Should Scotland vote to leave the UK ?

[coldel]

I really think the whole Scottish English thing is just a bit of friendly banter, whenever I go to Glasgow I'm always made to feel welcome by everyone I meet

 

Generally it is good natured banter, sometimes it gets much more than that. I still remember a bunch of English guys I was with on safari in Kenya years back, we found a shack with a TV to watch England vs Greece. There were a couple of Scots in there as well and they cheered loudly when Greece scored and we laughed along wryly, when we equalised a Scottish girl who was in our travelling group said we shouldn't cheer because the guys behind us wanted to hit us for it. Of course the roof went off when Beckham smashed in that equalizer, they never attacked us but we got all the evil stares you can imagine. But it got to that point, that we could not cheer our own country scoring a goal in football? That's not banter, that's bordering on racism driven violence. In other words, utter bell ends.

Edited January 4, 2014 by coldel

[Neilp]

I really think the whole Scottish English thing is just a bit of friendly banter, whenever I go to Glasgow I'm always made to feel welcome by everyone I meet

 

Generally it is good natured banter, sometimes it gets much more than that. I still remember a bunch of English guys I was with on safari in Kenya years back, we found a shack with a TV to watch England vs Greece. There were a couple of Scots in there as well and they cheered loudly when Greece scored and we laughed along wryly, when we equalised a Scottish girl who was in our travelling group said we shouldn't cheer because the guys behind us wanted to hit us for it. Of course the roof went off when Beckham smashed in that equalizer, they never attacked us but we got all the evil stares you can imagine. But it got to that point, that we could not cheer our own country scoring a goal in football? That's not banter, that's bordering on racism driven violence. In other words, utter bell ends.

Its not our fault we're tougher than you southerners

[scobie140]

If we don't try it we'll never know, can't do much worse than the way it is the now

 

I am hearing this comment a lot (like martin, I live/work in Scotland for 6 months of the year) and most people cannot back up that statement with any facts.

Which (in my opinion) makes it a complete ridiculous statement to make.

Can't be any worse?! Are you kidding? What happens if you have to start paying for prescriptions, or your taxes are raised to account for shortfalls in govt. budgets, or if the new Scottish Health Service has to be paid for by Insurance, or the Oil Majors decide it would be cheaper to route North Sea oil South of the border.....

It could be much much worse than it is now.

There is no facts so we won't know unless we try. At least if we go it alone and try to better ourselves and fail its better than continuing to moan about how the set up is just now.

[WhackyWill]

Should get the Bulgarians and Romanians to re-build Hadrian's Wall ..End of problem...

[ZEUS]

I really think the whole Scottish English thing is just a bit of friendly banter, whenever I go to Glasgow I'm always made to feel welcome by everyone I meet

 

Generally it is good natured banter, sometimes it gets much more than that. I still remember a bunch of English guys I was with on safari in Kenya years back, we found a shack with a TV to watch England vs Greece. There were a couple of Scots in there as well and they cheered loudly when Greece scored and we laughed along wryly, when we equalised a Scottish girl who was in our travelling group said we shouldn't cheer because the guys behind us wanted to hit us for it. Of course the roof went off when Beckham smashed in that equalizer, they never attacked us but we got all the evil stares you can imagine. But it got to that point, that we could not cheer our own country scoring a goal in football? That's not banter, that's bordering on racism driven violence. In other words, utter bell ends.

Is that not a football thing though ? I don't know the first thing about football as to me it's the most boring game in the world but it does seem to bring out the worst in people.

[DoogyRev]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

"Who" Neil . . . educated Scot who wants independence

 

[thetranquilbass]

Am with Neil on this one, Salmond is a complete ***** with his own fame and fortune the only agenda

[martinmac]

Cant wait until he opens the new bridge he may fall off it.

[Ebized]

If the poll was changed it all goes back to zero - but should allow those who previously voted another go. If not, will have to get Admin on the case, or just start again.

 

Thanks Colin ... I think I also made a mistake by allowing everyone to see who's voted where ... can you fix this please?

 

As far as I can see everyone can opt to see the votes casted but not by whom

 

I can see who's voted where

 

Do you mean you see more than this (also shows the % in horizontal bars that do not copy and paste)?

• I am Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a BAD idea (3 votes [15.79%] - View)
   
   
  
• I am Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a GOOD idea (2 votes [10.53%] - View)
   
   
  
• I am Scottish I don't really care about it (0 votes [0.00%])
   
   
  
• I am NOT Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a BAD idea (9 votes [47.37%] - View)
   
   
  
• I am NOT Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a GOOD idea (1 votes [5.26%] - View)
   
   
  
• I am NOT Scottish I don't really care about it (4 votes [21.05%] - View)
  

[ddcboyle]

Its going to be a close one, but id put my zed on it, we won't go independent.

 

However, its a good way of showing the rest of the UK, by UK I mean England, that Scotland is more important than they believed initially.

 

Scotland could run on its own, no problem. We have the exports available to make more money than England in a sense of per person or per piece of land, excluding general income London brings being the business capital. We have our own army, and would be taking a certain % of the RAF and Navy aircraft and boats since Scotland has been paying its taxes into the military. Export wise, we will find our own trade site, since London has been the main export location and import. However, Scotlands capital connects to the sea and is only 400 driving miles from London, thus, still as close to Europe (400 miles being very little in exportation). Jobs. Well we would have the same amount of jobs, with the possibility of more in the Scottish government and Armed Forces.

 

Those thinking about Scottish independence and saying Scotland could not cope on their own are far from the truth. Scotland would never be a super power,with the little amount of people we have living in Scotland is nearly half of the population of London. We would simply be a small country.

 

But my own opinion on it, even though Scotland can work on its own. Whats the point in splitting? We gain nothing. Either side.

 

The only reasons I can come up with why Scottish people want to go independent is:

1) Don't like being called English....

¬ It was 400+ year ago, get over it.

 

2) Not enough money gets spent on Scotland from the taxes, I.e on roads etc

¬ Watch you have free water, free prescriptions and free university when were on our own, England chooses roads, we chose those.

 

3) Scotand does whatever England wants

¬ Partly, however Scotland has different laws to England, which Scotland gets to chose via their government. Certain "tests" such as the no smoking in public areas ban that came to Scotland first, did so because it would aggravate less of a population trying it on a small country, rather than a large city in a country where the rest are not affected.

 

4) Showing the world how strong Scotland is

¬ History shows how strong Scotland is, through invention, wars, holding our country against an empire. If your proud of Scotland, you don't need independence to be prouder. We have our flag, our government, our laws, our land, we just group together to make sure the Island is strategically protected. The rest of the joint commitments are part of this.

 

Obviously, im Scottish against independence

[ATTAK Z]

If I click on 'View' I can see who has voted

 

Graham was the last to vote for 'I am NOT Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a BAD idea (9 votes [47.37%] - View)'

[Ebized]

If I click on 'View' I can see who has voted

 

Graham was the last to vote for 'I am NOT Scottish and I think Scotland leaving the UK is a BAD idea (9 votes [47.37%] - View)'

 

Have to pass this to Admin as I can't see a way of changing from public to private

[Dblock]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

bit catty?

 

Alot of MSP's are highly educated and feel this would be better for Scotland. I think they want to make it like Canada.

[Neilp]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

bit catty?

 

Alot of MSP's are highly educated and feel this would be better for Scotland. I think they want to make it like Canada.

 

Not at all. Maybe you know some but in my circle of friends, aquiantances and family, not one wants independence. Nothing catty about it. If you think so then please feel free to explain why.

[JetSet]

I don't like nationalism whether it be Welsh, Scottish, Irish, British or whatever it too often leads to trouble. I agree though that Scotland could survive as an independent country, no problem, but like other small European countries for example Norway, Sweden, Austria, Finland, etc it'll become very expensive to live in within a few years. Taxes will go up for sure if the left leaning Scot Nationalists remain in power. To those who say let's give it a try well there's no chance of Scotland rejoining The U.K if and when things fall apart for a long long time. I also dread to think of the cost of setting up an independent country, you will need a new DVLA, Army, Navy, Air Force Customs and Excise, just about everything that's shared with The U.K at the moment including setting up embassies all over the world. As I understand it Scotland may have to use the Euro and all new countries joining the E.U have to become part of the free movement zone. Alex Salmond has glossed over most of The E.U issues thinking that he has the whip hand over the rest of Europe and that he'll get the terms he wants....dream on Alex.

 

 

Pete

[JetSet]

^^ same here

 

however - its alsmost as stupid as when they gave us the Welsh Assembly

 

I was always against the Welsh Assembly, living up in Flintshire I get the impression that the Assembly doesn't really like spending money up here and consider us as foreigners (over 60% of Flintshire's population were born outside Wales)

 

Pete

[ioneabee]

and your point is Pete :lol:

[Dblock]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

bit catty?

 

Alot of MSP's are highly educated and feel this would be better for Scotland. I think they want to make it like Canada.

 

Not at all. Maybe you know some but in my circle of friends, aquiantances and family, not one wants independence. Nothing catty about it. If you think so then please feel free to explain why.

 

Its just I said I'm for it and then you said all educated... maybe I read to much into it.

 

Scotland needs to go independant. england and Scotland are too different. Infact look at London. London pretty much runs itself and in some ways it is great for england and in some ways its a drain on england. London is so different from the rest of england it needs to handle its business etc differently.

 

If Scotland could go independant we could do our own thing, build on our good points. Our economy could be dynamic. Low tax WOULD attract business here without a doubt. Look at California, governator won't raise taxes? Why he knows it will scare people off. More business and rich people means the money stays in Scotland one with more jobs and 2 then they could live and spend their money here without dodging the crazy tax at the moment,

 

Scottish Universities are world renowned. We get alot of paying foreign students to study here as its prestigious and good education. Like Canada we could keep a hold of the good ones. So people over time would be wealthier, smarter and safer etc. Scottish law is way ahead of the archaic english law. Scotland banned smoking first and the laws in many many areas make so much sense.

 

All IMO, I like that video bulletmagnet posted in a thread with 2 guys saying do whatever you like

[WhackyWill]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

bit catty?

 

Alot of MSP's are highly educated and feel this would be better for Scotland. I think they want to make it like Canada.

 

Not at all. Maybe you know some but in my circle of friends, aquiantances and family, not one wants independence. Nothing catty about it. If you think so then please feel free to explain why.

 

Its just I said I'm for it and then you said all educated... maybe I read to much into it.

 

Scotland needs to go independant. england and Scotland are too different. Infact look at London. London pretty much runs itself and in some ways it is great for england and in some ways its a drain on england. London is so different from the rest of england it needs to handle its business etc differently.

 

If Scotland could go independant we could do our own thing, build on our good points. Our economy could be dynamic. Low tax WOULD attract business here without a doubt. Look at California, governator won't raise taxes? Why he knows it will scare people off. More business and rich people means the money stays in Scotland one with more jobs and 2 then they could live and spend their money here without dodging the crazy tax at the moment,

 

Scottish Universities are world renowned. We get alot of paying foreign students to study here as its prestigious and good education. Like Canada we could keep a hold of the good ones. So people over time would be wealthier, smarter and safer etc. Scottish law is way ahead of the archaic english law. Scotland banned smoking first and the laws in many many areas make so much sense.

 

All IMO, I like that video bulletmagnet posted in a thread with 2 guys saying do whatever you like

 

Why do you hate London so much Dblock...

[coldel]

I really think the whole Scottish English thing is just a bit of friendly banter, whenever I go to Glasgow I'm always made to feel welcome by everyone I meet

 

Generally it is good natured banter, sometimes it gets much more than that. I still remember a bunch of English guys I was with on safari in Kenya years back, we found a shack with a TV to watch England vs Greece. There were a couple of Scots in there as well and they cheered loudly when Greece scored and we laughed along wryly, when we equalised a Scottish girl who was in our travelling group said we shouldn't cheer because the guys behind us wanted to hit us for it. Of course the roof went off when Beckham smashed in that equalizer, they never attacked us but we got all the evil stares you can imagine. But it got to that point, that we could not cheer our own country scoring a goal in football? That's not banter, that's bordering on racism driven violence. In other words, utter bell ends.

Its not our fault we're tougher than you southerners

 

Having seen photos of you on here Neil, I reckon you are tougher than all us southerners! But these guys certainly weren't, just some scrawny racists and were properly getting the hump and mouthing off and come the moment they bottled it

 

Seriously, if Scotland wants to 'give it a go' because everyone reads some trashy papers and believes all the hype, then go for it. But it's not simply a case of just wandering back in if it doesn't work out. If it doesn't work out it is much tougher times ahead, for a long time, I wonder if the voting public are fully aware of what they really are voting for?

[Dblock]

I don't know any educated scot which wants independence.

 

bit catty?

 

Alot of MSP's are highly educated and feel this would be better for Scotland. I think they want to make it like Canada.

 

Not at all. Maybe you know some but in my circle of friends, aquiantances and family, not one wants independence. Nothing catty about it. If you think so then please feel free to explain why.

 

Its just I said I'm for it and then you said all educated... maybe I read to much into it.

 

Scotland needs to go independant. england and Scotland are too different. Infact look at London. London pretty much runs itself and in some ways it is great for england and in some ways its a drain on england. London is so different from the rest of england it needs to handle its business etc differently.

 

If Scotland could go independant we could do our own thing, build on our good points. Our economy could be dynamic. Low tax WOULD attract business here without a doubt. Look at California, governator won't raise taxes? Why he knows it will scare people off. More business and rich people means the money stays in Scotland one with more jobs and 2 then they could live and spend their money here without dodging the crazy tax at the moment,

 

Scottish Universities are world renowned. We get alot of paying foreign students to study here as its prestigious and good education. Like Canada we could keep a hold of the good ones. So people over time would be wealthier, smarter and safer etc. Scottish law is way ahead of the archaic english law. Scotland banned smoking first and the laws in many many areas make so much sense.

 

All IMO, I like that video bulletmagnet posted in a thread with 2 guys saying do whatever you like

 

Why do you hate London so much Dblock...

 

Where are you seeing hate for london? It's the biggest city in england by far and can suck the life out of the rest of the country in some ways.

[sipar69]

I live on London. Pretty much all of the Scots I've met through work, socially or when I was younger at uni have been some of the nicest people. I know it's impossible to say for certain, but my feeling is that it would by very bad for Scotland to break away.

[Ekona]

Alex Salmond has no idea what he's talking about. Whether or not it would be a good thing for Scotland is pure guesswork as no-one can predict the future, however the risks about currency and the future of Scotland in the EU are very real and the really scary thing is that he has zero idea about what will happen. Read the Yes website and be truly astounded as to just how much groping in the dark he's doing.

 

One of the biggest trumpets blown by the Yes side is that Scotland is rich with oil, so they'll be okay. That's very true, but they will also have to share a massive part of the UK's debt and I can promise you that there will be a deal struck where the UK will right off Scotland's share in return for rights to the oil and other goodies like the fishies in the sea. The UK will remain unaffected, but suddenly Scotland will have much less bargaining power with their oil than they are saying they will.

 

 

Despite all that, I don't know whether it would be best for Scotland to go it alone or not. Long term it may well be, or it could be a complete disaster, but certainly chest-beating and mathematical guesswork doesn't seem like a good basis to strike out on your own to me. I'd rather you guys up north stayed with us, but tbh it really won't affect us south of the border much regardless: The risk is all yours.

[Cragus]

Despite all that, I don't know whether it would be best for Scotland to go it alone or not. Long term it may well be, or it could be a complete disaster, but certainly chest-beating and mathematical guesswork doesn't seem like a good basis to strike out on your own to me. I'd rather you guys up north stayed with us, but tbh it really won't affect us south of the border much regardless: The risk is all yours.

 

I am not very politically minded but would place myself as a 'no vote' just now, predominately because I don't believe Alex Salmond has it in him to lead Scottish confidently into independence. I also agree with you that willy waving and guesswork are not are good basis for deciding the fate of Scotland. However I disagree that there will be no repurcussions South of the border and that the risk lies purely in Scottish hands. Nobody can determine exactly what these will be as too much is determined by negotiations that will occur IF Scotland chooses independence.

 

As of January 2013 the UK's debt was in the region of £988.7 billion. Scotland's GDP (excluding oil and gas) is only marginally below the UK average at 98.7% so if we make things simple and divide the debt evenly by population, given that Scotland has a population of 5.1 million (compared to the UK's 62.2 million), Scotland walks away with approximately £81 billion debt. This leaves the rest of the UK with £907.7 billion. Using different assumptions, Scotland's share of the debt would be far lower. This is a worse case scenario.

 

While £81 billion might sound like a lot of debt for a relatively small country, with Scotland retaining the oil and gas reserves it becomes far more manageable. Can't recall more recent figures but in 2008 I am certain oil and gas revenue was in excess of 12 billion. Let's not forget fishing, whisky and tourism as particularly strong trades for Scotland too. Getting rid of unwanted and expensive nuclear programmes etc will also save money. Will the rest of the UK continue to absorb these costs?

 

I don't doubt that Scotland has the potential to go alone if careful consideration is given to it's implementation and I do also believe there could be serious implications for the rest of the UK. Do I have faith in Salmond to execute the process - no. I think it would be a terrible shame to break up the UK and all this nonsense about hating English or actively supporting teams they play against in any sport is drivel. I can't say I have witnessed this - I have seen friendly ribbing and joking but that's all part of what makes our union so great.

 

....and to summarise FREEEDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM (i jest before you start lol).

Edited January 5, 2014 by Cragus

[JetSet]

 

 

Can't recall more recent figures but in 2008 I am certain oil and gas revenue was in excess of 12 billion.

 

 

10 Billion is the latest figure I can come up with but this includes revenue from the North Sea oil/gas fields off the English coast and presumably the gas field off the North Wales coast, so about 9 Billion is Scottish. Norway has revenues of around 21 Billion. Both of these will obviously decline but Norway has built up a huge pot of money (about 500 Billion).

 

 

Pete