Should Scotland vote to leave the UK ?

[WhackyWill]

Perhaps a strange question but if this gets say a 50.5% yes vote does that mean it will happen or does there have to be an overall majority and if the vote is yes, how long will it take for Scotland to be independent. will be instant?

 

..."instantly" - I suddenly had visions of the people in the north of England waking up the day after the vote to see a huge wall being slung up on the horizon

 

Yep ! Been built by Romanians and Bulgarians....

[The G Man]

For me it's about people voting Yes for all the wrong reasons. It just seems that there are lots of questions put to the people who will be taking Scotland into independence that they simply wont address. You can talk your way around it in a lead up to a vote, but come match time, you cant simply skip around it, do you trust the people in charge to come up with the practical responses?

 

The Common Weal, I appreciate its a vision and it sounds 'nice' but you asked people to read it and I had a quick look but found it to be two things, impractical and contrary to human nature (unfortunately humans are greedy) in addition to it again being written as a very biased propaganda piece. For instance the first principle is listed as:

 

A Common Weal Approach

Assume that mutual and shared working towards mutual and shared goals will produce the best society and the best economy

The London Orthodoxy Approach

Assume that competition and conflict will allow the strongest to rise and that they alone should shape society and the economy

 

Which could easily be written as:

 

A Common Weal Approach

Mutual and shared goals limit innovation and aspiration, no one should sees any chance of becoming anything greater than what is dictated to them by the ruling party who deem all you succeed in is given to those who do not

The London Orthodoxy Approach

Competition inspires people to greater things, to innovate to succeed, to drive their competitors to work harder to counter their success and drive international investment through the providence of a healthy competitive environment

 

I appreciate there are hardly any objective texts on political approaches, but this is pretty far from being a plausible one, well from my laymans view it is, be good to see an economists view on it.

 

Ooh that's deep mate, but not something I would base a constitution on.

[Jetpilot]

Perhaps a strange question but if this gets say a 50.5% yes vote does that mean it will happen or does there have to be an overall majority and if the vote is yes, how long will it take for Scotland to be independent. will be instant?

 

..."instantly" - I suddenly had visions of the people in the north of England waking up the day after the vote to see a huge wall being slung up on the horizon

 

We live in hope again

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jetpilot

[The G Man]

Perhaps a strange question but if this gets say a 50.5% yes vote does that mean it will happen or does there have to be an overall majority and if the vote is yes, how long will it take for Scotland to be independent. will be instant?

 

..."instantly" - I suddenly had visions of the people in the north of England waking up the day after the vote to see a huge wall being slung up on the horizon

 

We live in hope again

 

Yes we all do

[coldel]

Whats the odds that five years after independence we will have shouts from the hills of Scotland being run by 'Edinburgh Politics' and that they are in their own little bubble with the cheapest council tax in the areas around parliament...

 

(assuming its run from Edinburgh of course before anyone jumps in - and it is a tongue in cheek joke so details are not that necessary, bit like the Yes vote manifesto actually...)

[coldel]

For me it's about people voting Yes for all the wrong reasons. It just seems that there are lots of questions put to the people who will be taking Scotland into independence that they simply wont address. You can talk your way around it in a lead up to a vote, but come match time, you cant simply skip around it, do you trust the people in charge to come up with the practical responses?

 

The Common Weal, I appreciate its a vision and it sounds 'nice' but you asked people to read it and I had a quick look but found it to be two things, impractical and contrary to human nature (unfortunately humans are greedy) in addition to it again being written as a very biased propaganda piece. For instance the first principle is listed as:

 

A Common Weal Approach

Assume that mutual and shared working towards mutual and shared goals will produce the best society and the best economy

The London Orthodoxy Approach

Assume that competition and conflict will allow the strongest to rise and that they alone should shape society and the economy

 

Which could easily be written as:

 

A Common Weal Approach

Mutual and shared goals limit innovation and aspiration, no one should sees any chance of becoming anything greater than what is dictated to them by the ruling party who deem all you succeed in is given to those who do not

The London Orthodoxy Approach

Competition inspires people to greater things, to innovate to succeed, to drive their competitors to work harder to counter their success and drive international investment through the providence of a healthy competitive environment

 

I appreciate there are hardly any objective texts on political approaches, but this is pretty far from being a plausible one, well from my laymans view it is, be good to see an economists view on it.

 

Ooh that's deep mate, but not something I would base a constitution on.

 

That's it, I'm going to write one based on Common Weal principles actually and stick it on a website

[The G Man]

Only those voting yes will have the cooncil tax abolished, the dissenters will pay double, English treble and everyone else will be building the wall

[coldel]

Only those voting yes will have the cooncil tax abolished, the dissenters will pay double, English treble and everyone else will be building the wall

 

Yoof unemployment problem temporarily solved

[coldel]

...and I thought dissenters will be disemboweled in front of a baying crowd whilst shouting 'WESTMINSTER!!!'

[AJRFulton]

I am Scottish and own a small business trading in Scotland, Wales and England. I see no advantage at all (to me) to Scottish independence.

 

That coupled to Scotland being destined to alternate between Labour and SNP governments, makes it a big no for me.

 

Not that I get a vote anyway, as despite having lived in Scotland for 29 of my 31yrs (and intend to return in 2015/16), own a couple of flats in Scotland, own a business registered and paying tax in Scotland, and pay my own tax in Scotland.... I live in Wales as my contract requires me to.... and have no vote.

[Vik54]

I do hope those interested parties ^^ are watching Question Time from Dundee David Dimbleby has flying pigs on his tie

[coldel]

Actually had a chat the other night with a guy who has substantial interests in this (ie he speaks to cabinet ministers about energy and the like), he is Scottish also, and was very much against it and astonished by the lack of understanding of what Scotland actually own with regards to energy. Amazing the the story you hear from people who are more in the know.

[AJRFulton]

Actually had a chat the other night with a guy who has substantial interests in this (ie he speaks to cabinet ministers about energy and the like), he is Scottish also, and was very much against it and astonished by the lack of understanding of what Scotland actually own with regards to energy. Amazing the the story you hear from people who are more in the know.

 

For a start Scotland would be facing an energy crisis within it's first 15yrs, when the 2 of the 3 main power stations (Hunterston, and Longgannet) close. Torness would follow a few years later.

 

Windmills don't work brilliantly in practice (although look fantastic on paper), and Scotland has low storage capacity for when the wind isn't blowing. Even so, Scotland would need something in the region of 14x the current amount of windmills it has to replace those 3 power stations.

 

To be fair it isn't a problem exclusive to Scotland, the rest of the UK is facing an energy crisis. However, Scottish government seems content pursuing pointless vote winning policies rather than addressing the rather huge elephant in the room ie: stop plundering our energy budget subsiding the putting of windmills up and build some proper staple, reliable power stations! Coal, nuclear, oil, gas, whatever type is most financially viable... it needs done!

 

Not that I am against Renewable Energy, it has a very important role to play. However it is utter folly to base an energy policy 100% reliant on it, and it will be Salmonds rather costly legacy.

Edited January 23, 2014 by AJRFulton

[Neilp]

Actually had a chat the other night with a guy who has substantial interests in this (ie he speaks to cabinet ministers about energy and the like), he is Scottish also, and was very much against it and astonished by the lack of understanding of what Scotland actually own with regards to energy. Amazing the the story you hear from people who are more in the know.

 

My brother does this. He is a solicitor for trading gas and oil for the government. I know quite a lot about what energy we have

[docwra]

docwra

 

Thanks, but the last time I looked, we had our own legal system, we are more independent financially, as far as the Barnet formula can go and I do know that Scotland is a shoe in for membership of the EU, just as it's a racing certainty that the World Cup won't be coming back to Britain

 

Still thinking like this now youve got to come up with a new currency and economic system if you gain independence? I cant see the Euro being offered up to Scotland by the EU as things stand, and I cant see Scotland getting membership if that is the case. Salmond and Sturgeon (why are they all named after fish) will be crying into their Tennents Super tonight I reckon

[Ekona]

It would appear to have put a significant dent in the Yes camp, that's for sure.

 

Not saying that the UK would be any better off from the situation, but I'm glad that they've drawn the line in the sand over this rather than the ifs, buts, and maybes we had before.

[Vik54]

It would appear to have put a significant dent in the Yes camp, that's for sure.

 

Not saying that the UK would be any better off from the situation, but I'm glad that they've drawn the line in the sand over this rather than the ifs, buts, and maybes we had before.

 

Nope - if anything it simply will give fodder to the YES camp - "Look at Westminster making all the decisions again" - TBH - my view would also now highlight the notion that if Scotand is not part of the GBP then neither can they be expected to participate in UK debt solving

[Ekona]

I agree, that's why I don't think it's a great move for the UK as a whole.

 

Not sure how it's a positive for the Yes camp though: If you stay with the GBP then Westminster is still making the decisions for you!

[JetSet]

It would appear to have put a significant dent in the Yes camp, that's for sure.

 

Not saying that the UK would be any better off from the situation, but I'm glad that they've drawn the line in the sand over this rather than the ifs, buts, and maybes we had before.

 

Nope - if anything it simply will give fodder to the YES camp - "Look at Westminster making all the decisions again" - TBH - my view would also now highlight the notion that if Scotand is not part of the GBP then neither can they be expected to participate in UK debt solving

 

I agree entirely, the yes camp must be jumping for joy or in Salmonds case leaping . My own opinion is that if you want a divorce from the rest of The U.K then it must be complete and in any case what's wrong with the euro,? The only other country attached physically to The U.K uses it. If Scotland becomes independent then it should mean that it should be in exactly the same position as The Republic of Ireland, its own police force (with no powers in the rest of The U.K and vice versa) it's own DNA database, etc, etc. What I don't want to see is a Scotland which is still partially integrated into The U.K.

 

Pete

[Ekona]

I genuinely don't see how not having the GBP is a good thing for Scotland. They can spin it and say "Look at the big bad people in London choosing for you!", but that's turgid nonsense. A significant amount of their plans relied heavily on keeping the GBP, that the UK wouldn't be brave enough to call their bluff. Now they have, what happens? Where are the financial plans put in place for this eventuality? What currency do you go for? There were many very obvious holes in the Yes argument over finances already that counted on 'certainties' like keeping the pound, and the house of cards could well crumble now.

 

It's all very well and good chest beating and feeling superior because you're making your own decisions, but if that means you're back in the dark ages you have to ask if it's worth it?

[Flex]

I think their new currency should be fried Mars bars

[firemansim]

I like the "Bay city rollers"

[JetSet]

5 years ago, Alex Salmond was all in favor of an Independent Scotland joining the Euro, indeed I think this is still their long term aim.

 

http://www.telegraph...dependence.html

 

 

"joining the euro will be a vote winner"

 

 

Pete

Edited February 13, 2014 by JetSet

[coldel]

To be fair its no different to any politician, their views change with the wind!

 

That said, having spoken to a few people who are much better placed to know about this than most about the vote am more convinced than ever that Yes is economic suicide. I wouldn't fancy being in that unstable position right now.

[rtbiscuit]

When is the vote?