ewanbcfc Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 A good afternoon to you all. I'm considering a set of Bilstein B6 for the zed to add a bit more body control and reduce some of the bounce and float I get on country roads. Anyone have any experience of these? I rarely go on track, so am looking at these as a 'fast road' upgrade... Any advice greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanbcfc Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hehe, I thought this might be the response. Google came up with next to nothing on the topic! No matter, I'm happy to be the guinea pig on this one. Once I get it done, I'll pop back on with some feedback. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 How much are they roughly? Most people upgrade to coilivers. Have you checked the us forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanbcfc Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yeh, still not much noise about them on the US forums either. Roundabout £500. I was looking at coilovers for a bit, but I'm not yet sold on them. I want to maintain the standard ride height and spring rate, just looking for a little more damping performance. And I not desperate to get adjustables again, I could never stop tinkering with them on my old car! These seem like they could be the best fit for my requirements, but then the worry is they won't be different enough to the standard dampers. Only one to find out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hi Ewan, I was in exactly the same thinking as you and came to same idea! I fitted the B6 dampers with standard springs to my car, which had done under 50k at the time so the originals probably weren't too tired and the difference is huge. I did fit them at the same time as Eibach anti roll bars and few bushes so my car changed quite a bit so couldn't say in handling terms how much of an improvement they will offer on their own but they will no doubt improve it but from just damping terms and ride quality alone the B6's made a notable difference, they're slightly firmer over stock but dont crash over bumps and potholes they actually soke them up better and theres none of the judder through the chassis after hitting bumps at speed either as I found with the stock items. They are really top quality too with all the clips n pick ups for the brake hoses etc too. I've done few thousand miles on these, couple of track days and a trip to the Nurburgring so I think I've given them a fairly thorough test for you..........You wont be disappointed. As mentioned above most go for coilovers but in my opinion and it is only my opinion that the cheaper £1000-£1500 coilovers are not good enough at actually being suspension they're just too hard n crashy. The B6 with std springs or if you wanna go lower the B8 with Eibach springs and to better that you need to spend some money and go to something like Ohlins DFV (which I have owned on an Evo and is absolutely fantastic and worth every penny!!) would n hopefully will be the route I'd go. Hope that helps and would be interesting to know if you agree when you've got them fitted Some pics 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 If you don't want coilovers and just want to upgrade your shocks then I can supply KYB shocks for around £325 for all four, or I can do the BC coilovers at £695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanbcfc Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Butcher, thanks a lot for that reply. Exactly what I wanted to hear! I'll be looking at bushes next if I'm still not quite happy with the car. ARB's are at the back of my mind, but I think I can resist that for a bit longer... One of the things I love about the zed is the ride. I went 6 months without driving it and had forgotten how compliant the ride is. Like you say, I don't want to compromise that with the coilovers at the lower end of the market. Bilsteins seems like a decent compromise, hoping for a bit more control on A and B roads without destroying the ride. I'll feed back my feelings once I've got them fitted. I've been wanting to try some decent quality dampers like Bilstein on a car for a while now and this seems the perfect opportunity, the standard damping just feels a little too soft at speed. I also like the idea of non-adjustables. I assume the chap from Bilstein has a better idea of setting up dampers than I do. Or at least I hope so! Tarmac, cheers for the offer, but I've got my heart set on the Billies now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MITZ@CougarStore Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'd forgotten that Butcher had them fitted, they work hand in hand with the Eibach ARBs we supplied him with too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanbcfc Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Just the dampers for now, thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Somewhat unrelated but all VXs come with 'Billies' as standard, for a car aimed almost solely at handling there has to be something in that decision by Lotus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MITZ@CougarStore Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Just the dampers for now, thanks! On their way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The problem I have with shocks only is that the dampening needs to be adjusted depending on the ride height, so if your lowered on tein or eibach springs, the dampening would need to be a different level compared to stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Somewhat unrelated but all VXs come with 'Billies' as standard, for a car aimed almost solely at handling there has to be something in that decision by Vauxhall... FTFY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Somewhat unrelated but all VXs come with 'Billies' as standard, for a car aimed almost solely at handling there has to be something in that decision by Lotus... True and Evo MR's come on Bilstein/Eibach combo.......Its a great setup for fast road use The problem I have with shocks only is that the dampening needs to be adjusted depending on the ride height, so if your lowered on tein or eibach springs, the dampening would need to be a different level compared to stock. There's no problem though as Bilstein have the option of B6 damper for stock springs/ride height and shorter B8 for use with lowered springs. Its amazes me how many people do it the other way round and run lowered springs on std shocks! Must be an awful setup Butcher, thanks a lot for that reply. Exactly what I wanted to hear! I'll be looking at bushes next if I'm still not quite happy with the car. ARB's are at the back of my mind, but I think I can resist that for a bit longer.. No probs, nice to know someone shares my way of thinking. I was just the same in wanting to improve the car with out taking away it being a really good, capable and comfortable road car. You can fit the Eibach ARB's anytime..........they do work very well though and would recommend them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Somewhat unrelated but all VXs come with 'Billies' as standard, for a car aimed almost solely at handling there has to be something in that decision by Vauxhall... FTFY. oh those of such little knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanbcfc Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 I'll have a think about ARBs. I don't mind a bit of body roll, as long as it's controlled. Improves agility in direction changes though, I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosssco Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'll have a think about ARBs. I don't mind a bit of body roll, as long as it's controlled. Improves agility in direction changes though, I suppose? So, what is you're opinion on these after fitting? Thinking of Eibach ARB's with Bilstein dampers on standard springs - ultimate fast road / daily compliant car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Also very interested to hear how you get on with these. I considered BC coilovers but was quoted rather a lot to have them fitted so addressed the body roll issue first. I had Whiteline ARBs fitted about 1000 miles ago (using polybushed OEM links) and they've improved turn-in at the expense of rear-end traction. It can get floaty at the back if you're not careful and the car handles a bit like an old 911 now. It means that I can get tail-happy thrills at lower speeds with TCS on, but the corollary is that confidence at taking higher speed bends is somewhat diminished. Also please let us know if you manages to source them at a competitive price :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosssco Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Cheapest online appears to be Camskill - ~£510 + delivery Can't see how you'd get them any cheaper, and great value for a monotube damper from the likes of Bilstein. http://www.camskill.co.uk/m14b0s1749p0/Performance_Suspension_Kits_NISSAN_-_350Z_-_02_on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Hmmm, I just think for the money, you're better off just getting coillys? You don't have to go lower, you can adjust the dampers to your preference etc. The same work is going to be involved changing the Dampers as if you were to install coillys. Maybe an extra half hour is needed tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosssco Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I have no experience of coilovers on the 350Z, but on other cars I've had, cheaper adjustable height / damping units are compromised with regards to on road performance. Adjustable ride height is useless for most as they set it to a height and leave it (as it matched to geometry settings), so only of use if you're installing them to acheive a desired look, at the expense of performance. Going too low will affect the roll centre and muck up the basic suspension geometry in the original suspension design, which isn't ideal for a road car. Adjustable damping can be fun to muck around with, but it means the spring rate and damping rate will never be properly matched outwith a few incremental settings, and when you end up finding a setting that suits, you leave it, thinking you've done a great job in setting you're car up (been there). Add in the fact the adjustment mechanism adds complexity, and can reduce the reliablity of some dampers, it's just not worth it for me. I'm not going to prejudge various brands of coilovers, as no doubt many owners are happy with their choice and the product, but my experince is that you can't beat a good quality matched spring / damper combo (the B6 is based around the standard rate spring AFAIK) for rounded performance on the road.. I read recently that Nissan and Bilstein developed a fixed rate damper for the GT-S concept from back in ~2006. I wonder if this is effectively the production version of that experience (this or the B8)... I went through a similar epxerience with my VX220, and eventually found that even going for more expensive adjustable units (Nitron NTR) didn't give the rounded capablity on the road as some of the available Lotus fixed dampers that were a combo of Bilstein and Eibach.. It's personnal choice I suppose, and not being able to compare one against the other means its only opinion, but I do think that unless you're looking to lower the car, and like adjusting things / have to adjust for different road or track settings (but how many actually tweak ride height?), then a fixed rate, good quality damper offers the best in terms of road performance, cost, fit and forget servicablity. For me it does anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfella Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Chuck as much money at Bilstein/Eibach parts as you can and replace rims with wider ones with proper offsets instead of using spacers. By far the best money I've spent on the Z. No bounce or float, instant grip after hits, dips, rises and superb over standard, but you'll need Whiteline droplinks to stop creaking. If you run 19" x 10.5" wide rims on the rear with a 275/35/19 tyre with proper offset for flush fitment, then rear negative camber will need to be set above 1 degree (on the eibach adjustable camber arms) to avoid tyres rubbing the arches on big hits. I had mine rolled by archenemy so I could run 1 degree instead of 1.5 for better contact patch, and run 2 degrees at the front (my choice, not a guide), but it's a high price to pay for half a degree less camber at the rear. Since naturally aspirated cars don't tune up to big numbers like turbos do, the money is better spent on improving the already quite good brakes and handling. The torque curve is already nice and flat on Z's, so it's a bit misguided to go chasing big numbers like dyno queens do. I think of it in terms of mathematics - individual numbers mean very little (outside of the pub), its the curve and the area under the curve that tell the real story (on the road). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just thought I'd say that I've decided to purchase the B6's (matched with Tein S springs), for my set up, which will be 'fast road' with barely any track days. From looking at other forums and the official FAQ, it seems like those springs with the B6's will be fine, as I'm not looking to go any lower than the Tein's and I can't be bothered with the set-up of coilovers. Only one guy seemed to complain about 'Eibach Pro' progressive springs and the Bilsteins but changed them for some other springs and was happy. I'm also doing a fair few of the bushings, as well as some other bits in time, perhaps I'll start a thread as I'm sure it may be of some use? (from Bilstein FAQ) In regards to the B6's specifically: 'Down to which lowering level can I go with BILSTEIN B6 sports shock absorbers (not shortened) in conjunction with shorter springs?' Down to 30mm. That is what is typically offered for new vehicles straight from the factory. Any lower and a shock absorber with a shortened stroke has to be fitted, so that the spring tension - which ensures the required distance between the car body and the wheel - is maintained, whatever the driving situation. Otherwise the spring may slip out of its fitting and the vehicle will abruptly go out of control. In regards to the B8's specifically: 'Down to which lowering level can the BILSTEIN B8 Sprint shock absorber be fitted?' Down to 50mm. The ideal depth for driving dynamics is however between 30mm and 40mm; any lower and the driving performance becomes poorer again, unless a major adjustment of the entire vehicle is carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Im running B12's on my 135i and they are very good, particularly over rough or broken surfaces ........... but they aint coilovers at the end of the day. Sure, 10 years ago unless you were spending heavy money you were likely to get a crashy ride but the game has moved on since then - Ive said many times that the HSD's Ive got on my 350 are up with anything Ive ever used and I think offer better ride than standard, never mind the handling. My 135 is fairly stable, but its not the 350 by a long shot, theres a lot more movement and pitching which can sometimes prove a little worrying when pressing on, the Zed was bulletproof all the time. As Ive said many times on here, unless you own a parts company or are a race driver, chances are you might have only tried a couple of sets of coilovers on a couple of different cars, thats not really a base to be making judgements like this from. For me, when the HSD's (and BC's and probably some others) are as good as they are, are compliant over the bumps and make the car much stiffer and more communicative its a no brainer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, kind of as you've said yourself there, without experiencing the car going from one kit to another, it's not really possible to say if X is 'better' than Y. And almost pointless testing one persons car as some parts will be worn/not the same, of course approximately similar to a degree. I certainly don't doubt the build quality these days of various coilovers, and ultimately if the B6's aren't quite what I'm personally looking for, I'll have to pop them up for sale and try something else. (Zeta R are the initial choice I'd go to) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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