"A £30k car can never be made as good as a £100k one"

[Ekona]

You can't even use a 350Z to the full on the roads, so that makes your point even more pertinant.

 

It's very much a personal view of value. Is a Golf GTi worth £30K? I'd say no. Is a 350Z worth £30K? Yes, I believe so. Is a 458 worth £200K? Eeeek, you're pushing it I think. Zonda for £1M? Yeah, I think so.

[Fernandofan08]

You cant use an RX8 to its full capacity on a road, but my point is what is the point of having such powerful 100k cars when you cant use any of what makes it £100k? You cant use nigh on all cars to its full capacity either. but Id rather buy a 6k car and use half of it than use a quater of a 100k car, ontop of being personally, too afraid to crash a £100k car as opposed to a £6k car on a trac. So in that case, a £30k car has relatively the same capability as a £100k car on public roads, which then means its just as good performance wise as a £100k car because a second in 0-60 or whatever isn't going to make any difference on public roads.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Fernandofan08

[Ekona]

Part of the £100K cost is the suspension, chassis and steering, things you can very much make use of on the roads. Power is nothing without control.

[BulletMagnet]

You cant use an RX8 to its full capacity on a road, but my point is what is the point of having such powerful 100k cars when you cant use any of what makes it £100k? You cant use nigh on all cars to its full capacity either. but Id rather buy a 6k car and use half of it than use a quater of a 100k car, ontop of being personally, too afraid to crash a £100k car as opposed to a £6k car on a trac. So in that case, a £30k car has relatively the same capability as a £100k car on public roads, which then means its just as good performance wise as a £100k car because a second in 0-60 or whatever isn't going to make any difference on public roads.

I suppose it depends.

If it's mere mortals like us with a regular day job, then what you say is true, but for those that have money to burn AND a keen interest to drive the car properly, those will regularly go to track events and/or to regular pilgrimages to the Nordschleife. Different worlds, different rules

[StevoD]

then why bother with 100k ferrari lambos and just everyone save for a veyron

[KyleR]

Why have 250-300bhp that you can't use on the road in your zed compared to a 68bhp 1.0 Kia Picanto, it even has back seats!

 

All arguments against super/hyper cars are null and void, simply because they're pretty much worth every penny.

 

Have you ever looked at a 458 Ferrari inside and out? I don't mean pictures, I mean the real thing. Now compare that to a 360 which you can buy for about 35k second hand now or even a 430 which can be had for about 60k and there is no comparison. The 458 is worth every penny of the 200k for the luxury and styling alone, not to mention the chassis, suspension and engine.

 

If I bout a brand new 30k 370Z and stuck a ridiculous amount of time and money into it, say about 40-50k for forged engine, twin turbo, amuse kit etc etc, it would looks the dogs danglies, but I would have a much warmer, fuzzier feeling inside every time I look out my window or drive to shops in my brand spanking GTR/DB9/911 etc etc.

 

So yes, you can make a faster car for less money, you can make a better handling car for less money, but you'll never make a BETTER car for the money

[KyleR]

then why bother with 100k ferrari lambos and just everyone save for a veyron

 

Well, if every member chucks in £1000 we MIGHT be able to get one

[StevoD]

then why bother with 100k ferrari lambos and just everyone save for a veyron

 

Well, if every member chucks in £1000 we MIGHT be able to get one

 

Well this is its what i used to tell all my mates when i used to throw money at a 1k civic

 

your telling me why put money into a 1k car when you could save and have a 5k car to which my reply was why have you got a 5k when you could save for 10k, it goes on and on untill you to the millions

[KyleR]

Exactly. I've put 3-4k into my 6.5k zed in the last 17 months with more to come, maybe I should just stop, sell my wheels exhaust etc and the car, save up for 3 years and buy a GTR that I can't afford to run

[Fernandofan08]

Well theres a huge difference between spending £1000-£4000 on a £6000 car to make it better, as opposed to spending £50k or more to buying a car. If you can afford to spend £80k on a 370z and heavily modifying it then you wouldnt have qualms about buying a Ferrari in the first place or a GTR. Its about what money you have in the first place. 'A £30k car can never be made as good as a £100k car', is the £30k car buying a brand new car, or the original RRP of a car IE a 350z and buying it second hand at £6000 and comparing it to a brand new £100k car? Thats a different ball park too.

 

But theres a difference between spending a few thousand on a Saxo or Civic when you could buy a 350z for a few grand more, as opposed to bying a second hand 350z and spending a couple of grand on that as opposed to shelling £40k more for a second hand GTR. In that sense, a few grand on a 350z will improve the car in many ways. To the level of a GTR? No. but give yourself a £10k budget and you'll have a supreme vehicle thats not lightyears away from a £50k second hand or £100k new GTR

[Jetpilot]

but Id rather buy a 6k car and use half of it than use a quater of a 100k car

 

I did a 70 mile journey in the Zed the other day to catch up with a mate, weekday daytime, all nice A roads, average speed 38 mph.

 

Its all relative, i probably didnt come within 10% of the cars abilities, but i enjoyed it all the same however frustrating it was at times (tractors, horse boxes, caravans, lorries etc) and if i had a Gallardo i would have enjoyed that too.

 

Driving cannot be measured in whether you are able to use what you have under the bonnet, it is these days literally about getting from A to B and at that point you might as well have the slowest most fruggel vehicle about. I think i was very lucky when i was into motorbikes (about 10 + years ago) i reckon i just about enjoyed the last few years of when the roads could be enjoyed and driving/riding was enjoyable. The only way to enjoy a drive these days is either head to the highlands/mid wales or get up at 5 in the morning when there is no one about, hence why track days are so popular as the roads are just not worth the time, effort or risk.

[wizard]

Well theres a huge difference between spending £1000-£4000 on a £6000 car to make it better, as opposed to spending £50k or more to buying a car. If you can afford to spend £80k on a 370z and heavily modifying it then you wouldnt have qualms about buying a Ferrari in the first place or a GTR. Its about what money you have in the first place. 'A £30k car can never be made as good as a £100k car', is the £30k car buying a brand new car, or the original RRP of a car IE a 350z and buying it second hand at £6000 and comparing it to a brand new £100k car? Thats a different ball park too.

 

But theres a difference between spending a few thousand on a Saxo or Civic when you could buy a 350z for a few grand more, as opposed to bying a second hand 350z and spending a couple of grand on that as opposed to shelling £40k more for a second hand GTR. In that sense, a few grand on a 350z will improve the car in many ways. To the level of a GTR? No. but give yourself a £10k budget and you'll have a supreme vehicle thats not lightyears away from a £50k second hand or £100k new GTR

 

Are you new to the world of modifying? - There is no such thing as budget my friend.

 

There is a 'point of no return' when you start modding a car.

 

The 30k new vs 6k used is all relative. The price of exotics also decrease, maybe not to the same extent.

 

This is becoming overly complicated debate.

Edited June 14, 2013 by wizard

[Ekona]

Well theres a huge difference between spending £1000-£4000 on a £6000 car to make it better, as opposed to spending £50k or more to buying a car. If you can afford to spend £80k on a 370z and heavily modifying it then you wouldnt have qualms about buying a Ferrari in the first place or a GTR. Its about what money you have in the first place.

I disagree. There's many, many people out there (some on here) who have the ability to buy the supercar, but still chose to but something more normal. Just because you have a ton of money doesn't mean you feel the need to go and spend it on the best thing possible. Sure, I bet the choice is nice to have whether you buy a 458 or a Focus ST, but not every person in that position will choose the Ferrari.

[KyleR]

I thought this argument was about if you could make a 30k car better than a 100k one? The answer IMO is no, no matter how much money you throw at it.

[docwra]

I think youre missing two vital points - regardless of how much money you spend on your 350Z, its still a 350Z - we might love them but give the girl in accounts youve been after for ages the choice between that and an R8 V10, for instance and you wont see which way she went. Come to sell your 100K 350Z and youll be looking at not a lot more than normal 350Z prices as well.

 

Sure, as a driving enthusiast you can tweak, tune and upgrade to your hearts content but whatever you do will be compromising something else and probably making the car less attractive as a buy to Joe average, you are also never going to replicate the quality, image, reputation and overall harmony of a 100K list motor.

 

I was in a Rolls Royce garage the other day, and asked the guy if modern Rolls were actually that much better than an S-Class or a big BMW 7 - obviously they were back in the 80's but everything has caught up now. He said that while dynamically and build quality wise there probably isnt a lot in it, but the design, materials and integration in the Rolls is why people still buy them

[Jetpilot]

Dont forget that are also a lot of professional modifying companies.

 

Brabus, Ruf, Cosworth, Aplina (if they are still going) to name but a few of the better known ones.

[rtbiscuit]

alpina are still on the go,

 

you also have in house tuners as well like Mugen, Nismo, TRD

 

and after market tuners who produce their own cars wih their own products on like Spoon, Stillen etc

[stuarty]

I'm not a fan of modified cars if i'm honest. Maybe a set of wheels or an exhaust but thats about it. I like the oem look. I can never understand folk who spend ££££ on modifying cars.

I would rather spend the extra money on buying a better car with more spec from factory or lower miles etc. Also i'd never buy a modified car as its down to personal taste.

Also, take the GTR for example, what does some back street tuner know that nissan dosent??

I know most manufacturers play it safe with the power in mst performance cars but its for a reason. Finally ive been in cars with all sorts of cash spent on them and half the time it wastes the car for me.

But thats just my humble opinion and i appreciate everyone is different!

[Dblock]

I'm not a fan of modified cars if i'm honest. Maybe a set of wheels or an exhaust but thats about it. I like the oem look. I can never understand folk who spend ££££ on modifying cars.

I would rather spend the extra money on buying a better car with more spec from factory or lower miles etc. Also i'd never buy a modified car as its down to personal taste.

Also, take the GTR for example, what does some back street tuner know that nissan dosent??

I know most manufacturers play it safe with the power in mst performance cars but its for a reason. Finally ive been in cars with all sorts of cash spent on them and half the time it wastes the car for me.

But thats just my humble opinion and i appreciate everyone is different!

 

Alot more sometimes. Sometimes. A tuner is not held back by price or different markets etc. even if I had a silly expensive car id still mod it. I get a zonda I'm still going to do something to it. I love doing stuff to cars not about the money but it's about making the car as good as it can be.

[Ekona]

I used to love everything and anything modified, but these days I;d much rather see a sympathetically adjusted car than one wiv massive speekahs and wikid spoilers and dayum cold air intake innit bruv attached to it.

[TomS]

I wouldn't call Litchfields or SVM a back-street tuner and they certainly know a lot more than Nissan dealerships about the GTR as 99.9% of their customers will be in Micras/Almeras.

 

I made my 350z as good as it could be, in my eyes, without spending silly money on it (well the missus would say it was silly money). I probably spent around 70% of what I actually paid for the car 2 years ago on modifying it. You can see around a 25-30% increase in power in a GTR for similar money as you would have to put into a 350z for only a 10% increase. I'll definitely be modifying my next car as it's a disease, it'll cost a lot less than £100k and I can't think of another car for around £100k that I'd actually want for performance/practicality.

Edited June 14, 2013 by TomS

[StevoD]

I'm not a fan of modified cars if i'm honest. Maybe a set of wheels or an exhaust but thats about it. I like the oem look. I can never understand folk who spend ££££ on modifying cars.

I would rather spend the extra money on buying a better car with more spec from factory or lower miles etc. Also i'd never buy a modified car as its down to personal taste.

Also, take the GTR for example, what does some back street tuner know that nissan dosent??

I know most manufacturers play it safe with the power in mst performance cars but its for a reason. Finally ive been in cars with all sorts of cash spent on them and half the time it wastes the car for me.

But thats just my humble opinion and i appreciate everyone is different!

 

Wasnt the Juke R built by a Uk tuning company rather than nissan doing it them selfs?

 

And cosworth for example ford need there help as did may others

[Ian]

For what I spent on the Z & R34 I could have had a Gallardo

 

Women would have fallen from the sky, everyone would have loved me & it would have been epic

 

Would I do it again? Hell yeah If I had bought the Gallardo then I'd have changed the wheels, changed the exhaust, few CF bits & then we are into Murci money.

 

Modifying cars for me is all about what I like & what I think should be done to car (most people here & on GTROC will tell you I have no taste ) Why buy something that I can just about afford to buy but then I can't afford to run it or mod it in the way that I want? Then all I'm left with is a depreciating chunk of metal that I regret buying & is just like every other one that came from the factory

 

The look on the DB9 owners face as my little Z pulled away from him, the stares & smiles from the 911 owners wife as they pull alongside - priceless

[NeilMH]

Even I don't understand what I wrote before

 

1. I remember Jez Coates explaining how much science went into choosing the variable rate springs and dampers for the latest Caterham 7. I am not sure how my rudimentary knowledge of this stuff would enable me to do better than them or Porsche or whoever.

2. This may not be fair but I think there may be a positive vibe that people attach to their own mods....in other words they tend to be always perceived as better. I remember changing the springs and dampers on an Elise (for an "approved" lowering kit). Everyone appeared to think they were better. I thought it spoiled the car. I said that and then some people started coming out of the woodwork saying they thought that as well but they thought it must just be them and "didn't like to say". I tend to be very cautious now and stick to my own instinct.

3. Some years ago I dropped off the Elise and came back home via country roads in a Fiesta of theirs, rowing it along using a good percentage of its capacity. It struck me how much I enjoyed that. So for road use in the UK I wondered how much it's worth spending other than for looks/status/pride, etc. So I agree with Dan's point earlier that you can't really use much of even a 350Zs capacity on the roads.

Edited June 14, 2013 by NeilMH

[Jetpilot]

Also, take the GTR for example, what does some back street tuner know that nissan dosent??

I know most manufacturers play it safe with the power in mst performance cars but its for a reason.

 

Your right, the main reason is budget and emissions and mpg targets, nothing to do with the performance they can or cant extract from any given engine.