Berk HFC's Arrived!

[Chromatic]

 

Tbh from what I can tell it does sound very similar if not identical.

 

Look forward to some more videos. Would be good though if you find a good "private road" for putting your foot down a bit more on though.

 

New Camera with External Mic - Exhaust (Invidia Gemini + Berk HFC's)

 

 

I edited this one, because you guys keep ribbing me about my inability to be brief -- So here is your 30 min video cut to 5mins..

 

I was really, really ampressed with the external microphone's performance. This is by far the truest to life Exhaust video I've made, and has to be one of the best on the net.. It's obviously not 100 percent as it is in person,.. But it's MUCH better than previous videos.

 

Note: I stayed within Speedlimits throughout the video, so while it may sound FAST, I kept a close eye on the speed. There is a reason I haven't had a ticket in 15 Years (Since I was 17 years old).. (Luck, and not driving like a maniac.)

[BulletMagnet]

Americans...

Says the one in love with a Camaro

[KyleR]

Running at least 325hp with the mods so far on this HR.

 

You are aware that your car isn't running any more power now than the day you bought it, right?

[Chromatic]

Running at least 325hp with the mods so far on this HR.

 

You are aware that your car isn't running any more power now than the day you bought it, right?

 

No, please explain how my car is exactly the same horsepower as before?

 

I'm not claiming the car is massively more powerful,.. just modest (conservative) gains through the modifications I've done so far, and some additional "speed" through 100 lbs of weight reduction. Next is a tune to maximize everything.

 

The 03-06 DE 350's were Rated utilizing the SAE "net" Horsepower method. 2007+ are rated via SAE "Certified" Horsepower...

 

Thus the VQ35HR makes roughly 20 more wheel horsepower than an equivalently modded non-revup DE. (You running a Rev-up?). So, let's take ~15 percent drivetrain loss = 24 horsepower. Add the 24hp to the 287 rated horsepower for the DE, to estimate the VQ35HR crank horsepower on the "old standard", or subtract 24 horsepower from the 306 (From SAE ratings) of the VQ35HR for a proper estimate of the DE engine on the new Standard for Hosepower rating.

 

So, the VQ35HR on the 03-06 Rating method would result in about 311 Horsepower and the VQ35DE would result in 282hp under the identical (SAE Certified of the 2007+) ratings (again roughly) , instead of the 306 hp the new rating establishes (If identical ratings were used.)

 

But that is really neither here nor there...

 

Not sure if you are being pedantic, doing some wordplay, trying to push some buttons or what? Because it is just not possible for this vehicle to not make a single horsepower gain with Dual high flow intakes (which I rate at next to nothing (zero)),.. Air diversion plate (Which I put at def. zero gain),.. 5 layer silicone air intake Mishimoto tubes (again, zero.. just helps with looks .. which we all know adds horsepower, just not as much as racing stripes ),.. but the true power adders are the Berk Technology High Flow Cats coupled with the True Dual conversion from single exhaust to dual exhaust with the Invidia Gemini system.

 

I can understand some low ratings.. ie: "Don't be surprised if you go dyno at your tune and only get 10 horsepower from that setup".. But I've never heard anyone say, with any legitimacy, that these mods (particularly Berk HFC's + Invidia Gemini Dual Exhaust) will net (zero) Horsepower gain from stock.

 

"Lucy, you've some es'plain'n to do."

Edited March 13, 2014 by Chromatic

[KyleR]

Right, I don't know what that all was because I couldn't be bothered reading it all but...

 

The 350z has an intelligent ecu, it will adjust the map to keep the car running as close to stock as possible. So since you have a few breather mods which in theory allow more air in, the ecu will not open the throttle body as much to counteract this effect.

 

This is why we need a remap to get the gains from the mods, otherwise an uprev would be next to useless.

[Chromatic]

Right, I don't know what that all was because I couldn't be bothered reading it all but...

 

Was just an explanation of the true differences in the DE and HR engines -- and why the readings we see from each on Dyno's are what they are "roughly".

 

The 350z has an intelligent ecu, it will adjust the map to keep the car running as close to stock as possible. So since you have a few breather mods which in theory allow more air in, the ecu will not open the throttle body as much to counteract this effect.

 

This is why we need a remap to get the gains from the mods, otherwise an uprev would be next to useless.

 

Ah.. well I was under the impression that the computer does compensate, but not necessarily to keep it at X horsepower,.. in other words, that I may be getting say 40% of the power from my mods now.. and with the Uprev tune I'm getting done next it will pull out the full power. From all I've read and understand the computer doesn't completely eliminate 100% of horsepower gains .. But I totally agree that without a Tune I'm definitely not getting anything near what I could, should.. and it's definitely time for one.

 

Only reason I haven't got it done yet is because I'm still trying to find an 07, 08, or 09 350Z Cluster so I can have the Cruise control lights .. as I'm getting it flashed to cruise control with the tune.. I've done the rest already.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Chromatic

[GMballistic]

Loved the video Chromatic.

 

Sounded fantastic being able to hear the exhaust from the outside like that. So that's why people turn their heads when I put my foot down!

 

 

On the remap subject I do have to agree with KyleR as from what I've read it is true about the stock ECU on the Zed. Just save up those penny's (cents ) and get the Zed remapped. Then you'll know what power you've actually achieved and the car will be much better for the tune up.

[DoogyRev]

Nice Vid

 

. . . now go and do the same, but in the longest tunnel you can find

[Chromatic]

Loved the video Chromatic.

 

Sounded fantastic being able to hear the exhaust from the outside like that. So that's why people turn their heads when I put my foot down!

 

Hehe.. Yeah I'm a perfectionist of sorts.. so still trying to get the best audio I can. That new camera with separate external mic, attached outside the car really made a difference. Like my Slow Mo, Po Po?

 

 

On the remap subject I do have to agree with KyleR as from what I've read it is true about the stock ECU on the Zed. Just save up those penny's (cents ) and get the Zed remapped. Then you'll know what power you've actually achieved and the car will be much better for the tune up.

 

Hrmm.. I'll agree that a tune is in order and it's planned just like all this other stuff has been planned lol.. It's coming. I've been talking with the Tuner for 1-2 months now.. just had to get to a certain level of modifications before it warranted the $500.. I may go get the tune done without having the new cluster to put in so I can actually see when Cruise is set on.. as it will still work,.. Just hope it doesn't confuse the tuner who has never flashed a Z for "cruise control"... but he's super cocky and protective of his "reputation".. to the point I'd like to use another Tuner but Uprev tuners aren't just on every street corner here lol.

 

 

Nice Vid

 

. . . now go and do the same, but in the longest tunnel you can find

 

hehe.. I've been trying to think of some tunnels.. but can't think of any off hand,.. I know there are plenty around here -- Just need to find one. Bound to sound insane in a good one. I should keep that Mic and Cam in the car at all times just in case I spot something cool lol..

[GMballistic]

You are spot on though. For $500 it's best to only do the remap once so yes get all the mods done first.

[Chromatic]

You are spot on though. For $500 it's best to only do the remap once so yes get all the mods done first.

 

Yup.. There's not anything left really bolt-on that is going to add power to this HR motor.. Nothing I can think of. Short of going Forced Induction. Am I missing something? Seems a little sad that intakes, cats, and cat-back exhaust is about it lol.. But that's the way it seems. That's ok,.. It's plenty of power for me. But if there is some couple hundred dollar power addition I'm missing some how let me know.

[KyleR]

There is of course only so far the ecu can dial back the upgrades, so once everything is done (you need headers ) you may well be a few hp up, infact now you may be a few up, but not even close to 325. The car stock is supposed to be 309, so more like <300 in reality at the fly, but after a good tune you should hopefully see about 310 or so at the wheels

[Chromatic]

There is of course only so far the ecu can dial back the upgrades, so once everything is done (you need headers ) you may well be a few hp up, infact now you may be a few up, but not even close to 325. The car stock is supposed to be 309, so more like <300 in reality at the fly, but after a good tune you should hopefully see about 310 or so at the wheels

 

I expect more like 290ish at the wheels.. based on others with similar mods tunes.. we'll see.

 

As for headers.. no thanks. I've done everything but the headers.. The labor is , well, just too much. Power vs. Cost isn't there.. And,.. on a rare occasion you have to pull the engine to do headers on the car.. At the very least you have to lift it up off the mounts. Plus the exhaust is as loud as I ever want it lol.

 

I'm frankly happy with the power it had when I got it.. and the tune will be a bonus,.. I want the tune 50% for just cruise control to be enabled .. no kidding.

 

I've asked this before elsewhere.. But there's nothing else to add to the car bolt on is there? (Besides headers).. I don't do under-drive pulleys,.. I don't like making things less efficient, esp. with the stereo I installed in this car. No putting larger Throttle bodies in.. etc. Seems, it's Intake, Remove Cats, change Exhaust to a good dual system.. and get a tune basically. From there if you really are interested in horsepower.. save your bucks and 10-15 grand later get some turbo's.. unless you want to go Supercharger.. for a bit less.

[GMballistic]

Supercharger over turbo on the Zed every time for me. Much safer/cooler on the engine and it will see a great power increase across the entire rev range.

 

I can't think of anything else to do on your HR Chromatic for any sensible money to get more power. Next up on an N/a build engine you are talking cams/pistons etc and then you quickly start talking big bucks for relatively small gains imo.

[KyleR]

The headers will actually give you more gains than you'll get with your current set up, I should imagine. Think about it, the flow is only as good as the most restrictive part, thats the crap headers now, they're restricting the nice flow to your Berks and Inividia. I can't say i've looks at the HR headers, but on the DE they are awful, but can be changed out without moving the engine. You just put it on the lift, take off the gearbox and away you go

 

It's a perfect thing to do at the same time as a clutch change.

[Chromatic]

The headers will actually give you more gains than you'll get with your current set up, I should imagine. Think about it, the flow is only as good as the most restrictive part, thats the crap headers now, they're restricting the nice flow to your Berks and Inividia. I can't say i've looks at the HR headers, but on the DE they are awful, but can be changed out without moving the engine. You just put it on the lift, take off the gearbox and away you go

 

It's a perfect thing to do at the same time as a clutch change.

 

Well my research has led me down a different line of thought.. But besides.. I'm very happy with my sound,.. So I *doubt* I'll do headers.

 

I have a feeling I will do a new clutch, new flywheel, new Slave and Master Cylinders before this one gives out.. at that time I *may* consider headers.. but again, it is more important to me to have the exhaust stay where it is and not get any louder.. I worked pretty hard to get the sound I have and wouldn't want to change it.

 

Good headers will give at best 8-10 hp on an HR motor. The HR headers are considerably better than the DE.. They have better flow, and are equal length (ish).. So as with many things on the HR motor; Nissan improved yet another part of it which causes less net gains from an aftermarket part.

 

Also, the stock Catalytic converters are undebatably the biggest bottleneck on the Zed.. which is why they give the most HP bang for the buck.. I know this from my own butt dyno, other's dyno's, and talking to a few designers at Motordyne, and Berk Technology.. (who were talking to me after I had the product.. and were not salesmen lol)..

 

But, 10hp or so is hard to get on the HR (it's not easy on the DE).. I think I'm pretty much tapped out for bolt ons. I think from here I will focus on the Tune, and Cluster (which will involve swapping it out, sending it off for mileage change (getting official DMV mileage change notice.. *not so crazy about that on resale* as it looks fishy).. etc etc..

 

I think I will feel quite a large difference from the tune.

 

I've been talking to some other tuners local (within 100 miles) and found one that I feel much more comfortable with than the guy who is 25 miles away (which I didn't feel comfortable with.. (ie: wouldn't let me stay with my car if I needed to.. etc).. this new tuner is contacting uprev now to get all the info on the Cruise Trim switch(file).. and is $600.. It's about a 90 mile drive, but that's fine with me to work with someone that's not egotistical and willing to work with you, and realizes they are a SERVICE and need to do what the customer wants and is paying for.. (as you can tell the first tuner doesn't want to listen to me about my wants for MY car very much lol).

[Chromatic]

I'm thinking about other spots for the external microphone for the exhaust sound.. The best spot so far has been just above the tag below the hatch opening.. the spot below the tag above the exhaust was not as good. I'm wondering if mounting it ON the rear muffler/resonator/baffle itself would be nice? The great thing about this gecko mount is it will mount on any smooth surface. So the sky is the limit and it's just up to your creativity. Hrmm.. ;D

[GMballistic]

Re: other tuner Chromatic ~ I drove 98 miles to get my car it's UpRev from a reputable garage who know their stuff. Definitely worth the drive imo even if it does cost a little more.

 

 

If my clutch needs replacing in the future I think I may look at what's available then for my DE in terms of exhaust manifolds (headers) but as you say I doubt it will be a massive power gain & I'm sure the cost of doing it (if not when having a clutch or similar job done) will out way the hike in power tbh.

 

Would be a shame to ruin the nice exhaust sound true, but you never know it may sound even nicer afterwards.

[Chromatic]

Re: other tuner Chromatic ~ I drove 98 miles to get my car it's UpRev from a reputable garage who know their stuff. Definitely worth the drive imo even if it does cost a little more.

 

 

If my clutch needs replacing in the future I think I may look at what's available then for my DE in terms of exhaust manifolds (headers) but as you say I doubt it will be a massive power gain & I'm sure the cost of doing it (if not when having a clutch or similar job done) will out way the hike in power tbh.

 

Would be a shame to ruin the nice exhaust sound true, but you never know it may sound even nicer afterwards.

 

I agree ,.. a 90 mile drive isn't too bad.. Be about an hour to an hour and a half max.. That I can handle.. (though those drives on the Freeway/Interstate REALLY make me want my cruise control..) -- Which, the bonus will be I'll have cruise control for the way back.. (if all goes well).

 

I'm leaning towards not buying a $250 used cluster.. then spending another $60 getting the mileage adjusted in it.. THEN installing it (I thought install would be super easy, but apparently you have to remove the needles and then it's not easy to get them back to the same place they were before.. which could lead to incorrect RPM, fuel, and so on readings.. ) -- Always something.. sigh. I suppose if I order a cluster that has the "housing" the plastic around it in perfect condition I can just swap that out without what I had in mind .. which was replacing the "guts" from the new/used cluster into my housing. The "best" solution would be to find a cluster that had miles within a few k of my own.. then no mileage change would be necessary,.. I really don't want to get that "mileage change form" from the Dep. of Motor Vehicles.. which then will show on the Title a mileage adjustment.. which is going to seem "fishy" to anyone who buys the car.. I know I'd be a little concerned. Really, really wish the electronic place I'll be sending the cluster to could just solder in LED's to make my already existing cluster that has the Cruise and Set on the board light up.. but people in the "know" say those lights are signaled by the processor on the cluster and aren't just some 'on/off' deal..

 

Anyone know if ALL cars.. included Base models have the Cruise and Set lights on them? -- I'll ask this in a new thread in appropriate area, but was just curious if anyone knew.

 

I agree.. you never know what it's going to sound like after headers.. but I do know it will be louder by some degree.. Hey don't put the honus on me.. lol,..

 

I've noticed a lot of people who don't even have the perf. mods I have so far start talking to me about adding other stuff, and telling me what I am doing wrong, etc.. It's like, come on man.. speak about it when you have done it to your 350.. then you can speak with a little more authority. I can and do read the same stuff everyone else does lol.. So unless you have it personally done to your vehicle, there's not much difference. (Not directed at anyone.. just something I notice on various forums )

 

When I get around to doing the clutch at some point.. I'll look into the labor costs of headers at that point just to see.. but I've talked to multiple mechanics about header installs before on this car.. and they all say the typical.. well I won't know until I'm finished.

 

I've yet to find a mechanic who will give a SET price and if they go over on time,.. they eat it. Instead it's I'm X an hour.. it may take 2 hours it may take 5.. I don't know.

 

Which is fine,.. but I think unless you are doing something you have never done before and is "unique" you should have a fair idea of the time that is "fair".. And give that as a SET price,.. if you go over that time because you can't figure something out.. it's not the customers fault you aren't as fast as another guy would be..

 

I think mechanics should say.. Ok this should take 2 hours.. I'm $100 an hour.. so it should be about $200.. But, if you want a set price then it's 3 hours.. $300 -- If you want to just see how long it takes me.. then it could be 1.5 Hours, or 2 hours.. being $150-$200 -- (Sort of a gamble of sorts). Depending on what the job was.. I'd take both depending..

 

IE: The HFC or Header install I'd take a set price.. a catback install.. I'd go with the "Gamble" of the hourly (however long it takes me)..

 

Again though, this is why I've done most everything myself.. and am building my tool arsenal.. I've already saved thousands of dollars in labor by doing things myself. Everyone should who is mechanically inclined. It gives a great sense of accomplishment. Now I wouldn't go rebuilding your engine, or installing a Camshaft using the internet lol for your first time.. but you know what I mean.

[GMballistic]

Definitely agree and know what you mean. My local garage couldn't give me a set price for fitting my Berks HFC's and Invidia system. He said the exhaust alone he could (which I understand) but the Cats he wasn't sure about as they could cause problems ~ as you know.

 

I was happy enough though to agree with it as I couldn't get under my car even with my axle stands enough to fit the Cats and in the end it cost me £95odd ($158). Not too bad for the 4+hours labour it ended up taking.

[Chromatic]

Definitely agree and know what you mean. My local garage couldn't give me a set price for fitting my Berks HFC's and Invidia system. He said the exhaust alone he could (which I understand) but the Cats he wasn't sure about as they could cause problems ~ as you know.

 

I was happy enough though to agree with it as I couldn't get under my car even with my axle stands enough to fit the Cats and in the end it cost me £95odd ($158). Not too bad for the 4+hours labour it ended up taking.

 

Can drop the conversions when it's done locally lol.. Is your petrol half price? Your bread half price?

 

95 pounds for 4+ hours of labor is insanely cheap.. that's less than 25 pounds an hour.. Perhaps the average rate there is 25-40 pounds an hour on mechanical work. Here it's about 80-110 an hour.. Just depends on where you live, they tend to jack up the prices living where I do. Again, big reason I've been building my tool collection , getting the impact setup going, etc.. So I won't need the mechanics for much.. Just missing a lift,.. one day, one day

[GMballistic]

Definitely agree and know what you mean. My local garage couldn't give me a set price for fitting my Berks HFC's and Invidia system. He said the exhaust alone he could (which I understand) but the Cats he wasn't sure about as they could cause problems ~ as you know.

 

I was happy enough though to agree with it as I couldn't get under my car even with my axle stands enough to fit the Cats and in the end it cost me £95odd ($158). Not too bad for the 4+hours labour it ended up taking.

 

Can drop the conversions when it's done locally lol.. Is your petrol half price? Your bread half price?

 

95 pounds for 4+ hours of labor is insanely cheap.. that's less than 25 pounds an hour.. Perhaps the average rate there is 25-40 pounds an hour on mechanical work. Here it's about 80-110 an hour.. Just depends on where you live, they tend to jack up the prices living where I do. Again, big reason I've been building my tool collection , getting the impact setup going, etc.. So I won't need the mechanics for much.. Just missing a lift,.. one day, one day

It was from an independent garage locally and I have known the owner for years since we met on a Subaru forum when I had my Impreza WRX.

 

Think it was a bit of mates rates tbh and I knew it was fairly cheap so also gave him a few Buds to drink.

[Chromatic]

I hear ya..

 

Man,.. these Engines are HOT. It's only 74 F (23.3c) out today,.. and a 20-30 minute drive I pull over to have a smoke,.. lift the hood to listen to things.. (Engines are a bit noisy.. meh) -- But anyways the heat they put out is something else.

 

IE: Burn your hand to hold it on the engine hot.. - Hottest running engine bay I can ever remember having,.. Seems like things would melt under there somewhat easily with time. Especially in the climate I live in.

 

I usually don't pay much attention to it,.. but since I've put on those intake hoses and air diversion plate I've been feeling the intake tubes just to see how warm/hot they are from time to time.. And I keep getting reminded how damn hot the engine bay is. Hood remains cool ,.. so very little heat is able to escape these engine bays..

 

Heat rises,.. no vents = Crazy buildup of heat. The lower cover probably doesn't help the temps any.. but I'm sure it's partial headers/exhaust + engine in general. I wouldn't think HFC's would cause *more* heat.. in fact I'd think it would lower heat output over stock cats that have some level of wear/buildup. To be fair, I never "measured" the temp of the engine when I got it.

 

It has me thinking about hoods and ways to let heat escape from the engine bay.. The cheapest choice seems to be a carbon fiber (roughly same weight) with vents built in. But,.. I don't like the look of Black on any other color but black. Just looks like an unpainted panel to me.

 

The actual coolant temps are fine.. Never goes over halfway.. and always stays (warmed up) just under the halfway point. So I suppose this is just the way they are,.. but some power loss has to occur with such heat surrounding the intakes.

 

I can tell the plastic around some of the factory wiring (grommeting) like the covers to the MAS wiring is grey and brittle.. and has to just be from high heat. Makes me want to rewire the electric fan to stay on 100% of the time.. although that's going the wrong way (to the radiator) and not toward the engine.. plus there is no real area for the heat to escape (which is the culprit to start with). So even with something to move air in there it just wouldn't have anywhere to go but down, hit the cover.. and the slight bit of room by the header to cat flanges..

 

Not looking to spend say $800 (or so) on a hood.. then another $1000 for paint.. just to have a few vents -- Just an observation I guess.

 

I've been looking around for "heat solutions" .. but there aren't many people concerned with in engine bay heat.. The coolant is fine, so the engine is fine internally,.. but the air intake temps have to suffer I suppose. Maybe I should put some intercoolers on my intakes

[GMballistic]

I don't feel the engine temperatures are a problem for me but then it is a lot hotter for you where you live.

Some people have fitted bonnet (hood) spacers to allow the hot air to escape but imo it really spoils the clean lines of the car and does make it look a little bit like it's had a front end crash which someone hasn't repaired.

Like the picture below;

 

 

Achieved using this type of thing;

 

 

But for what they are you could probably make some easy enough if you wanted to. Not for me though.

[Chromatic]

Interesting on the hood spacers.. but , nope,.. That looks horrible! Who would do that to their car? Maybe to a track only car.. But no.. I'd rather put on a carbon fiber hood with vents that was black than screw the lines up.

 

Would look like this on my car:

 

 

Not terrible.. but still questionable because it looks a bit like an unpainted body panel ..

 

But it would do wonders for under hood heat buildup,.. which is primarily hurting your intake air temps.. And secondarily causing damage to rubber, plastic, and other such components under the hood. The heat really is remarkable under the hoods of the 350's.. Even when it's 0 Celsius out,.. the heat was high. It's normal, it isn't something specific to my car,.. it's just the way it was designed, which was poorly with no where for the heat to go.. but the engine cooling system does fine to keep the motor at proper temps.. so functionally for a daily driver it's no big deal, which was the 'engineering' desire.. Intake temps weren't a huge concern, but at least on the HR's they pulled the air from the outside and not inside the engine bay -- which, again, is why I don't understand why people put conical intake systems that sit inside the super hot engine bay on. Unless they are willing to give up power in favor of the intake noise.

 

They look cool.. but are yanking in air that is 100-200+ degree's F depending.. Even, as I mentioned, on cold days that engine heats up under the bonnet a good bit. What's so odd is how the hood itself stays so cool in contrast. I guess is good for the paint,.. but I'd rather the hood take some of that heat so the air running across would let the hood act as a heatsink of sorts.

 

I don't "race" this car.. but a Carbon Fiber hood with vents that looks great may be in my future. I may get one put it on.. then if it bothers me I can get it painted at a later time. But, for now I'm done for a bit on spending lol..

 

The car is up for a detail/polish/wax/wash.. tune .. and enjoyment. Though it's difficult for me , now, to not continue to have some project ongoing.

 

I think I went a little too fast these first 3 months knocking out all the major stuff.. my future projects I think I'll try to take my time lol.. Doing engine dressing, especially painting myself,.. shouldn't be too terribly expensive and I can get creative with it maybe make it a little unique but classy under there.