sloutrou Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Evening all, Had a look on the internet as it's a question that I've been pondering for a while, and am interested to hear your views on it. I don't know the intricacies of the development process, but I assume that a fibreglass kit is produced from a mould of sorts, but what gauges the price that a bodykit or part should be sold at, on the basis that most kits need a certain amount of modification by the bodyshop to fit properly? I know for a lot of kits there are import duties to pay and that original Nissan parts aren't the easiest to come by, but I just wondered if I'm missing something, I mean £350 for a FRP spoiler, I know profit margins have to be squeezed but it just feels so....overpriced to me? Am I alone in thinking this, in which case I'll grab my coat on the way out Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Supply and demand. A company will charge as much as people are willing to pay, basically. But I agree, on the face of it that seems overpriced to me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35oz's Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Make something out of fibreglass you will soo realise why it's so expensive To make a mould -prep it clean fill sand etc -apply releasing agent (either PVA or 5-6 coats of wax with drying time in between) -apply gel coat allow 2 hours to become tacky -apply one layer of fibreglass and allow to dry for 1 hour -apply a further 4-5 layers of fibreglass matting and allow to dry for up to 24hrs -release the mould To get the part you pay for use the mould and follow the above all over again It may sound overpriced but I can actually understand why prices are like that now, after doing fibreglass work myself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:RedZed: Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 FWIW coming from a VW, everything Japanese car related (perhaps it's just the 350) seems expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 As above, development costs, labour intensive and relatively low volume production. Would cost a lot more in carbon/ Kevlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 You can get cheap stuff pretty easy.. I've bought some myself it was sh1t and didn't fit. As someone who sells and buys stuff for my own car I do understand a little where you are coming from, but you can say the same thing about a packet of crisps, a pair of trainers, a car. The actual cost of something to make may be cheap but the hidden costs are huge. Ask RT, Falcon, Abbey, Clark, CS etc what it costs in wages, rent, insurance, websites blah blah and you will probably be surprised what they need to turnover just to survive, we all would like every business in every sector to sell us stuff at the same price as it cost them to make the product but if that was to happen they wouldn't be a business for very long. Incidentally I have some spoilers coming in at around £150 so don't take offense at what I wrote above as I could do with some sales 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 A customer at Falcon bought a full v/side kit with arches..... Arches were nothing like and everthing else needed modifying beyond belief. Apparently it was all made by experts in the UK, but experts of what we are still unclear Buy cheap and ultimately you 'pay the price' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As someone who quite recently bought a replica Nismo V2 with carbon fibre lip and canards for decent money, take it from me, pay the money for excellent or authentic stuff. If I had to do it again, i'd buy a genuine Nismo and have the lip and canards skinned. Most traders replica stuff on here is excellent for replicas. The likes of Tarmac/CS will test fit and if its not up to scratch, won't reorder and RT make their own stuff from a mould made from the genuine part. So many parts are made from a replica of a replica of a replica and this is why we get ill fitting parts that need way too much work to make fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As said previously, its all the work that goes i to getting the part. You need an actual part,called a pattern, then that needs prep work, then there is making the mould, then prep work for getting the mould ready, then there is actually making the part,and then trimming it up ready for a customer. Yes,i often baulk at prices for some fibreglass stuff, but when you realise the work and time that goes into actually getting the end product, it seems a little more worth the money. And thats before you sell it to a shop who are supplying to customers. The quality stuff will have had the work done to makesure the pattern is exact,then the mould is made slowly and left to cure properly, and then the same with the part itself. If parts are released from the mould after then have just cured, they distort and twist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As said previously, its all the work that goes i to getting the part. You need an actual part,called a pattern, then that needs prep work, then there is making the mould, then prep work for getting the mould ready, then there is actually making the part,and then trimming it up ready for a customer. Yes,i often baulk at prices for some fibreglass stuff, but when you realise the work and time that goes into actually getting the end product, it seems a little more worth the money. And thats before you sell it to a shop who are supplying to customers. The quality stuff will have had the work done to makesure the pattern is exact,then the mould is made slowly and left to cure properly, and then the same with the part itself. If parts are released from the mould after then have just cured, they distort and twist. Yep Daryl..agree. Great moulds are all well n good, but if the parts are popped from mould before cured, will be @*!# and twisted, Had it happen twice lately......once was my own fault for buying cheap, but the other was from a rep supplier. By the time I got around to checking supplied part, was too late to moan about it. Managed to fit both parts but a real ball ache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As said previously, its all the work that goes i to getting the part. You need an actual part,called a pattern, then that needs prep work, then there is making the mould, then prep work for getting the mould ready, then there is actually making the part,and then trimming it up ready for a customer. Yes,i often baulk at prices for some fibreglass stuff, but when you realise the work and time that goes into actually getting the end product, it seems a little more worth the money. And thats before you sell it to a shop who are supplying to customers. The quality stuff will have had the work done to makesure the pattern is exact,then the mould is made slowly and left to cure properly, and then the same with the part itself. If parts are released from the mould after then have just cured, they distort and twist. Yep Daryl..agree. Great moulds are all well n good, but if the parts are popped from mould before cured, will be @*!# and twisted, Had it happen twice lately......once was my own fault for buying cheap, but the other was from a rep supplier. By the time I got around to checking supplied part, was too late to moan about it. Managed to fit both parts but a real ball ache. Further from this, taking care of the mould is also expensive. Getting the part out of the mould can damage the edges of it so you'll need to ensure that the mould is taken care of to ensure that no imperfections transfer into the end product. A lot of cheap parts are ok in the middle and the edges are where the part won't line up or will need a lot of work. Buy a cheap 350 bumper and have a look around the headlights at the lines, I'd put money on nothing lining up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) A customer at Falcon bought a full v/side kit with arches..... Arches were nothing like and everthing else needed modifying beyond belief. Apparently it was all made by experts in the UK, but experts of what we are still unclear Buy cheap and ultimately you 'pay the price' A lad on the Rx7 forum bought a replica Veilside Fortune kit, maybe the same guy! £8k which in respect isnt too bad when the original cost in excess of £12k i think, although it obviously needed a fair bit of work. I appreciate the mentioned design/mould costs and know there are a lot of panels for that kit etc but £8k let alone £12k is just a ludicrous sum for some fiberglass. Edited February 6, 2014 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Ye 8k for a fake kit is nuts! But then again 2k for one that doesn't fit is equally ludicrous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Ye 8k for a fake kit is nuts! But then again 2k for one that doesn't fit is equally ludicrous Still a £4k saving, lol. I have never known a replica to fit like an original (i dont mean oem). I went through quite a few different front bumpers in my rx7 days. Some ranged from needing a tweek so the saving was justified and the worst would have ended up costing me more to correct than an original so was sent back. Any original RMagic, Mazdaspeed etc pretty much fitted like oem. So long as you can buy and fit a replica for less than its original counterpart its worth doing, but because of my experience, unless there is universal praise surrounding its quality, i avoid replicas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Agreed, stick with Tarmac! If he says it fits it will. If it doesn't return it and kick him square in the nuts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 There are certain cars it's hard to get well fitting kits for, the MK4 supra is one, I've seen SO many with badly fitting front bumpers, mostly around the headlights. On the 350 as well it seems to be around the headlights a good kit sets itself apart from the bad ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Agreed, stick with Tarmac! If he says it fits it will. If it doesn't return it and kick him square in the nuts 10/4 on that. The part is also reliant on the pattern being correct,and fitting. If the original part the mould is taken from is rubbish,then it all just gets exaggerated when your making the parts from the mould. Its all down to quality of workmanship and care and attention to detail. Dont even get me started on carbon products! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Agreed, stick with Tarmac! If he says it fits it will. If it doesn't return it and kick him square in the nuts 10/4 on that. The part is also reliant on the pattern being correct,and fitting. If the original part the mould is taken from is rubbish,then it all just gets exaggerated when your making the parts from the mould. Its all down to quality of workmanship and care and attention to detail. Dont even get me started on carbon products! The amount I've spent on carbon which could go in the bin makes me angry thinking about it. Start carbon rant: Stuff which looks amazing new, and then after a few months the resin starts to go funny because it's cheap, and then when you see edges which have been filled with resin to make it the correct shape and they only become visible after a little bit. Proper pre preg carbon is safer, but waaay more expensive and few people use it. End rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloutrou Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Looks like I've started something! At some point, I'd like to buy the Nismo v3 kit, but somehow feel that bolting expensive fibreglass to my car in some way just feels 'wrong'. I know the counter argument is to buy the real thing which of course is 400% more expensive. If only the stuff wasn't so brittle that if you so much as stare at it the wrong way it falls to pieces... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Looks like I've started something! At some point, I'd like to buy the Nismo v3 kit, but somehow feel that bolting expensive fibreglass to my car in some way just feels 'wrong'. I know the counter argument is to buy the real thing which of course is 400% more expensive. If only the stuff wasn't so brittle that if you so much as stare at it the wrong way it falls to pieces... Hate to tell you this bud, but the "real" stuff is fibreglass too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomb Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Are there any replicas (nismo v1) that are up to the same sort of quality as the real thing? Edited February 6, 2014 by Tomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Are there any replicas (nismo v1) that are up to the same sort of quality as the real thing? Plenty! Theres some of better quality too. I think tarmac can get them in polyurethane unlike the nismo originals which are fibreglass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Nothing wrong with fibreglass at all, it's a great material. It's the cheap crappy moulds that aren't accurate and are made with too much haste! Ferrari don't have issues with their fibreglass bumpers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsexr Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Its the same for bikes mate We always say When does plastic become titanium When they stick it on a japanese bike... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ^^ Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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