Winter tyres vs Summer tyres

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

So what's the difference between summer and winter tyres? It's just rubber isn't it???

 

Cold Weather tyres not only improve safety, they also shorten braking distances and increase performance. Remember, Summer tyres are not designed to be used in cold weather. At cool temperatures, Summer tyres are less effective on all types of road surfaces. Cold Weather tyres are made of a special rubber compound suited to these low temperatures and unlike Summer tyres, they do not harden in the cold, which increases their performance and grip.

 

My experience...

So I have two sets. One set of rays alloys with Michelin pilot super sports (mpss) and one set of touring alloys with Michelin pilot alpin pa3 tyres.

 

The winters have done About 6000 miles. Fronts are down to 7mm from 8mm. Rears still at 8mm.

 

So I should get a few years use out of them. I guessing four years for the fronts.

 

I bought mpss for the fronts in may 2012 and they are currently on the legal limit after having done about 13500 miles.

 

The winters definitely provide more grip during the colder weather and I had no trouble in the snow. Yes you can also be fine with summer tyres if you drive carefully but winters are definitely safer.

 

One bit of info I found was that apparently if braking on snow from 50kmph to a halt, it'll take 48m on average summer tyres with an average car. Its 24m with cold weather tyres.

[BulletMagnet]

Well, if people over here start to realise that winter tyres are not only for when there is snow on the ground.....

[KyleR]

Hmmm, I believe the threshold for winters to come more effective is around 7 degrees, right? So how long would you have to drive on a set of MPSS for example, if the temperature was 2-3 to get them above that 7 degree barrier that they become more effective than the winters?

 

Obviously from the get go the winters will be better, especially if there is a dusting of snow or possibly some ice. But, if it's just a regular boring cold UK day, maybe even wet, won't the MPSS be up to temperature pretty sharpish and therefore safer and grippier than the winters?

 

I'm not having a go about winters here by the way, this just literally popped into my head and got me thinking. I also know there have been many many tests and studies on winters vs summers and there was recently a good video posted too, but, are these tests done on cold tyres?

[Watshot]

It's more likely that the 7 degree threshold refers to ambient temperature rather than tyre temperature at any given state.

[Dblock]

Hmmm, I believe the threshold for winters to come more effective is around 7 degrees, right? So how long would you have to drive on a set of MPSS for example, if the temperature was 2-3 to get them above that 7 degree barrier that they become more effective than the winters?

 

Obviously from the get go the winters will be better, especially if there is a dusting of snow or possibly some ice. But, if it's just a regular boring cold UK day, maybe even wet, won't the MPSS be up to temperature pretty sharpish and therefore safer and grippier than the winters?

 

I'm not having a go about winters here by the way, this just literally popped into my head and got me thinking. I also know there have been many many tests and studies on winters vs summers and there was recently a good video posted too, but, are these tests done on cold tyres?

 

 

I can't remember who It was Neil and SMD or maybe Ekona but they where saying you can get heat by rubbing 2 ice cubes together which is true. I may not fully understand this but imagine you have a row of ice cubes 1 mile long. All chilled at -10c lets say. Lets say air temperature is between -10 and -5c. If you rub 2 ice together they will melt but if you run 1 ice cube over the mile of seperate ice cubes, won't the heat be sucked out of the 1 ice cube (on top) into the row therefore keeping the tyres cold aka the top ice cube cold? I know this would only really happen at very cold temperatures and down saaaf your probably ok but in Scotland I think they are worth their weight in gold tbh.

[Dblock]

So what's the difference between summer and winter tyres? It's just rubber isn't it???

 

Cold Weather tyres not only improve safety, they also shorten braking distances and increase performance. Remember, Summer tyres are not designed to be used in cold weather. At cool temperatures, Summer tyres are less effective on all types of road surfaces. Cold Weather tyres are made of a special rubber compound suited to these low temperatures and unlike Summer tyres, they do not harden in the cold, which increases their performance and grip.

 

My experience...

So I have two sets. One set of rays alloys with Michelin pilot super sports (mpss) and one set of touring alloys with Michelin pilot alpin pa3 tyres.

 

The winters have done About 6000 miles. Fronts are down to 7mm from 8mm. Rears still at 8mm.

 

So I should get a few years use out of them. I guessing four years for the fronts.

 

I bought mpss for the fronts in may 2012 and they are currently on the legal limit after having done about 13500 miles.

 

The winters definitely provide more grip during the colder weather and I had no trouble in the snow. Yes you can also be fine with summer tyres if you drive carefully but winters are definitely safer.

 

One bit of info I found was that apparently if braking on snow from 50kmph to a halt, it'll take 48m on average summer tyres with an average car. Its 24m with cold weather tyres.

 

Also remember snow grip is very low after 4mm. Wet weather grip will start falling off at about the same too.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

From cold, irrespective of what temperature it is around you, it takes roughly two miles for tyres to heat up to an improved/effective level.

 

So on a cold day it'd take two miles for the mpss to warm up to make use of its improved grip. The alpins would take the same two miles but they'd still be safer from the get go. If its under 7°c outside air temp then the mpss would never have as much grip as the alpins. No matter how much or hard you drive it.

[BulletMagnet]

Tyres may warm up sure, I'll give you that, but the ground will still be cold

[Dynamic Turtle]

Bit of a luxury down sarf? Haven't seen much lower than 5deg thus far...

 

[RS8055]

I've got winters for my car as we get more snow than you do in the UK... reason being is that it is a legal requirement that motorists driving in Luxembourg have winter tyres equipped when there is snow/ice on the ground. If caught without, 70€ fine. As a result, we never have any issues with roads getting blocked when there is heavy snow. Would be good thing to catch on in UK IMO.

[Ekona]

Winter tyres are not safer than summer tyres. The driver is what makes a car safe, not tyres or 4WD or anything else.

 

Winter compounds do offer more grip in cold temps, no doubt about it. They're also horrendous and can double your stopping distance in temps outside of their working range, which is just as bad as summer tyres when in the cold. It's all about common sense and driving to the conditions, which includes what kind of rubber you have on your wheels.

 

 

At 6c I would put a pound to a penny on the MPSS having much more grip than the Alpins. Hell, I'd make the same case at 3c, on dry/moist roads.

[ChrisS]

Winter tyres are not safer than summer tyres.

 

Big statement Dan, so hundreds of Governments and people around the world have got it wrong !

 

Is that the same as a T shirt is not colder than a jumper. :p

[cs2000]

I change to winters whenever the temp drops to below 7c for a few days, this year that was only 2 weeks ago, last year it was mid October and I change out of them whenever it goes above for a few days.

 

In the warm (10c and upwards) the winters are nasty, back end tries to get away taking roundabouts at very sensible speeds, and even in rain tbh they feel less stable but there is less rubber in contact with the road due to the larger gaps between tread blocks, but when driving over slush and especially snow the winters are amazing.

 

I agree with Dan partially however it is partly down to the driver, you cant go honing around on winters in the snow and expect to be fine, but last year on my RE040's I couldn't move in the snow. I was using 0% throttle and moving away softly with the clutch only and still spinning the rears. After trying to get out of my car park for 5-6 mins I slid back into my space and got a lift from someone else.

Edited December 19, 2013 by cs2000

[Darren-B]

I've just been over in Germany for a few days where although it is not a legal requirement to have winter tyres when it's cold & snowy, but you do however face an on the spot fine if you get stuck & your running summer tyres. I noticed that most cars were running winters, me however opted for a new set of MPSS's which gave me an un riveled advantage when it came to the motorways . But I also found some snow along the way, The MPSS's faired up pretty well until I chickened out & turned round

 

I hitched a ride with some young ladies one evening & was more than impressed with the traction on a heavily frosted road from the winter tyres fitted to the car. The same road was quite a challenge in the 370 the following morning

 

So I'd say if your going to drive in the cold weather, winter tyres are definitely a good option.

[spursmaddave]

I hitched a ride with some young ladies one evening & was more than impressed with the traction

 

Fnaar fnaar (giggle)

 

 

Sent from the golf club...

[Ekona]

Winter tyres are not safer than summer tyres.

Big statement Dan, so hundreds of Governments and people around the world have got it wrong !

Safer is a relative term. Shorter stopping distance in the cold and damp at 3c? Yeah, sure. More grip on cold compacted snow/ice? No chance, you cannae break the laws of physics Jim. Put an average driver who knows nothing about tyres in a Ford Focus with summers on and an Elise with winters on and see which one he bins first. Are winter tyres safer than summers on a dry day at 7c? Nope. There's so many different circumstances and variables that it's impossible to say that winters are simply better than summers from October to March. It implies a sense of safety where one might not actually exist.

 

In certain conditions, winter tyres offer certain advantages over summer tyres, especially this time of year. But 100% safer? Sorry, I don't feel that's a correct statement to make.

[ChrisS]

Winter tyres are not safer than summer tyres.

Big statement Dan, so hundreds of Governments and people around the world have got it wrong !

More grip on cold compacted snow/ice? No chance, you cannae break the laws of physics Jim.

Go and get a brick and slide it on an icy pond.

Then get another brick and place it on 400 grit sand paper and slide it on the icy pond.

Then get another brick and place it on 60 grit sand paper and slide it on the icy pond.

 

If they all slide to the same point at the same speed. Then I'll believe your version of physics.

[Ekona]

Tyres aren't exactly made of sandpaper though, are they? Flawed analogy.

 

I'm sure winter tyres would stop better than summer tyres on the same sheet of ice, but if one takes 200m to stop and one takes 210m then it's two halves of naff all. Winter tyres won't make you invicible on stuff like that, is the point I'm trying to make. Same as 4WD doesn't automatically mean it's safe to do 70mph on slush when other sensible drivers are doing 50mph.

[BulletMagnet]

Oi, tyre nazi, pipe down. If people wanna run winters then fine, if you don't like it fine, no need to get all ghetto science on us.

 

[Ekona]

 

I didn't say there was anything wrong with running them. I've only limited experience with them myself, as I prefer to stick to summers throughout the year, I was only pointing out that winters =/= safe and winters =/= better in all conditions during the winter period. If people want to run them then that's great, I appreciate that some needs them more than others (especially the northern folk).

[BulletMagnet]

My own experience is that I have run RE040, Falken452 and Nankang SV-2 in the winter since my Zed ownership and personally have found driving with the winters was best.

Of course I agree with "Driving to conditions" approach and yes you be a utter mong to believe you can slap winters on and expect summer tyre performance in summer conditions in the winter.

RE040 were the worst in the winter btw

[Dblock]

Tyres aren't exactly made of sandpaper though, are they? Flawed analogy.

 

I'm sure winter tyres would stop better than summer tyres on the same sheet of ice, but if one takes 200m to stop and one takes 210m then it's two halves of naff all. Winter tyres won't make you invicible on stuff like that, is the point I'm trying to make. Same as 4WD doesn't automatically mean it's safe to do 70mph on slush when other sensible drivers are doing 50mph.

 

No but run your hand over mpss smooth. Run them over winters. The sipes and other things give then bite. They are quite abrasive. Some are made with coconut shells for extra friction.

 

Try them against the mpss like some of us. Then you can see if your "theory" is right. Since we have the experience we can say fact.

[ChrisS]

Tyres aren't exactly made of sandpaper though, are they? Flawed analogy.

 

No but they are different compounds. So could possible have different traction? But I admit I do not have a degree in rubber compounds.

 

Or are winter tyres made of the same compound as normal/summer tyres?

 

If they are, then all the manufacturers in the world and all the governments in the world have hoodwinked 'all/some/a few/not some' the drivers in the world.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

How did ekona become the tyre know all???

[spursmaddave]

How did ekona become the tyre know all???

 

Not sure but I think the title could be up for grabs soon