andygore Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I had a trackday booked for my zed last friday and came across a strange issue with my brembo calipers after the day. Basically I did a track day not too long ago and had the following setup on the brakes: Brembo calipers Hel Braided Lines RBF 600 brake fluid black diamond disk DS2500's The day went great pads bit extremely well and i didnt have any issues with fade or overheating. The only issue was the pads were at the end of their life and needed replacing. A set of yellow stuff pads came up for sale on the forum so I picked these up expecting them to be similar to the DS2500's, and to be fair they were not too bad. They bit well and at first did not seem to fade at all. I did a couple of laps and had no issues, I came into the pits to smoke pouring from the front calipers for a good 10-15 minutes. After they cooled down I checked the braking and it seem ok. The rest of the day went great I was blasting round the track without issue. Then towards the end of the day I started getting huge brake fade I came in and noticed that my calipers had changed colour and the disks were glowing red. This put an end to my day as I had to drive home and didnt want to risk damaging the brakes. If you take a look at the pictures below you can see a picture of the caliper when I fitted the disk to one taken on Sunday morning (2 days after the track day). The caliper is now Brown with black writing as apposed to gold with red writing. Before Track Day: After Track Day: Has anyone seen this before? I have not yet took off the caliper to inspect the pistons and seals but im hoping it has not caused any damage in there! I think from now on I will be sticking to DS2500's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen@Clark Motorsport Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The EBC Yellow stuff although not a good pad for normal fast road driving is no use for serious track use, I think you've worked this out for yourself though Let me know if you need some DS2500's, we always have them in stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Yellow stuffs are fine on track. I use them with nos with no issues stopping on Knockhill for 10 laps at a time before a cool down. That looks like the brakes have overheated, this would have happened regardless of pads. Ds250s aren't great to be honest. I don't know why they're so highly thought of on here. Prefer ebc blue stuff to them. I use both yellows and blues with performance friction rotors and have no issues. Were you doing cool down laps? Another member on here had similar issues and it's because the brake runouts weren't correct and pads were making contact with the disc constantly generating too much heat. Edited November 25, 2013 by Neilp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamN Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 This concerns me as I'm considering doing a couple of track days in the Zed. I think I have standard pads and EBC drilled/grooved discs so will do some research into pad replacement. On other notes, quite like the new colour of the calipers hopefully they won't be damaged at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slosh Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Even the letters have changed colour! As already asked, were you doing cool down laps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Sorry to hear about your braking overheat But those Brembos are a lovely colour now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 From reading the original post, I think there were no cool down laps. So PEBWAS (as opposed to PEBKAC ) Problem Exists Between Wheel And Seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Its essential to do cooling down laps. Normally 5 hot laps then 2 cooling down laps, and you wont have any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 :scare: Wait so those pictures are serious? I thought you just showed two pictures of different colored calibers not, them changing because of the heat....or am I being stupid :surrender: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 It's not unknown for calliper paint to change colour under extreme heat cycles. Happens on various ceramc set ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Those calipers are knackered. They change colour on purpose so you know you've overheated them: See Greekman's ones for further proof. Well, they may not be completely shot, but I'd be stripping them down and replacing the seals and fluid at the very least. I'd also be changing pads definitely, and examining the condition of the discs closely. To do that takes a serious amount of heat, and considering how important the brakes are then you really don't want to take a chance. Possibly a sticky caliper could have caused this (although on both sides is unlikely), and I'm assuming the discs are the right way round since you did a track day previously on them without issue. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygore Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) Yellow stuffs are fine on track. I use them with nos with no issues stopping on Knockhill for 10 laps at a time before a cool down. That looks like the brakes have overheated, this would have happened regardless of pads. Ds250s aren't great to be honest. I don't know why they're so highly thought of on here. Prefer ebc blue stuff to them. I use both yellows and blues with performance friction rotors and have no issues. Were you doing cool down laps? Another member on here had similar issues and it's because the brake runouts weren't correct and pads were making contact with the disc constantly generating too much heat. I was using DS2500 on a previous TD same setup same track even very similar laptimes. I dont think ill use yellow stuff again, aside from the overheating they faded after just 3 laps and the ferodos did not all day! This concerns me as I'm considering doing a couple of track days in the Zed. I think I have standard pads and EBC drilled/grooved discs so will do some research into pad replacement. On other notes, quite like the new colour of the calipers hopefully they won't be damaged at all! If you like them you interested in swapping From reading the original post, I think there were no cool down laps. So PEBWAS (as opposed to PEBKAC ) Problem Exists Between Wheel And Seat I did both warm up and warm down laps, Oulton Park is a bit circuit (over 2 miles) I was doing a lap warm up 3-4 hot laps then a lap warm down. :scare: Wait so those pictures are serious? I thought you just showed two pictures of different colored calibers not, them changing because of the heat....or am I being stupid :surrender: Yup same caliper the only difference was 1 1/4 tanks of fuel and 127 miles of track time! Those calipers are knackered. They change colour on purpose so you know you've overheated them: See Greekman's ones for further proof. Well, they may not be completely shot, but I'd be stripping them down and replacing the seals and fluid at the very least. I'd also be changing pads definitely, and examining the condition of the discs closely. To do that takes a serious amount of heat, and considering how important the brakes are then you really don't want to take a chance. Possibly a sticky caliper could have caused this (although on both sides is unlikely), and I'm assuming the discs are the right way round since you did a track day previously on them without issue. I have a look at the wheel after then change, jacked the car up and spun the wheel, it didnt seem to be sticking or binding at all! I am going to take the caliper apart when I have a minute because I suspect that the seals have gone. That will be a fun job re-building them. Do any sellers on the forum sell caliper re-build kits? Edited November 26, 2013 by andygore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I would have a word with Clarke Motorsports, I'd be amazed if they didn't carry something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen@Clark Motorsport Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I would have a word with Clarke Motorsports, I'd be amazed if they didn't carry something like that We can supply these, drop me a PM if I can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs2000 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 that's incredible, I honest to god thought they were 2 different calipers, even the lettering changes colour!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 that's incredible, I honest to god thought they were 2 different calipers, even the lettering changes colour!! Inb4 Trolled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The fact they have overheated suggests to me the runouts aren't correct on the discs. Are you getting any vibration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygore Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 The fact they have overheated suggests to me the runouts aren't correct on the discs. Are you getting any vibration? Nope no vibration, the drive home was down a motorway and I didnt have any issues with this drive, no vibration or fade. The disks don't seem to be warped at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The fact they have overheated suggests to me the runouts aren't correct on the discs. Are you getting any vibration? Nope no vibration, the drive home was down a motorway and I didnt have any issues with this drive, no vibration or fade. The disks don't seem to be warped at all. Great advert for Brembo Brakes that they still work after that thrashing..! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik54 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Those calipers are knackered. They change colour on purpose so you know you've overheated them: See Greekman's ones for further proof. Well, they may not be completely shot, but I'd be stripping them down and replacing the seals and fluid at the very least. I'd also be changing pads definitely, and examining the condition of the discs closely. To do that takes a serious amount of heat, and considering how important the brakes are then you really don't want to take a chance. Possibly a sticky caliper could have caused this (although on both sides is unlikely), and I'm assuming the discs are the right way round since you did a track day previously on them without issue. But the Greek's were a lovely Burgundy IIRC it was just a case of seals being replaced ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 That caliper colour change is pretty amazing, given all of us on here something to aim for!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygore Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have castle combe book early next year, I will try and get them to change pink that day!! Took the car out last night everything seems fine, no warping no loss of breaking. I cant see without taking them off but there is no leaking of fluid. I think at the weekend I will take off the calipers and look at changing the seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 That caliper colour change is pretty amazing, given all of us on here something to aim for!!! I'm amazed mine haven't changed colour on the North Circular most mornings. :scare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteman35 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 My face when i first read this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I have castle combe book early next year, I will try and get them to change pink that day!! Took the car out last night everything seems fine, no warping no loss of breaking. I cant see without taking them off but there is no leaking of fluid. I think at the weekend I will take off the calipers and look at changing the seals. I would definitely look at getting the seals done mate. At least give them a good inspection Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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