amazing how long a litre bottle will last when you use just 12ml per wash (and for those wondering, yes I really do only use 12ml of Car Chem shampoo to a full bucket); After the physical wash, the car was decontaminated with fallout remover (for some reason I seem to have a lot to use up...) - Korrosol in this case because I don't have enough Revolt left to do an entire car. Then de-tarred using Tardis. The headlights were also clayed (with an old school clay bar and everything!) to properly prep for the following test. These eventually arrived from ECP. In this condition. Fortunately all the contents were still present so it was okay. For those interested in what these actually contain, this is the extent of that detail; So death. And this. The test is simple but two fold; firstly, how well it clears up hazy headlights compared to actually polishing (more accurately, whether it's worth going to the extra effort to polish). Secondly how well it protects compared to nothing, GTechniq C5 and Gyeon Mohs. Because I have a little bit of both of those left over and no idea what else to do with those amounts! Surprisingly they're both still liquid after whenever the last time I used them was (they shouldn't be, they're both considerably older than their prescribed shelf life once opened!). The contents are 2x Step 1 Cleaning wipe, 1x Step 2 Protection wipe, 3x identical instruction sheets. Part One then, clearing up hazy headlights. Starting with this; I then taped up - the bit on the headlight lens was just to help focus the camera on the surface of the lens, it was removed before polishing/wiping began! On the above picture, I will be polishing the left headlight (driver's side) and wiping the right (passenger side) headlight. So some before pictures. The passenger side headlight, to be wiped; And the driver's side, to be polished; I then donned my gloves (because death in wipe form) and spent 30 seconds or so thoroughly wiping the passenger side headlight. After drying with a cloth, it looked like this; I then spent about 30 seconds or so polishing the driver's side headlight with Scholl S20 Blue on a tangerine Lake Country Constant Pressure spot pad with the DAS-6 on speed 5 with no extra pressure (just the weight of the machine). After buffing the polish (I didn't do an IPA wipedown because... well, frankly I forgot. Oops.) it looked like this; Much better than the wipe! Which still looked like this; I then decided it'd be a good reference point to have a small polished section on the wiped headlight, so I taped up more; And spent 12 seconds (literally, 12 seconds) polishing just the top left corner - I intentionally chose an area that will be the most exposed to direct sunlight by the way. Which produced this difference (which is even more evident in person); I then sectioned off a bit at the top for Part 2 of the test, so that I can have a section with no protection on, a section with the wipe protection on and a section with a coating (Mohs in this case) all on one headlight, side by side... by side. Mohs will take the top section, the tape line will remain unprotected with the wipes taking the rest of the headlight. After taping up again I used the second Step 1 Wipe on the bottom section again to eliminate the polish affecting the Step 2 Wipe at all. Meanwhile I taped up the driver's headlight so I can have C5 and Mohs sitting side by side - C5 on the left as you look at it, Mohs will be on the right. Due to curing times (the wipes need 4 hours to cure with no contact, C5 and Mohs will both need similar curing times) I've only applied C5 so far, with Mohs going on both headlights tomorrow - on the driver's headlight I will move the tape so that C5 & Mohs are sitting side by side with no gap). Now I did notice that the polish line was much less noticeable immediately after applying the Step 2 wipe on the passenger side, this could be because the surface was still wet, it could be because the Step 2 Wipe is actually the one that does all the work. I'll confirm and get photos tomorrow when it's cured, but as mentioned it needs 4 hours with no contact so I will allow it to cure before sticking a bit of tape to it to get photos. First impressions of the wipes; Step 1 Wipe smells a bit detergenty and didn't seem to do a great deal so I suspect this is merely a cleanse wipe to prepare the surface for the Step 2 Wipe. The Step 2 Wipe smelt very white spirity but until it's cured I've got no comment on that yet. Personally I'm still sceptical, and it really isn't any quicker than polishing. In fact, aside from slightly less set up time, it's not even any less effort than polishing and the above demonstrates that unless the Step 2 Wipe works miracles it's nowhere near good enough to satisfy me... although I appreciate I may be somewhat more demanding than other people on this front. Further update on the tidying up on hazy headlights to come tomorrow. So Dan, pending overnight miracles, polish them mate! Edited May 13, 2018 by ilogikal1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 You sure it's called Mohs and not Show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, SuperStu said: You sure it's called Mohs and not Show? Nope, I'm not sure of anything when it comes to a company that I still have no idea how to pronounce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said: So Dan, pending overnight miracles, polish them mate! Goddammit I wanted a quick fix Excellent work as usual fella, I'll break out the machine next weekend. Interestingly (and I genuinely didn't know this before hand) but we use the same pads as well as polishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, Ekona said: Goddammit I wanted a quick fix Excellent work as usual fella, I'll break out the machine next weekend. Interestingly (and I genuinely didn't know this before hand) but we use the same pads as well as polishes Quick fix; buy a new car with clear headlights. That's one of my old stock of pads that hasn't quite given up yet, my new stock is the Hydro Tech pads - solely because Polished Bliss switched but actually recommend them having used them myself, they're a worthy alternative. I just happened to find this pad first today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I also have a stack of Hydrotech pads from PB as well I find the red ones a little too weak and seem to wear them out far too quickly, although they're utterly brilliant at what they do. The tangerine ones are pretty standard fare, but certainly do what I ask them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 I find the spot pads tend to wear faster than the larger pads... or that might be the other way around. It's been a while since I've used them, I can't remember which ones I've replaced more now. One was definitely better than the other, I know that much! I did find the orange CP pads wear quicker than then tangerine HT pads though, usually around the edges where I'd end up with chunks missing out the side of the CP pads by the end. I don't recall having that with the HT pads yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 11 hours ago, SuperStu said: You sure it's called Mohs and not Show? I alway s wondered that...but i think the idea is, that if you stand the bottle on a shiny panel...it says SHOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Pretty sure it's just coincidence; it's named after Friedrich Mohs who developed the Mohs scale of mineral hardness - considering Gyeon's pride at it being the hardest coating on the market with 9h hardness. It's also actually called Mohs Q2, so whilst Mohs can be read as Show on the bottle it doesn't make any sense with the Q2, so I doubt it's intentional at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 14 hours ago, Ekona said: Goddammit I wanted a quick fix Erm... Miracles may have happened... ish! So, after curing overnight, the wipes have actually impressed me after all. It's evident that Wipe 1 is essentially little to nothing more than an IPA wipe and does nothing but prep the surface for the coating. Which does all the work. All of it. Okay, so it's not as good as polishing, but it's 90% there once the coating is cured. I'd liken it to light swirling on paintwork - 98% of the world wouldn't notice but for that 2% it's enough to be imperfect. If you're looking for a quick fix and you're not striving for perfection, the wipes will do a reasonable job. The caveat being that the coating wipe requires no moisture or humidity to work well - to the extent that the "no contact whilst curing" rule is because of the moisture in your skin! So for best results it needs a manageable environment for the curing period; i.e. indoor application only. It was difficult to capture on camera because of the lighting - in the sun was too bright, in the shade I couldn't pick up the correct angle to show the difference. It's noticeable in person, but I refer back to the light swirling analogy. Bottom right corner is the unpolished section and that's not a shadow on the lens; Roughly in the middle - more evident on the right side; And this shows the hazing that's still present on the bottom section which wasn't polished. The polished section is towards the top. And you can just see a difference here if you're looking for it; It's an improvement over how it started, but it's not perfect. And in that last picture you can also see where the tape line was for the coating wipe. I'm now more confident that it's added some protection given the physical evidence I now have, although durability is TBC. Some finished photos then - Mohs has been applied, but is still curing at the moment. And the overall finished product; Meanwhile on the other headlight, the one that was polished, there's a definite tape line where the two coatings meet so it should be fairly easy to keep track of what's working and what isn't; I'll leave it to you to decide if it's worth the extra 10% for polishing or not. Durability/UV protection will be updated as & when I remember to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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