Terence Bower Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) I bought my 07 313 two years ago,I have to admit at being a little shocked when the trader told me how much the tax cost,that I had requested him to renew! Expecting it to be around 250/270 mark. However,as I am a regular commuter over to Nurburg for my work,I am pleasantly surprised at the economy of the car after reading that quite a few owners only get around 350ish miles to a tank full of 80ltrs. Door to door Nurburg ,to Ely Cambs is 757 Kilometers ,I fill up at the fuel station opposite the ring and generally dont need to refill later the next day.Now that comes out at around 10k per litre,which I think is pretty respectable considering that the car cruises at around 85mph there and back on the m ways/autobahns. So,the question is "is it false economy buying the lesser powered engined car,just to save on Road Fund"? I'll wait with baited breath. Edited July 14, 2013 by Terence Bower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nap Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 i have only had my 350z a few months,JDM 2003.i fiend economy very good.went to japfest2 last week at over 200 mile run and the other day a nice quick 120 mile blast and found that i only used £25 of fuel on a 120 mile run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-monster Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I was pondering this the other day - should I trade in my 313 for the cheaper road tax version, maybe even get a cabriolet... I came to the conclusion that if I did swap out to the older car I'd have a slightly less powerful engine, more miles on it (OK, not necessarily) and I'd be buying a car which I would not know the history of, may have been driven harder than mine (which is ex dealership agreement with fixed mileage and servicing with two previous owners). I came to the conclusion that although it's double the road tax its better a devil you know (albeit with more power) then going for a different option purely because of road fund and not necessarily knowing what you're getting into. But also, from a selling perspective, the 313 model, and the GT4 model are probably the most sought after longer term, therefore making a slightly better residual value. Just my 2p - very "man-maths" but I just LOVE my car to bits and if money isn't much of a problem then it's totally worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsexr Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I dont think the road tax is an issue until the day you have to pay it......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 In the big scheme of things, the extra £220 or so doesn't make a difference. Coupla tanks of fuel over the year. I'm glad I went for the 313! I was pondering the 276 for just that reason, tax but then realised its gonna cost a lot to run (depending on how you use it) anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Some interesting comments-I was fully expecting to get slated!LoL. Z monster,interesting theory on reselling,been trying to sell mine for a couple of weeks now,BUT,not really sure if thats the right thing to do. What to replace it with,has to be rear wheel drive,decent power and so on. Points to an M3 really but as the track test proved the Z to have better handling/generally nicer car to drive [yes I drive M3s on a regular basis] not too sure fuel would be so nicely used as my time in the BMW is on-track so couldn't really comment! Major plus point as well is the comparative rarity compared to the BMW.Now starting to think that maybe I should keep it. Certainly would not have the lesser powered Z.Any comparison on fuel figures for the 276bhp cars? Edited July 14, 2013 by Terence Bower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Fuel economy on the 276 isn't bad, I don't talk in Euro L/100KM but on long jaunts like the one described in the OP I can see almost 35mph. Cruise Control at 55-60mph returns almost 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-monster Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 if you hypermile I was seeing 37.6 MPG at an average speed of 50 (50 to 70mph on a clear motorway, some use of slipstreams, light throttle, looking way ahead, no more than half a tank of fuel onboard) Just returned from a long road trip: Cardiff to Derby, to Gaydon to Bicester to Gloucester to Cardiff: 380miles on the clock, 27.6mpg, fuel light came on as I entered Cardiff with 34 miles remaining. full tank = £80 +/-£5 (4.75p per mile) I think tyres make a massive difference, just changed to Kumho KU39 all round - probably seen a decent 10% increase in economy. Not sure if Nitrogen in tyres helps, but seems to be less noisey. Flush the fuel system with some Shell V-Power from time to time (Massive debate on that but seems to make a difference to me) Z monster,interesting theory on reselling,been trying to sell mine for a couple of weeks now,BUT,not really sure if thats the right thing to do. What to replace it with,has to be rear wheel drive,decent power and so on. Points to an M3 really but as the track test proved the Z to have better handling/generally nicer car to drive [yes I drive M3s on a regular basis] not too sure fuel would be so nicely used as my time in the BMW is on-track so couldn't really comment! Major plus point as well is the comparative rarity compared to the BMW.Now starting to think that maybe I should keep it. The only reason I didnt sell mine is because I cant think of any other car I would have! I do like the M3 but I'm not sure if I would want to be looped into that stereotype (sorry!) I do however look the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, but I hear they break easily + they're expensive. Only other options would be a 911 or Caterham or Honda S2000. but for now, the Zed has it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonPG Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 As a side note, another in Ely? Bloody hell there's loads of us Got 34 mpg Ely>Lemans>Ely this year, a few years ago I squeezed 37.5 out of my 330ci, bearing in mind both cars were also fully loaded too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 if you hypermile I was seeing 37.6 MPG at an average speed of 50 (50 to 70mph on a clear motorway, some use of slipstreams, light throttle, looking way ahead, no more than half a tank of fuel onboard) Just returned from a long road trip: Cardiff to Derby, to Gaydon to Bicester to Gloucester to Cardiff: 380miles on the clock, 27.6mpg, fuel light came on as I entered Cardiff with 34 miles remaining. full tank = £80 +/-£5 (4.75p per mile) I think tyres make a massive difference, just changed to Kumho KU39 all round - probably seen a decent 10% increase in economy. Not sure if Nitrogen in tyres helps, but seems to be less noisey. Flush the fuel system with some Shell V-Power from time to time (Massive debate on that but seems to make a difference to me) Z monster,interesting theory on reselling,been trying to sell mine for a couple of weeks now,BUT,not really sure if thats the right thing to do. What to replace it with,has to be rear wheel drive,decent power and so on. Points to an M3 really but as the track test proved the Z to have better handling/generally nicer car to drive [yes I drive M3s on a regular basis] not too sure fuel would be so nicely used as my time in the BMW is on-track so couldn't really comment! Major plus point as well is the comparative rarity compared to the BMW.Now starting to think that maybe I should keep it. The only reason I didnt sell mine is because I cant think of any other car I would have! I do like the M3 but I'm not sure if I would want to be looped into that stereotype (sorry!) I do however look the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, but I hear they break easily + they're expensive. Only other options would be a 911 or Caterham or Honda S2000. but for now, the Zed has it! Quite agree,mine's staying as well! Off to the Ring on Saturday,Spa Monday, then looking for property in the Nurburg area till following Saturday. Possibly wont take too much notice of consumption,but then again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 As a side note, another in Ely? Bloody hell there's loads of us Got 34 mpg Ely>Lemans>Ely this year, a few years ago I squeezed 37.5 out of my 330ci, bearing in mind both cars were also fully loaded too. Only bought mine because they used to be only one other,owned by a young woman in Tescos. Now there are more of us than M3s! [the car no one really want to own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Well,that week turned into two,SO glad I decided against selling it.Got to sort the clutch though,thinking in terms of a solid lightweight flywheel/fast road clutch now. Anyone using this set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 The flywheel I can understand but why would you want to uprate the clutch?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 The flywheel I can understand but why would you want to uprate the clutch?? Why shouldn't I,seems like a good idea. Any reason why it shouldn't be upgraded,I ask out of ignorance concerning the Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddcboyle Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Road tax is an issue for me because I never plan or save. I spend all of my cash within a week or being paid. So having to pay nearly double the road tax would kill my wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 new model = 30 bhp more but also weighs more and has less torque + points include nicer interior embelishes a slightly different front bumper and a bonnet bulge, twin intake instead of single old model = half the road fund licence, weighs less, more torque but 30 bhp down on the 308 bhp HR engine difference between the 2 the newer model is more refined and smoother, the older car has alot more raw feeling to the engine; dfference between all 3 versions on the track = slim side of feck all, all 3 would cross within half a cars length of each other. only real difference is the slightly nicer interior and extra bragging rights that yours has just over 300 bhp where the others have just under 300bhp. there are more tuning options and after market parts for the older DE than there are for the HR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 BHP=MPH. Torque= Acceleration. So does this mean the 313 is the better car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 new model = 30 bhp more but also weighs more and has less torque + points include nicer interior embelishes a slightly different front bumper and a bonnet bulge, twin intake instead of single old model = half the road fund licence, weighs less, more torque but 30 bhp down on the 308 bhp HR engine difference between the 2 the newer model is more refined and smoother, the older car has alot more raw feeling to the engine; dfference between all 3 versions on the track = slim side of feck all, all 3 would cross within half a cars length of each other. only real difference is the slightly nicer interior and extra bragging rights that yours has just over 300 bhp where the others have just under 300bhp. there are more tuning options and after market parts for the older DE than there are for the HR There are more tuning bits as everyone wants to get their old 276bhp car up to the same power the 313 has as standard. So they end up on changing the pendulum, fitting exhaust system, decatting, remapping, air filters, spending a good grand or so and still struggle to meet the same 309bhp (including built in ram air system) the 313 has as standard. As for the torque thing, the 313 has maybe a couple of ft/lb less than the older models, but apparently has a much better torque curve. Under the skin the engine is 80% new over old ones with a long endless list of modifications to both the engine, chasis, centre of gravity, handling and the car. Sure, visually unless you know whats been done the non-educated viewer would probably only notice the facelift changes and a bonnet bulge. Interesting comparison review here... http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/208132/nissan_350z_313bhp.html All in all, the age old argument between 276bhp older models with lower road tax vs the 313 models seems to come down to 2 things. Either personal preference, or how much money you have. Everyone I know, including myself who has or has had the 313 version prefers it over the old ones. Most of the people who prefer the older ones do so because for the extra money the 313 costs they prefer to buy a cheaper 276 model and save a few quid as at the end of the day, they are all cracking cars. But of course, if we are talking about track laps etc... then theres very little in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 The flywheel I can understand but why would you want to uprate the clutch?? Why shouldn't I,seems like a good idea. Any reason why it shouldn't be upgraded,I ask out of ignorance concerning the Z. More money for no better performance, the standard clutch does the job fine You'd be better putting the money into braided hoses, plenum spacer etc. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 The flywheel I can understand but why would you want to uprate the clutch?? Why shouldn't I,seems like a good idea. Any reason why it shouldn't be upgraded,I ask out of ignorance concerning the Z. More money for no better performance, the standard clutch does the job fine You'd be better putting the money into braided hoses, plenum spacer etc. IMO Done that already,its the under bonnet heat that causes the clutch problem.With a thinner f/wheel,it should disperse quicker. Is there a plenum spacer for the 313 engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 With the 350z the best advise is to by the best what ever model that is in your price bracket that's in the best condition and been looked after the best. I'd rather buy a mint DE than a ragged HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sorry, thought you were talking 276, no spacer available for 313 as it already has one However, you might want to revisit whoever told you underbonnet heat causes the clutch problems and that a lighter flywheel will fix it, thats a creative one to say the least Its your money at the end of the day but in my experience uprated clutches tend to be heavier and grabbier, I dont see the point in spending cash on a part thats going to be less nice to use but gives you no dynamic improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 With the 350z the best advise is to by the best what ever model that is in your price bracket that's in the best condition and been looked after the best. I'd rather buy a mint DE than a ragged HR. Just what I did,one lady owner,she was Nissan UK Finance Dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Bower Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sorry, thought you were talking 276, no spacer available for 313 as it already has one However, you might want to revisit whoever told you underbonnet heat causes the clutch problems and that a lighter flywheel will fix it, thats a creative one to say the least Its your money at the end of the day but in my experience uprated clutches tend to be heavier and grabbier, I dont see the point in spending cash on a part thats going to be less nice to use but gives you no dynamic improvement. The under bonnet heat build up certainly doesn't help. A thicker/heavier mass will retain heat far longer than a thinner mass. Engine will spin up faster because of the weight reduction in reciprocating mass,these dynamics have been learnt over a period of years working with race engines/dynos. But I appreciate your points,thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 So youre telling me your clutch is slipping because the standard flywheel is retaining heat produced by the engine, and a thinner flywheel will prevent it? You dont just think the clutch might be worn out ........... does it only happen when the engine is hot? This might be something Nissan thought of when designing the car, you never know C'mon man, if youre a race engineer then you know that's not the case, maybe on a finely tuned formula car it could be but this is an overweight, downtuned GT car we are talking about here, not once has anyone I know changed the mass of their flywheel to make a clutch stop slipping, thats ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, thickness and mass have considerably less bearing on heat conduction and retention than material and environment but you know that as well I expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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