pdg32 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hi, Noticed yesterday in the wet that the nokians I swapped to on the weekend were not particularly great under duress. Floored it in second a few times and had the back end squirming and fishtailing like crazy - the vredestein summers definitely seemed grippier in the same conditions so any ideas? I was testing them at not particularly high speeds on accelerating after just turning into a new road and didn't expect the fighting for grip....amusing but anyone had similar experiences? Temp was around 11 or 12 degrees - that anything to do with it? Conversely I had the same from the summer ones around 7-8 or so. I'll perhaps try the same thing when it's colder and wet on the nokians and see if they're better than at double digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen@Clark Motorsport Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Most winter tyres are designed to work below 6 degrees so that could be something to do with it. Once it gets properly cold i'm sure you'll feel the benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamN Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Sounds like fun I'd fit winter tyres to the front of mine but not the rear I don't think, far too sensible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph 7 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I always liked this video as a good explanation on the ideal temps Remember that this is based on all season vs winter. Summer tyres would be considerably worse 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If they where winter tyres then it was too hot to be using them like that. Winter tyres won't stop your car ending upside down if you drive like a fool when cold though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Many moons ago when I first got my Eunos, it had winter tyres on (september-ish) and in the hot sun they were great . . really sticky and tons of grip . I had a few surprises in the wet with the higher temperature . . I chewed through a few pairs of pants I can tell you I did keep them on for the following winter . . and in the lower temps again very good Ergo . . winter tyres are good in the cold crappy weather, but go real steady when its mild, not that cold and wet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Hi, Noticed yesterday in the wet that the nokians I swapped to on the weekend were not particularly great under duress. Floored it in second a few times and had the back end squirming and fishtailing like crazy - the vredestein summers definitely seemed grippier in the same conditions so any ideas? I was testing them at not particularly high speeds on accelerating after just turning into a new road and didn't expect the fighting for grip....amusing but anyone had similar experiences? Temp was around 11 or 12 degrees - that anything to do with it? Conversely I had the same from the summer ones around 7-8 or so. I'll perhaps try the same thing when it's colder and wet on the nokians and see if they're better than at double digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs2000 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Agreed, when wet they are a little edgey, not too bad though but there's less rubber contact with the road compared to a summer tyre as the drain channels are so much wider. In the snow however they come into their own. After driving to a garage on RE050's and coming out on some winter tyres (forgot the brand) the difference was night and day. they're useable in the summer, but not advisable as they degrade very very quickly. I went on the Pistonheads fish and chip cruise with them on, but car squirmed in corners taken at speed as the tread blocks on the tyres moved around too much. And as said before, winters are for average temps of 7c or below, its too warm still for them most of the time, mine are going on in about 2 weeks time if the temperature drop continues however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 and wet on the nokians and see if they're better than at double digits. I'm not sure p1ssing on them will make any difference but I'm no expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RE Leather Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I would not do that with any new tyre let alone in the wet? I still have the scars of my last stupid outing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Had the same experience tonight - actually I'd say much worse! Going across some out in the sticks back roads, and the temperature according to the car was 6 degrees. Had massive amounts of wheel spin on trying to lay down the power and the traction control working all the time, even fourth gear at one point! Is it a case of the winter tyres simply not cut out for full throttle acceleration, pretty confused now...? This was on dry roads as far as I could tell. Edited November 13, 2013 by pdg32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 pdg32, now don't take this the wrong way, but you do understand the purpose of winter tyres, yeah? They are not designed for "full throttle acceleration", they are for steady progress in the colder months. When the roads are icy, one does not go and slap some winter tyres on and expect to drive as if it was the height of summer with Michelin PilotSports on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If you could get heat into them, 888s will give more grip in the winter than winter tyres. Winter tyres are at their best when temps drop below zero, or when driving through torrential rain. Otherwise, summer tyres and common sense will usually be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Bullet magnet - I think you missed my point. I was merely querying whether this was normal or not, as the summer tyres didn't respond like that at a similar temperature. I haven't had winters on before hence the seeking of advice. Dan - thanks for that; makes sense. Edited November 13, 2013 by pdg32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) If you could get heat into them, 888s will give more grip in the winter than winter tyres. Winter tyres are at their best when temps drop below zero, or when driving through torrential rain. Otherwise, summer tyres and common sense will usually be better. No. Just no. The compound of winter tyres is softer for the colder weather therefore giving better grip. Full throttle acceleration you will get better grip but the big winter block move around making the back feel odd. Also the tyres are made to grip and bite into snow and slippy surfaces. Something summer tyres aren't made for. I can 100% guarantee my winter tyres will be better than summer tyres in the snow. They aren't just for cold and wet but the m&s means mud and SNOW which they are made for too. Edited November 13, 2013 by Dblock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yes. Just yes. Personal experience. They're not recommended in winter of course, and tbh it's not really a great idea, but somehow I miraculously managed to survive two winters when I ran them on the VXR (admittedly on 048s), another on the Zed, and a massive blat around the snow-covered IoM in an MR2. It's all about getting heat into them, and if you can do that then they're great: Well worth a handful of seconds on a damp cold winter track, easy. I don't disagree that for some people winter tyres are the best option, but for most people summer tyres will be fine and a smaller handful will be able to stay on semi-slicks without too much bother. As always with these things, it's very driver dependant. Of course winter tyres will be better in the snow than summer tyres, but then we're back to the question of "Should you really be driving?" and "Is the rest of the vehicle suitable for purpose?". An FR car is not ideal for driving when you have a lot of snow (it's the worst choice), so that should be taken into consideration before setting off regardless of tyre choice. Winter tyres do not a driving god make. Much like 4x4 is not invincible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Breaking News... If it's wet / cold / slippery and you floor it, then you lose traction! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I don't disagree that for some people winter tyres are the best option, but for most people summer tyres will be fine and a smaller handful will be able to stay on semi-slicks without too much bother. As always with these things, it's very driver dependant. Indeed, my Zed is my daily driver, so my choice to use winters is so I have a reliable predictable car to go to work with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 im going one step further this year and getting studded tyres for the scooby may not even have to break them out but always nice to have that option...bring on worst winter since forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Is anyone else more worried about some tit (probably in one of those 4x4s where breaking distance is not impacted by wintertime conditions ) slamming in to them, rather than they're own driving style/winter tyre performance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Is anyone else more worried about some tit (probably in one of those 4x4s where breaking distance is not impacted by wintertime conditions ) slamming in to them, rather than they're own driving style/winter tyre performance? Absolutely. We got caught/stopped in the snow in a Caterham at the Goodwood breakfast years ago on the steep hill away from Goodwood. The pathetic driving of the oncoming downhill traffic was bothering me. We decided to slide the Caterham sideways into a farm drive. Not a moment too soon.....as someone in a Skoda Fabia going much too fast (i.e.. 20mph) slid across both carriageways to where we would have been. We stayed where we were until a snow plough turned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph 7 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yes. Just yes. Personal experience. They're not recommended in winter of course, and tbh it's not really a great idea, but somehow I miraculously managed to survive two winters when I ran them on the VXR (admittedly on 048s), another on the Zed, and a massive blat around the snow-covered IoM in an MR2. It's all about getting heat into them, and if you can do that then they're great: Well worth a handful of seconds on a damp cold winter track, easy. I don't disagree that for some people winter tyres are the best option, but for most people summer tyres will be fine and a smaller handful will be able to stay on semi-slicks without too much bother. As always with these things, it's very driver dependant. Of course winter tyres will be better in the snow than summer tyres, but then we're back to the question of "Should you really be driving?" and "Is the rest of the vehicle suitable for purpose?". An FR car is not ideal for driving when you have a lot of snow (it's the worst choice), so that should be taken into consideration before setting off regardless of tyre choice. Winter tyres do not a driving god make. Much like 4x4 is not invincible. It isn't just for the snow that it the reason for me selecting winter rubber for both my Zed and my wife's Passat. It is stopping distances / avoiding behaviour traction in case of emergency. While I agree that most people will be fine it is the some people who aren't that I'm worried about. If an incident occurs in front of my wife, I want her to be in the best possible position to react and avoid anything, be that sharply turning or braking to a stop. I want that for her more than myself. When you consider that there isn't really a great cost in running winters as you don't have wear on your summers for 4-5 months so your tyre usage/costs stay pretty similar as you look at it over the years that you own the car I don't see why people dont. I picked up a set of steels for the Passat for £25 and the JDM alloys from keyser for a very reasonable price. The wheels have residual value so you never really lose out on them when you come to sell. What is the big catch for running winters....I don't see it The suitability of the car for the conditions seems irrelevent to me in the same way as when the met office state only drive if necessary. If I don't get to work I don't get paid....therefore it is necessary. Are you going to right off every FR car like BMW/Merc that is on the road as unsuitable? The suitablitity of the tyre makes the car suitable for the conditions. Without suitable tyres I can't even get out of my street which is why I previously used snow socks and even with snow socks on the car, the zed was composed to drive. This has been an issue for every rear wheel drive car I have owned. It would be much simpler if it was law to run winters during a period like they do in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I think it's just the initial cost that probably stops people doing, I agree longer term not additional costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yes. Just yes. Personal experience. They're not recommended in winter of course, and tbh it's not really a great idea, but somehow I miraculously managed to survive two winters when I ran them on the VXR (admittedly on 048s), another on the Zed, and a massive blat around the snow-covered IoM in an MR2. It's all about getting heat into them, and if you can do that then they're great: Well worth a handful of seconds on a damp cold winter track, easy. I don't disagree that for some people winter tyres are the best option, but for most people summer tyres will be fine and a smaller handful will be able to stay on semi-slicks without too much bother. As always with these things, it's very driver dependant. Of course winter tyres will be better in the snow than summer tyres, but then we're back to the question of "Should you really be driving?" and "Is the rest of the vehicle suitable for purpose?". An FR car is not ideal for driving when you have a lot of snow (it's the worst choice), so that should be taken into consideration before setting off regardless of tyre choice. Winter tyres do not a driving god make. Much like 4x4 is not invincible. So says there is no snow. Its -5c. The ground is probably even colder than that how do you get heat into the tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxrob Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 All this talk of winter tyres Pah, never used them on my 2.00L capri in the 80's, proper rear wheel squirming those days Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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