General Track Day Advice for a Beginner

[Oz Striker]

Hello folks, I'm a relatively new owner of a 2007 350Z , purchasing it in Aug 2012, but as its my 2nd car I don't get to drive it too often. So I've decided to do at least one track day a month for the next year, to enjoy the car and develop my skills as a driver, as I'd like to enter some form of cheap club racing events, in something like a 240sx or BMW E30 (dream on?!). But I am in no way ready for that at the moment, hence my plan to improve my skills.

 

The second motivating factor is I watch a fair bit of YouTube car shows (eg Drive), which are very entertaining, but they are somewhat irrelevant to me and I believe the avg driver. They are either hooning around in hypercars on airfields (ala Jeremy Clarkson) and/or expert drivers like Chris Harris power sliding cars on winding roads. What % of 911 drivers have done that on the road? (ok done that and not crashed?!!), never mind taken their car to the track??

 

I hope to have a video or 2 every month, where I'll briefly outline my objectives and then cut to a video of the track day, hopefully speak to some fellow track day enthusiasts and check out there machinery (nothing wrong with a little automotve eye candy). But rather than just the usual single camera track day video looking forwards, I'll have multiple cameras set up (forward, rearwards, driver facing so I can talk to 1 camera, pedal box and instrument binnacle, not outdoor body panel cameras to begin with. I'll occasionally change to my BMW E46 330Ci (to mix it up, & so i dont become too accustomed to one type of chassis set up), and once over the next 6 months hop into a Porsche Cayman at the Porsches driver centre, for 1-1 instruction at Silverstone race circuit (already done this once in a 911 last year).

 

The first trackday will be at Bedford Autodrome on the 15th July, video will follow shortly after.

 

So my first query is:

 

I currently have Bridgestone RE050, 245/45 R18 all round on Rays Alloys. Rear tread is at about 3mm, fronts at about 4-4.5mm

 

Finally getting to my Q!! I feel its important, as a beginner that I learn to recognise that I am approaching the limit, rather than outright cornering speed. My rear tyres will need replacing after the track day on the 15th, but what should I replace them with? My feeling was to stick the fronts, with what will prob be 4mm of tread left, on to the rear, and get something like 235's for the front and then eventually when the 245 rears need replacing for the second time, put 235 on, so I'll have 235's all round.

 

Hope the above makes sense. Am I talking nonsense? I think the Bridgestones RE050's at 245 width will mean the rear may be just too sticky, and the overall grip limits just too high.

 

Also I'm not a total noob to track days. I've driven the following on experience days at the track: Aston Martin DB9, Subaru Impreza Wrx sti, Mercedes C63, Mercedes SL65, Porsche 911, and a couple of proper track days in my own 330ci over the last 4 years. Of these cars i was able to "unstick" the AMG Mercs out of slow corners, but the 911 was planted on throttle, but I could feel the grip limits on corner entry, and really feel what the front tyres were doing.

 

Any advice and comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Daryl]

Looks like you have the wrong tyres on the front, as they are meant to be staggered,225 on the front,245 on the rear. Personally, id scrap the whole set of tyres and start a fresh with the correct sizes. That said, if you are doing a track day, and your first track day, it probably wont hurt to run them if you swapped the front to the rears. (Though the wheels are different front to rear I believe, so you may have to swap the tyres on the rims if you wanted to go down this route) From what iv read the Re050's are pretty decent, just take some time to get up to temp. (Check your pressures as often as possible to start with to keep them within a good window) Dont worry about the tyres being too sticky, you will still be able to slide the car around if thats what you want to do. Personaly, id do a track day on your own if its your first, that way you can concentrate on building momentum and nailing the corners etc. I find that if you go with mates, then the inevitable happens, and you try to keep up/ahead of them. But i am very competitive. lol

Bedford is very good for learning the car, as it has huge run off areas, and very little to hit. (Dont ride the kerb on the last corner, stay clear of it)

Remove everything out the car that you dont need, the last thing you want is a random CD or can of Red Bull flying around while your pushing on.

Check your brakes etc before you go, makesure the car is up to a whole day of driving hard. Went to Beddord once and a guy with a 350 showed up, did a few laps and moaned that his brakes were crap. He had no pad material left on the front, and he didnt bother doing anymore laps. What a waste of money and time. The Z is a heavy car, so bank on changing the pads after the event if they are below half way. Though you could always upgrade them now, and then get them bedded in before the track day.

[Daryl]

Also, dont concentrate on going fast straight away, build up the speed slowly. If you try to go fast straight away, you will probably spank it, so take your time, and get your lines right for the corners first, then just go a little faster each time. My first track day i spent the morning with the TC on, and by the lunch break was finding that it was hindering me rather than helping me. Try going round with the TC on to start with, get things tidy, then when you are happy, turn it off and see how you get on. You may find the TC will be going abit mental as you have the wrong tyres on the front.

[Slosh]

If the brake fluid hasn't been changed lately then that would be my suggestion. Don't want to be coming to a bend and the pedal hits the floor.

[Oz Striker]

Thanks for the advice, I wasnt expecting such good info so quickly as there were hardly any other threads in this sub-forum!

 

And hands up, my bad. I went out and checked, I do indeed actually have a staggered set up with 225/45's up front, dont know how i got mixed up!

 

Our american cousins across the pond reckon Hankook R-S3 are an excellent track orientated street tyre, but they dont appear to be available in the UK from what i can see. I think I'll either stick with the RE050's or go for Michelin pilot super sports for the rears.

 

Daryl thanks for the tips and track specific advise for Bedford, its really appreciated. yeh the large run off areas is one of the reasons I chose it as the circuit to learn the racing craft.

 

 

As for the other checks:

 

Yeh Slosh, I'll need to check the status of the brakes, I'm sure i got the brake fluid changed last August, if not it'll get changed. If it was changed I'll just do a bleed, to make sure there's fresh fluid in the caliper and no air.

 

Gonna check my pads (if they need changed I'll just replace with stock pads for now, will look into after market options as I time goes on)

 

Regards to the oil. In the E46 330ci it was recommended to overfill the oil by 0.5-1 litre, to minimise chance of oil starvation, as unlike the M3 it doesn't have baffles in the oil sump tray. Any such precaution needed in the Z?

 

Also in the 330Ci, it was best to keep more than a half tank of fuel, to minimise the chance of fuel starvation through long corners. I'll do this anyway in the Z as a precaution, as no harm can come of it, sure i'll lose a bit of speed but my objectives as you guys have pointed out isnt speed, but to have smooth steering, good lines by hiting those apexes and smooth progressive braking

 

My plan is to do 5 lap stints. 1 out lap, 3 'hot' laps, then 1 in lap to let things cool. Apply wheel chocks or put in gear the car when in pits as I've heard handbrake can stick if you put it on while the brakes are hot.

 

I'm gonna be there myself, so no distractions, although hope to rope in a buddy for future dates to film some drive by shots

Edited July 7, 2013 by Oz Striker

[Z-monster]

Doing my second trackday this Friday. Big fan of Harris, too (have you seen the most recent one with the F-Type, V8 Vantage and 911 around Castle Combe? LOVE IT)

 

Results from my first one: bakes are good, but as mentioned its a heavy car, pads need to be checked - ended up replacing mine. Heat builds up quickly in the wheels - pressures are a must to keep an eye on - if you can get full nitro inflation, all the better in my opinion.

 

I have an "American Handbrake" (2x half bricks) which I chock the wheels with. Oil seemed OK, TC wasn't too aggressive on track but did save me from a couple of spins in the wet.

 

You'll have fun - Bedford is great - did that in a Caterham. I've done Abingdon and I'm about to do Hullavington - both Airfields with plenty of run off. Looking forward to seeing the videos!

[Oz Striker]

Doing my second trackday this Friday. Big fan of Harris, too (have you seen the most recent one with the F-Type, V8 Vantage and 911 around Castle Combe? LOVE IT)

 

Yes Harris is amazing! Yes he drifts the cars, here there everywhere which is awesome, but he is usually also realistic when it comes to whether a car is enjoyable on real roads at 7/10, and admits openly that some cars although not the best are bought for the kudos, badge etc and because they are currently in vogue, which lets admit it is a big part of why a lot of performance cars are bought like he mentions about the F-type in the review

 

Are you back at bedford for the 2nd event or elsewhere?

 

Results from my first one: bakes are good, but as mentioned its a heavy car, pads need to be checked - ended up replacing mine. Heat builds up quickly in the wheels - pressures are a must to keep an eye on - if you can get full nitro inflation, all the better in my opinion.

 

Checked my brakes, the fronts are about 1-2mm away from the metal acoustic wear tab, so gonna get them replaced with a set of base pagids from eurocarparts today. I would do them myself, but damn its hot outside!! I got all sweaty just getting the tyres off to have a closer look at the inner pads at the rear, as I've read they wear faster than the outers.

 

 

I measured the inners at 4.6mm, and the outers at 5.6 I reckon that should be fine for now, as in general for brake force/distribution I believe its a front:rear 70:30 split.

 

 

 

 

 

TC wasn't too aggressive on track but did save me from a couple of spins in the wet.

 

TC saved me too, once in my 330i at knockhill at exit of turn 3, unfortunately the Ultima following closely behind me saw me slide and kick up some dust beyond the rumble strip, he must have lifted off suddenly (or worse braked) and spun off. I felt bad, but at least he didn't sustain any damage and continued on with the day.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Oz Striker

[Z-monster]

 

TC saved me too, once in my 330i at knockhill at exit of turn 3, unfortunately the Ultima following closely behind me saw me slide and kick up some dust beyond the rumble strip, he must have lifted off suddenly (or worse braked) and spun off. I felt bad, but at least he didn't sustain any damage and continued on with the day.

 

Turn 3 - is that the blind up-hill Ess? Knockhill is a fun track! I remember seeing a Scoobie miss the braking point on turn on and sliding into the gravel, and then came back across the track in front of us - I could see the dude's eye colour!

 

You're spot on with Harris - tells it how it is - interesting what he said about the 370Z

 

[rayhoop]

I would have loved to have taken my Z on a track day or two... but I'm selling it now and:

a) I dont have the time to make any forthcoming track days

I dont want to tempt fate and crash it when I'm supposed to be selling it

 

Its a shame, as I had made sure things like all the oils/fluids had been flushed, brake fluid flushed through etc. Oh well - maybe next time

 

Enjoy! Looking forward to seeing the videos and see what you find as you progress.

[Oz Striker]

I would have loved to have taken my Z on a track day or two... but I'm selling it now and:

a) I dont have the time to make any forthcoming track days

I dont want to tempt fate and crash it when I'm supposed to be selling it

 

Its a shame, as I had made sure things like all the oils/fluids had been flushed, brake fluid flushed through etc. Oh well - maybe next time

 

Enjoy! Looking forward to seeing the videos and see what you find as you progress.

 

Nah I wouldn't either if i knew i was going to sell shortly, i know I'll be keeping the Z till at least next summer,so i thought might as well use that time well!

 

In the process today of testing camera positions and mounts. There isn't enough room between the back of the steering wheel and the speedo to mount a camera there that can take in the rev counter and speedo, so I think I'll be mounting that camera just in front of the B-Pillar, aimed at the speedo. Pedal box camera should be straight forward so long as I can get some strip LED lighting put into the footwell.

 

Turn 3 - is that the blind up-hill Ess? Knockhill is a fun track! I remember seeing a Scoobie miss the braking point on turn on and sliding into the gravel, and then came back across the track in front of us - I could see the dude's eye colour!

 

No turn 3 is the flat 90 deg right hander that comes after turns 1&2, the right & then left downhill chicane. I took it easy on that roller-coaster blind S curve!

 

You're spot on with Harris - tells it how it is - interesting what he said about the 370Z

 

Yeh, i found his views interesting too. He calls the 370z a 8/10's car, only really being let down in his opinion above that. But if most drivers were honest we won't, (can't?) push our cars beyond about 8/10's on a track never mind a public road. Hence most people really only exploit a sport cars straight line performance and that's were a Z trounces a BRZ/FRS, and you know what I'll admit it's nice feeling to floor the throttle and hear that V6 roar, we are petroheads after all. In addition its not like the BRZ is a lot cheaper, if it were RX8 money, which was what 20-22k?, then there would be a debate for Joe Bloggs like me, if I were looking to spend that sort of money.

 

Anyway back on track, had the front pads replaced for £40. Joker wanted another £45 just to bleed the brakes, as all 4 wheels would need to come off??? but nipples can easily be got at through the spokes?? I've left it for now, as I've only done 4k miles since the fluid was changed 10 months ago. Will do myself once I get my 1 man vacuum pump brake bleeder down from glasgow

 

I measured the front pads as best I could with a digital caliper with the wheel off at 4.6mm for outer pad, and 3.2mm for inner pad. I measured the new pads at 8.5mm.

Once the old pads came off I measured them more accurately at 5.05mm and 3.8mm, but one of the inner pads was crumbling some what near the centre, so it was a good job I replaced them.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Oz Striker

[Ekona]

I measured them more accurately at 5.05mm

That's some pretty frickin' accurate measuring!

[rtbiscuit]

cat driver training days are good, they run them on airfields, and as your the only on eon track at the time there is nothing to hit but cones. they do taster days for about £40 where you get very little tuition, but can have a go at a range of course setups and try it yourself. or you can book in properly with them for proper driver trainer days, where you'll have an expeirneced driver sit in with on laps and give you feed back an dguidance on your driving and how to improve and get the most out of your driving.

 

i would tempted to start off there and get the basics nailed first then move on to track days where you can then apply your knowledge.

[rtbiscuit]

I measured them more accurately at 5.05mm

That's some pretty frickin' accurate measuring!

 

micrometer?

[Oz Striker]

I measured them more accurately at 5.05mm

That's some pretty frickin' accurate measuring!

 

micrometer?

 

Haha! yes sorry, digital caliper micrometer. I couldnt quite get it to line up correctly with the pads still in the caliper so had to guesstimate it a little, and i played it safe rather than overestimate how much pad material was left.

 

Z Legend what website is it for the driver training days?

[Oz Striker]

So track day at Bedford on Monday has been and gone and was rather eventful and informative.

 

Lots of info so bear with me, hear goes:

 

(1) For some reason I had grand notions of making a sort of track day show, but on getting to the venue, most of the morning was taken up just by getting used to the car & learning the track. I thought I would even have enough time to shoot a short “track day preparation video†incl checking for tyre scrubbing, applying plastidip spray to key areas of the bodywork to protect the paint, maybe even talking to the camera as I went round the track!! Forget it! My hands were full in morning, I’ve realised I need to concentrate on the driving.

 

2) I had trouble with camera set up. Firstly my B camera, a 1080p compact was attached to the rear windscreen on the inside looking fwd, except it fell off, presumably because where I had attached the suction cup, the heating element wires were crossing the windscreen and so affected adhesion. The camera lens got stuck and I was rather miffed with myself. So I thought F**k it, concentrate on the driving in the morning, and if you’ve got time in the afternoon to film, then fine. I’ve since read that a camera should be cable tied to a mounting point in the car, in case suction mount fails.

 

Also setting up camera mounts takes an age!! Do it the day before, they are fiddly and you always need to improvise a little. Also test them out. What I thought was my best mount (a cullman), resulted in a very shaky image when attached to the rear windscreen, when I reviewed the footage the following day, and there was an annoying rattle with it.

 

3) Towards the end of the morning session I felt the clutch peddle drop a little. I came in and let things cool. Then in the afternoon, 1st session out, with instructor, was giving it some beans, I felt the clutch again drop a little, he heard the clutch slipping and we let the car cool for a lap and then come into the pits. where i went from 1st to reverse gear and the clutch dropped completely!! I switched off the engine, engaged reverse then started her up and was able to park it up, and again let the Z cool for a good 45 minutes, after which the clutch was ok again. I managed 2 more (gentler) stints, and on the very last 2 laps of the last stint the clutch dropped a little again, not too the floor this time. Came in packed up, and drove back to London and clutch was fine.

 

I've been googling. And sounds like it could be a clutch master or slave cylinder issue, combined with clutch fluid getting hot as its shared with brake fluid. HOWEVER I have noted I think I ride the clutch a little on track. Part of this is because I have to sit closer to have adequate control over the steering wheel, as no steerig rake adjustment, but this means as (I’m 6 foot tall) that my legs are more bent than I would like, and hampering my clutch and throttle timing, resulting in too much overlap, "i think". Now I know many of you regular trackers are probably 6 foot plus, and I agree that the underlying problem lies with myself, “I†have an issue, where I apply the throttle too early as I've changed up a gear, but I think its made a little worse by the seating.

 

4) The stock Brembo brakes on are NOT up to a full day at Bedford GT, which is > 3 miles. The fronts were new OEM pagid pads, however they perhaps could have been better bedded in by me, in the week before. In the morning session as I started pushing on (max of 4 hot laps), I started to feel the brake pedal soften a little, no worries I came in. Front disc temps in the morning were about 210, in the afternoon about 280 deg C. But on my very last session of the afternoon, in fact I think it was the last lap, the peddle went pretty soft, and I could hear the brakes groaning, the pads had hit the metal wear tab & groaned all the way home! The following day I checked the inner pad and there is virtually no pad material left at all, and the inner disc surface has as a nice rusty lip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At first I was disappointed by the brake performance of the Z, especially in comparison to the E46 330ci. But in fact it’s not a fair comparison. Firstly the 330ci has up rated brake bits: Goodridge braided hoses, Black diamond grooved front discs and EBC redstuffs and performed very well. Secondly it has only seen action at knockhill, and then never a full day. Knockhill has only 2 hard braking zones from high speed, Bedford GT has 5! Lastly the 330ci is slower, hence will be approaching any corner at a slower speed so, the brakes have less work to do.

 

5) HURRAY, the 1st good point! Even though the brakes didn’t stand up well from a fade point of view, the bite, power, progressive feel and the not overly aggressive ABS system are all very good IMO.

 

6) Car turned in very well into a corner, doesn’t feel the same weight as the 330ci, I guess it must

have a much lower COG, and double wishbones upfront help. If I pushed too hard into a corner or too early on the power midcorner the RE050’s let me know immediately they weren’t happy by pushing wide/understeering a little.

 

After the instructor told me which fast corners i could go faster, I could feel the rear tyres “jittering†or “dancing†a little, without the TC cutting in, very nice. Towards the end I did a few laps without the TC and got the back end out on the hairpins, no major drifts just on the exit phase

 

7) the rear tyre tread only went from about 3 mm, to just above the 1.6mm mark. I took my Michelin Supersports with me in case they needed fitting, but I’ve left it for now

 

 

As a result of dealing with brake & clutch issues, I wasn’t too enthusiastic about doing much filming, I didn’t even bother with the footwell camera, which in hindsight would actually have helped me identify “my†gear change issue. I have got some footage, so will see what I can put together in the next week.

 

But at the moment my priorities are the remedying the clutch and brake issues. So Plan of action which need done, within the next 4 weeks before my next event:

New discs

New Pads

Braided hoses

Diagnose clutch issue

 

I’ve seen some threads here but you fella’s use so many abbreviations! From reading various threads, here is what I’ve narrowed it down to:

 

Front Discs: PF (Performance friction?), DBA (who is this? How many options are available?), Stoptech, Tarox G88 or F2000 (both are vented & grooved, not drilled)

 

Pads: I’m thinking firstly Pagid RS29, or either ferrodo ds2500, Axxis Ultimate (heard good things about these, got a set ready to go on the 330) or perhaps a pad from Hawk?

 

Brake lines: Goodridge or HEL. I’ve heard the goodridge are a better fit, but unlike the discs and pads I wont be fitting these myself. So go for the cheaper HEL’s and get them fitted by Abbey??

 

Fluid: ATE Super blue, ‘cause it make it easier to bleed!!

 

Will discus with Abbey to about the clutch issue, but the Z is grounded until I replace the discs and

pads!

 

Once again all and any opinions would be much appreciated.

 

Laslty a photo of DIY shadow front alloys post track day!:

[Neilp]

Get ebc bluestuff if you're an aggressive braker, ebc yellow stuff are great pads. Red stuff is far too soft for the zed. Great value for money is ebc yellow stuff pads.

 

Change fluid to RBF 660 and fit braided hoses at the same time.

 

With that set up you should be fine.

 

From your photos it looks like you have a stuck piston or two which has causes the uneven wear

[Ekona]

Absolutely, no way would you wear a set of brand new brake pads out in one single track day. Definitely a problem there.

 

With the camera thing, I find attaching my GoPro very easy with either the suction mount or the clamp. I may use the app to check the exact shot once or twice in a day, but other than that it's foolproof. Some TDs are happy with just suction, some want them tied down too. MSV tend to be stricter than most.

 

Definitely change both slave and master cylinders on your clutch sooner rather than later, don't leave it until you're stuck somewhere.

 

PF pads and discs are superb, I had them on mine. Top money, but top quality. Ally hats reduce unsprung weight, too. Get the Goodridge lines, you're talking peanuts in what a set of discs, pads and clutch bits are going to cost you. RBF660 or Endless fluid would be my choice, I used the Endless stuff on mine and there is nothing better.

[Z-monster]

Looks like you had some fun! Bedford is a great track to learn your car on!

 

Clutch fluid change will cure your "sticky" clutch. Had mine done by Nissan with the standard stuff and that totally cured the problem (£49 all in) - seems to be common with the HR engines - clutch fluid changes are a life saver. I'm about to break 70K miles and its still on its original clutch. Done two track days in it and drive "spiritedly" most of the time - no issues since fluid change in October.

 

I'm running the Yellow Stuff on OEM Front discs and the change is very noticable. Otherwise I'm OEM with everything else (all fluids and hoses & rear brakes). Couldn't tell you if braided hoses will make a massive difference, but I'll do maybe 3 tracks a year so an upgrade like that is probably not too necessary....but that being said...Heat coming off the wheels last week was INCREDIBLE. Could have cooked an egg on the spokes! Brake fade for me was almost non-existent, however, or wasn't massively noticeable, again standard OEM fluids, but driving like I stole it.

 

Camera wise - Suction cup on the gopro is fine for me, if in the Caterham I'll use the roll bar mount. A lot of other drives seem to use the number plate block and front grille as the forward mounting point - otherwise I'd use the 1/4 panel windows or the rear wheel arches. Rear bumper is an excellent place to mount, too - get the exhaust note and not much wind noise.

 

Sounds like you had a lot of fun (amongst the frustration!) I look forward to seeing your results - but I hope the above helps in come way.

[Oz Striker]

Thanks for the advice chaps. Regards to the clutch, for now, I will have the fluid replaced, next time I'll be doing a half day so see how it goes.

 

Z-monster, I had borrowed a digital recorder and bought a mic from maplin, but just could be bothered fitting it on with the issues i was having that day. I even took a sock to help cut down on wind noise!!

 

I'm really confused as to whats going on with the brakes and have posted a separate thread about this:

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/73788-help-needed-brembo-inner-pads-wearing-faster-than-outer-pads/

 

If i cant be sure i've gotten to the bottom of the brake issue, theres no chance I'm sticking anything as expensive as DBA, PF on the car. Might just get OEM discs, and EBC yellow stuff, goodridge lines and uprated fluid in meantime

 

ps no offence to anyone, but is just me or are some of the custom elise, caterham style car drivers nuts??! Twice i had one lunge down my inside, luckily i spotted him before the braking zone, and I took a wide line, cause as i turned in the angles changed such that i couldn't see him at all in my side mirror. had i not i would have gone for my apex and we'd probably have hit. I wasnt holding them up, they had just come up behind me and I would have done what i was doing all day, indicating to allow them to pass after the corner.

[rtbiscuit]

 

Z Legend what website is it for the driver training days?

http://www.catdrivertraining.co.uk/

[Z-monster]

ps no offence to anyone, but is just me or are some of the custom elise, caterham style car drivers nuts??!

 

Yes. Also really competitive, but great banterous people outside the car.

 

What I was told they do was get up, really close on the corners and try to sit in your mirrors so yo can see them - tiny little thin gs anyway - i spent my life looking for them on the track as the Zed has a horrid 1/4 panel/door blind spot that a Caterham sits perfectly in. Anyway...probably misjudged your braking ability and ended up in the wrong place?

 

But yes - they're nuts!

[twobears]

I know nothing about cars whatsoever but exactly the same thing happened to my car after my first track session (also used Colin at CAT driver training) and I asked Nissan to replace the master and slave cylinders, following advice on the forum. Cured the problem for me

[docwra]

Blimey, and to think I just drive to the circuit, put a smack hat on and give it death

 

Just to reiterate what Ekona has said, the stock brakes are actually pretty good, the hoses and fluid definitely benefit from upgrading though. Are you really driving round Bedford with the TCS on though?

[Oz Striker]

Z Legend what website is it for the driver training days?

http://www.catdrivertraining.co.uk/

 

Thanks I'll check them out in more detail, I had found there website after doing bedford, they have quite an extensive collection of courses, but as with a lot of these websites its difficult to know which are any good, without recommendations.

 

Sounds like youve done some sessions?

 

Are you really driving round Bedford with the TCS on though?

 

For the morning and 1st half of the afternoon yes, first time on track with the Z and first time at bedford so i didnt want to bin it! Saw a E46 M3 and SLK AMG both go wide on exit of a hairpin and spinning onto grass and an ariel atom spin in a high speed right hander. I guess any damage would be cosmetic, cracked bumper or side skirt, but still PIA having to get fixed

[Ekona]

Ironically the SLK would've had the TCS on, as you can't turn it off 100% in a Merc

 

If you've not spun it, you're not pushing hard enough.