Unemployed must work for their dole

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

What do you think?

 

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/unemployed-must-work-for-their-dole-2

 

I think it could work well, but depends on how they decide to enforce it and what the criteria is. Not everyone should have to do this, but many should IMHO.

[Ekona]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24327470

 

Slightly better link.

 

Common bloody sense, really. No worky = no benefits.

[Stutopia]

Non-compliance = benefits suspended = where do I get money from without working as I'm totally unemployable? = a bit of light robbing and low level crime = spell in court then prison for free and an ankle tag to monitor = actual cost to taxpayer > than paying the benefit in the first place

 

There has been and always will be an unemployable percent of society who refuse to engage, keeping them out of everyone's way on the bare minimum of cost is as good as you can hope for. Dole is cheaper to us all than prison and associated costs of going in and coming out.

 

The only way to really save on the terminally unemployable is summary execution outside jobcentres, which I imagine the Tories will wheel out as a policy just before the next election so they can shift another few pence off the top rate of tax.

[glrnet]

[choptop]

There are those who want to work and those that don't. Whatever you do that will never change. I think there should be time limits in place before you must work for your benefit, giving people time to find a job before the big stick is imposed.

Edited September 30, 2013 by choptop

[Fodder]

Non-compliance = benefits suspended = where do I get money from without working as I'm totally unemployable? = a bit of light robbing and low level crime = spell in court then prison for free and an ankle tag to monitor = actual cost to taxpayer > than paying the benefit in the first place

 

There has been and always will be an unemployable percent of society who refuse to engage, keeping them out of everyone's way on the bare minimum of cost is as good as you can hope for. Dole is cheaper to us all than prison and associated costs of going in and coming out.

 

The only way to really save on the terminally unemployable is summary execution outside jobcentres, which I imagine the Tories will wheel out as a policy just before the next election so they can shift another few pence off the top rate of tax.

I get what you're saying but I bet a high % those terminally unemployable are committing crime anyway to feed their sky subscription and smoking habits....

 

Btw I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush here but those that manipulate the system to stay out of work will have their fingers in many pies.

 

Those that really need help from the state seem to struggle as they don't know the system like the low life

[Ricey]

Whilst I agree with it in essence I think there needs to be more of a carrot to psychologically get doleites out of the mindset of 'I've been getting money for nowt, now I've got to graft for the same money'. Maybe load it a little bit for those that do work - lets face litter picking and cleaning graffiti etc are going to be crap jobs that actually do a decent service to the community.

 

Dole (JSA I assume this relates to?) is a pittance - it tends to be the people who are milking other benefits who are happy on benefits.

 

I don't know many people who are 'happy' to live off £260 odd quid a month to be honest.

 

Thankfully by making myself unemployed I won't be able to find out........and I'd rather it stayed that way!

[Ricey]

• In his speech to the party conference in Manchester, the chancellor is expected to say that while the government will not "abandon" the long-term unemployed, no-one will be able to get something for nothing.
  

 

This sort of statement does annoy me as well you know..............if a hard working tax payer claims JSA because they are made unemployed they are not getting 'something for nothing'. They're getting something for the 10's of thousands of pounds they've paid in taxes over the years.

 

A scrotter who has paid nothing into the system but is 'terminally unemployed' (often confused with 'bone idle' but happy to slag off a Polish bloke who'll bust his arse working 12 hours a day that said scrotter wont) IS getting something for nothing.

[jell36]

I like the idea of it but think that the people who do the crappy work should get paid minimum wage so then they are getting more than they would be on benefits and are equal to the rest of us. A 39 hour a week job on minimum wage still doesn't give you a comfortable life style so there is still encouragement for them to get a better job that pays more.

[Jetpilot]

Sounds to me like there are still get out clauses as ever.

 

To me its very simple, i have no idea why people are handed cash every week not to work. Cash to buy fags, booze etc etc Imho they should be given the very basics to survive, that being food and a roof over their heads. So payment should be given by means of a pre loaded debit style card that is redeemable for food in supermarkets and FOOD only, no cigarettes or alcohol.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

Isn't it £260 a fortnight?

[Jetpilot]

No idea, obviously it will depend how many 1000's of children they have from different fathers or vice versa

 

Dont get me wrong, there are some very deserving people out there who need help and want to work and there are others where there are now apparently 3 generations of some families that have never worked.

 

There are glaring errors with social security though and they need addressing, however, they all have a right to vote, so any prospective government needs their vote so are not going to alienate them with radical reform.

 

Which also leads to another point, if you havent worked for "x" amount of years you also loose your right to vote, why should the non contributors have any say in who and how are taxes are spent.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jetpilot

[Ricey]

Isn't it £260 a fortnight?

 

76 quid a week I think?

[Sempiternal]

all i say is if this actually gets enforced il throw a BBQ u all invited

 

disclaimer incase this actually goes through parliament,, my limit is 10 burgers

[Ricey]

Sounds to me like there are still get out clauses as ever.

 

To me its very simple, i have no idea why people are handed cash every week not to work. Cash to buy fags, booze etc etc Imho they should be given the very basics to survive, that being food and a roof over their heads. So payment should be given by means of a pre loaded debit style card that is redeemable for food in supermarkets and FOOD only, no cigarettes or alcohol.

 

Please understand that I'm no great advocate of paying people to sit around doing nothing but I think your talking about a very specific group of people and not just the general public.

 

A person on JSA gets way way less than is needed to 'survive'. A person creaming benefits after they've got a gateway benefit (usually when quite seriously ill or laden with a pack of sprogs) is potentially getting enough to 'survive'......and I use that word loosely.

 

Looking at it on the flips side the whole thing is broken though. Take my mate..........I swear to God this is true.

 

He was made redundant this year and got a redundo pay out of about 5k. He has at LEAST 50k savings in the bank and he drives a 21k Audi TTS. He's signing on at the moment (quite rightly as he's paid into the system all of his working life).

 

He doesn't need the money by any stretch of the imagination but he's entitled to it so he claims.

 

The people we get most 'annoyed' about tend not to be on JSA - I think you'll find they are the people who are off on long term sick (but we either don't understand or acknowledge there sickness - perhaps because on occasion its self inflicted), claiming for chavvies they can't afford. The benefits you can get are astonishing.

 

This is a list of all benefits available from a .gov website.

 

Attendance Allowance Back to Work Bonus Bereavement Payment Child Benefit Child's Special Allowance Child Tax Credit Cold Weather Payments, see also Winter Fuel payment Council Tax Benefit Constant Attendance Allowance Disability Living Allowance Income related Employment & Support Allowance Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance Guardian's Allowance Housing Benefit Incapacity Benefit Income Support Industrial Injuries Benefit Invalidity Benefit PAyments out of the Social Fund In-work emergency discretion fund payment In-work emergency fund payment Maternity Allowance Payments out of the Social Fund Pensioner's Christmas Bonus State Pension credit Reduced Earnings Allowance Retirement Allowance Return to work credit, including the self-emp credit Severe Disablement Allowance War Widow's pension Winter Fuel payment Working Tax Credit.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

all i say is if this actually gets enforced il throw a BBQ u all invited

 

disclaimer incase this actually goes through parliament,, my limit is 10 burgers

 

Shotgun 3-4 of them!

[Flex]

I think it's great as long as it doesn't impact and small business (i.e. free labour vs what another small company would charge for a similar service).

[aidan]

Non-compliance = benefits suspended = where do I get money from without working as I'm totally unemployable? = a bit of light robbing and low level crime = spell in court then prison for free and an ankle tag to monitor = actual cost to taxpayer > than paying the benefit in the first place

 

There has been and always will be an unemployable percent of society who refuse to engage, keeping them out of everyone's way on the bare minimum of cost is as good as you can hope for. Dole is cheaper to us all than prison and associated costs of going in and coming out.

 

The only way to really save on the terminally unemployable is summary execution outside jobcentres, which I imagine the Tories will wheel out as a policy just before the next election so they can shift another few pence off the top rate of tax.

 

summary execution outside jobcentres??? A bit harsh...but these are harsh times. Worth a try!!

[wizurd]

It's only for those out of work longer than 2 years. I thought it was gonna be a much shorter time than that so happy they are talking really long term unemployed. However that's only 200 000 people. That's not many people. Also if your gonna force people to then do some sort of work you Have to top up their Jsa to min wage for what they do. Otherwise it is cheap labour and leads to a stupid situation where they are then under cutting the normally paid work force. Also, and I'll need to find the article on it, but read somewhere that when they tall about the benefits bill the actual Jsa is only a smallish percentage of the overall bill. A lot of 'benefits' are paid to those in work like tax credits I think and stuff like that. Do wish they'd stop tarring all people on benefits the same though. It really is only a small percentage that are working the system.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[docwra]

Ricey isnt far off the money (EDIT: and Wizurd is bang on) - this is a non-problem that the media have whipped up into being something we all think is affecting us. The actual amount of "benefit scroungers" is tiny and has next to no effect on the public purse, but "going after them" makes for good headlines so thats all we hear about.

 

Pensioners commit considerably more benefit fraud than any other part of society, why isnt the government going after them? Why dont we hear about the dozens of people who are dying every week after their disability benefit is being suspended while its "investigated"? What about the fact that theres not actually enough jobs to go round, what are we going to do with the 2 million odd that physically cant find work because theres no jobs they are mobile/qualified/intelligent enough/presentable enough to do?

 

Making people work for less than minimum wage is against the law, so how can the government justify making people work for £70 per a week, less their expenses getting to work? Its bullshit, another policy designed to become a headline in the Daily Mail that sadly 95% of the population will lap up, rather than actually think about.

Edited September 30, 2013 by docwra

[aidan]

Small percentage that are really taking the ****.

 

Invalidity - mother not working, (but still managing to get around), four kids. SO needs a big house. Only prob is there aren't many in our area. SO goverment put them up in a five bed private home....at 1700 quid a month rent !!!! And only two kids actually stay with her...go figure. And don't get me started on the husband. Yes he works....but should have some some balls to stop sponging off the goverment.

And did I mention they both have brand new 13 plates cars totaling the best part of 60K.

But what to do.....they play the system, and obviously win.

 

So yes, I do feel sorry for the many who cant get a job but really want one......but summary execution (well maybe not execution - as I said that is a bit harsh) for spongers is a must!!!!

[aidan]

Ricey isnt far off the money (EDIT: and Wizurd is bang on) - this is a non-problem that the media have whipped up into being something we all think is affecting us. The actual amount of "benefit scroungers" is tiny and has next to no effect on the public purse, but "going after them" makes for good headlines so thats all we hear about.

 

Pensioners commit considerably more benefit fraud than any other part of society, why isnt the government going after them? Why dont we hear about the dozens of people who are dying every week after their disability benefit is being suspended while its "investigated"? What about the fact that theres not actually enough jobs to go round, what are we going to do with the 2 million odd that physically cant find work because theres no jobs they are mobile/qualified/intelligent enough/presentable enough to do?

 

Making people work for less than minimum wage is against the law, so how can the government justify making people work for £70 per a week, less their expenses getting to work? Its bullshit, another policy designed to become a headline in the Daily Mail that sadly 95% of the population will lap up, rather than actually think about.

 

But surely bringing in more people isn't the answer to filling jobs that out doleys dont want.......and I have no beef with immigrants who do work and do the jobs that others deem below them.

[chubbster]

Hooray - at last someone with an understanding of the situation - Well said, Docwra - you're absolutely right and you put it better than I ever could.

[Ekona]

Really, I'd rather see child support money pulled than this. If you can't afford to have kids, then don't have them in the first place.

[docwra]

Ricey isnt far off the money (EDIT: and Wizurd is bang on) - this is a non-problem that the media have whipped up into being something we all think is affecting us. The actual amount of "benefit scroungers" is tiny and has next to no effect on the public purse, but "going after them" makes for good headlines so thats all we hear about.

 

Pensioners commit considerably more benefit fraud than any other part of society, why isnt the government going after them? Why dont we hear about the dozens of people who are dying every week after their disability benefit is being suspended while its "investigated"? What about the fact that theres not actually enough jobs to go round, what are we going to do with the 2 million odd that physically cant find work because theres no jobs they are mobile/qualified/intelligent enough/presentable enough to do?

 

Making people work for less than minimum wage is against the law, so how can the government justify making people work for £70 per a week, less their expenses getting to work? Its bullshit, another policy designed to become a headline in the Daily Mail that sadly 95% of the population will lap up, rather than actually think about.

 

But surely bringing in more people isn't the answer to filling jobs that out doleys dont want.......and I have no beef with immigrants who do work and do the jobs that others deem below them.

 

Sorry, the last time we "brought immigrants in" was in the 1950's ........ as part of the EU we cant stop EU people coming in, and anyone from outside the EU has to prove a case for asylum or already have a job lined up. If they lose it, they leave, whats wrong with that? Without being funny, if you re losing jobs to immigrants in your home country, speaking your own language then you need to try a bit harder anyway

 

There is certainly a section of the unemployed that wont take jobs as they feel its "beneath" them but I bet you there are 20 times more people who would do anything to get back into work but cant due to not being suitable for whatever is available, thats another DM myth for you though. A lot of the failings of the whole country are down to this kind of paper selling propaganda, people read the (generally sensationalist) first few lines of an article and then adopt that as their attitude without actually looking into the facts.

 

My politics are pretty right of centre so I should be having a field day with this, but I cant ignore actual fact and evidence that shows this is all just a charade by the government to try and win middle class votes, sadly the opposition dont have the balls to stand up to it though. Makes you wonder how much other @*!# we get fed and just accept as true .........

Edited September 30, 2013 by docwra