neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 HI All, I was after some advice, I joined a new company around 2 years ago after the first year the company wasn't doing as well as they had hoped and in general the country was in recession so when it came round to pay increases I wasn't really excepting anything huge. We got around a 3% increase. Which was great. This year however the company has had one of the best years on record with massive profits (in the 10s of millions) and the following year is expected to be even better. We just had our end of year review where all the talk from the CEO was how amazing the year has been etc..and I have been given a healthy bonus (we worked our nuts off), they are also changing around the team so I will in effect be in a more senior role from now onwards, but when it came round to pay rises we actually got 2.5% which I am really disappointed about. I know that may sound terrible to people who have had pay cuts, lost jobs etc.. but I cant help but feel a little shafted as the company has posted record profits they have gone through the motions of saying how well they have done internally and externally and then seem to shaft the employees. They have backed up the small increase by saying that in other industries people have lost jobs, had pay cuts etc.. which I know is true but it feels like a bit of a cheap shot when the company is doing so well, and will most likely have a record year. It is also a year where the company is moving office so several employees including myself will be worse off with the move (in terms of fuel etc...). I was wondering what peoples thoughts on this sort of thing were, am I being a bit greedy/selfish or would you recommend speaking to my boss about it, and how would you recommend going about that? (I have never in previous roles had a situation like this where I feel so let down, and actually quite angry. I am also not one to moan about pay ever.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 I should add when I say health bonus it was the max bonus I can earn with the company at 10% of salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhide Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 My view, as s department manager and involved in regular management meetings to discuss staff pay etc is that you've done alright. The 3% rise was likely to boost moral and get more productivity which has paid off. You've received a bonus, what % of your earnings was your bonus if you don't mind? and a 2.5% increase is a sizeable amount in this climate. Many don't get a rise for years. You've had a payrise in 1 year, a bonus and another rise in year 2...count yourself very lucky. I too am in a similar boat though, joined, got promoted, 3 payrises and very healthy end of year bonuses plus loads of social perks and extravagant parties...but i'm wholefully grateful for it considering the economic times we're in I am privileged, especially considering i'm only 27 and about 10 years ahead of my career progression considering the types of projects I get to work on. If you really feel that hard done by, and i'd only measure that by how much you've contributed to the company, then set a meeting with your boss or HR manager to discuss. But don't go in guns blazing, have a strategic approach, present your case, with evidence and negotiate it...what have you done for the company, what do you intend to do to take it forward. The fact your've been promoted means they trust and believe in you, so prove it and earn that extra .5%. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 So you got a 10% bonus for a lot of hard work and 2.5% pay increase, not bad, I know people who haven't had a rise for 4 years and asked to do more so in that respect you've done quite well. If, however, you have been asked to take on a lot more responsibility then maybe not such a good deal, your call really if you feel you have been shafted then have a quiet word with your boss and see what the reaction is. They maybe testing you out and if you let this one go then they'll maybe see that as "weakness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Are you paid well for your industry anyway? Personally my last payrise was 2008 but then I am in the financial services industry (specifically sub prime mortgages) and still paid pre-recession wages. My overarching thought is that you should be paid a good bonus for a good years profits (10% seems a little skinny for huge profits but depends how many people you're paying the bonus too). Payrise is permenant.......that means next year if you have a crap year and everyone had a 7.5 or 10% payrise you've just increased your cost base by 7.5% but your profits are back down the shitter. Pull in profits like that for 2 or 3 years then yes you can evidence that you've got a stable profit base and can afford to give better payrises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 You did well, so I would shut up about it TBH. At least you've had two raises in two years. Come next April, we will have had one below inflation rise in four years, and that's in a supposed growth industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhide Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Also not to forget the tax free earnings limit went up last month to £9k something so you should be taking home a bit more month on month this year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 You've received a bonus, what % of your earnings was your bonus if you don't mind? 10% was the bonus. I would say on the whole the company is very good, it just feels as someone who is young (27) and very career minded that I would expect ever year to go up a step. And I really felt from all the talk the company gave at the end of the year we would be seeing at least a 5% increase possibly up to 10% + In a previous company in the same industry I was seeing that kind of increase yearly. I also 100% agree with everyone that I know people haven't had increases and lost jobs - but I always get the impression that is from companies that are either not doing well, or preparing not to. Or from public sector roles. Not companies posting massive profits. I would say the company pays poorly for the role, I am doing now (I was approached a month or so ago for a very similar role that is paying over 25% more) I'm young and appreciate I have a lot to learn I just feel really let down i guess, and i know money isn't everything, but I'm sat here with my spreadsheet out and at 3% every year I can't help but feel would i be a fool to not take up a role that is paying alot more for the same role, in equally as good a company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobears Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 It's a difficult question to answer Maybe you could mention it to your boss without making too much of an issue of it, more just to get your thoughts on record so to speak? I think a lot of people are in the same boat as you or in an even worse situation as you doubtless know. No easy answer to pay issues in this economic climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 You did well, so I would shut up about it TBH. At least you've had two raises in two years. Come next April, we will have had one below inflation rise in four years, and that's in a supposed growth industry. Thats interesting maybe I am being spoilt, is your company itself doing well. I know i would 100% look at moving if i didnt have a pay rise based off my working career so far... Also not to forget the tax free earnings limit went up last month to £9k something so you should be taking home a bit more month on month this year as well. I didnt know that actually interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhide Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) You've received a bonus, what % of your earnings was your bonus if you don't mind? I would say the company pays poorly for the role, I am doing now (I was approached a month or so ago for a very similar role that is paying over 25% more) In that case find another job, and once accepted you have the playing cards in your hands to go back to your current employer and show them that you've been offered the same job with a higher salary and put the ball in their court, it's risky but could pay off but ultimately you've got a backup plan. Edited May 23, 2013 by ironhide 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 It's a difficult question to answer Maybe you could mention it to your boss without making too much of an issue of it, more just to get your thoughts on record so to speak? I think a lot of people are in the same boat as you or in an even worse situation as you doubtless know. No easy answer to pay issues in this economic climate. Yeah its really tough, like I said I have never discussed pay or winged about it at work at all. Its made more tough by the fact that obviously you cant speak to colleagues to get their advice, so I'm really grateful for everyone's here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhide Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Also not to forget the tax free earnings limit went up last month to £9k something so you should be taking home a bit more month on month this year as well. I didnt know that actually interesting. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/personal-allow.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Could you get more elsewhere? Can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Could you get more elsewhere? Can you? Yes, I have been approached for similar roles offering around 25% more. (I dont really want to leave as I like the company, and people. Traditionally the company does also not increase peoples pay because they are threatening to leave (or so i have been told from a friend who did leave)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) If you expect great payrises every year for the rest of your life....what salary will you end up on? As your young, it will feel great to get promotion and so on....but as you get older, these tend to tail off. IMO you've done well. If you feel hard done too....raise the matter with your boss. Just be sure not to ask for too much.....in this climate there may be many who will replace you at your pre bonus pay!!! And remember ...the grass is always greener. If someone was offering me 25% more I'd be off in a shot. Edited May 23, 2013 by aidan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 If I could get 25% more elsewhere, I'd be off like a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo-ninja Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 If I could get 25% more elsewhere, I'd be off like a shot. Maybe that answers my question then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 You did well, so I would shut up about it TBH. At least you've had two raises in two years. Come next April, we will have had one below inflation rise in four years, and that's in a supposed growth industry. Thats interesting maybe I am being spoilt, is your company itself doing well. I know i would 100% look at moving if i didnt have a pay rise based off my working career so far... They're doing ok, getting rid of some dead wood this year though, orders have levelled off a bit so quite a few project depts getting slimmed down. Would probably agree with Dan though that if you could get 25% more somewhere else I'd seriously think about it. I've taken a slightly different tack with my job in that I get reasonable money but loads of time off so can't really complain about pay too much, as it's not a top priority for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 If the company has had a good fiscal year, you may find that they've reinvested funds back into the company, so may not have the extra capital to give the pay rises that they have the previous year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 If you've got enough to live on and have some disposable plus the added bonus of working somewhere you like the people, then happy days. Don't underestimate how much better you feel going in on Monday AM to see people you like, and working for people who value you, than you would feel going in for a few quid more but with less of a happy workplace. I've worked in a few places and had both ends of the spectrum in terms of happy workplace - so long as you are doing well enough to have a decent lifestyle, working with people you respect and like, and particularly who respect and like you is worth a good few grand a year. IMHO. If you can talk to your boss straight up without any melodrama or ultimatums then I don't see why they wouldn't be reasonable with you. The money might not be there but I don't know why they wouldn't discuss things in an open way. Even if they say no, ask for specific measurable things you could do to improve your chances next year, then go out and smash those targets. Only the very worst places will go back on a promise which you can say you've delivered on. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Peronsally I think you sound a touch greedy - the salary was obviously enough a couple of years ago for you to take the job, and 5% of payrise and a 10% bonus is bloody good anywhere at the moment However, Id add that very few people get rises without asking for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Go chase the money, if needed they can put it in a second coffin and bury it with you when you die 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 As others say, it is hard to have sympathy with you when I know so many who haven't seen a pay rise in years, so effectively a % decrease with inflation and they have been working their ar$es off. And when you also know there is better elsewhere, if money is your driving force.......... But on the other hand I sense there is something more to what you are saying. Maybe it is along the line of my concerns that those running businesses, and indeed public services these days, are both creaming off rewards and covering themselves very nicely when they leave (and that is whether that be their choice or otherwise) that bear no relationship to either their workforces' pay and conditions, or the fact so many ordinary people are caught by the recession and seeing their lifestyles going downhill. The increasing pay gaps between the workforce and the small minority at the top who are able to build up substantial funds/investments that allow them to retire early and disproportionally enhance their retirement fund, often still taking a state pension, is something that continues to sicken me. And that is before I get started on what the banking industry, aided and abetted by weak government and back scratching, have done to this country (and the world), all down to greed for a small minority some of whom have been found to be either inept of just plain corrupt. Far too much inequality through the 'pay' scale range going in my view, in whatever form that 'pay' is taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 As others say, it is hard to have sympathy with you when I know so many who haven't seen a pay rise in years, so effectively a % decrease with inflation and they have been working their ar$es off. And when you also know there is better elsewhere, if money is your driving force.......... But on the other hand I sense there is something more to what you are saying. Maybe it is along the line of my concerns that those running businesses, and indeed public services these days, are both creaming off rewards and covering themselves very nicely when they leave (and that is whether that be their choice or otherwise) that bear no relationship to either their workforces' pay and conditions, or the fact so many ordinary people are caught by the recession and seeing their lifestyles going downhill. The increasing pay gaps between the workforce and the small minority at the top who are able to build up substantial funds/investments that allow them to retire early and disproportionally enhance their retirement fund, often still taking a state pension, is something that continues to sicken me. And that is before I get started on what the banking industry, aided and abetted by weak government and back scratching, have done to this country (and the world), all down to greed for a small minority some of whom have been found to be either inept of just plain corrupt. Far too much inequality through the 'pay' scale range going in my view, in whatever form that 'pay' is taken. I do agree with what you're saying but in this case specifically I'm struggling to see the prudence in offering 7.5-10% payrises where a company has made a loss one year and massive profit the next. There's no proven stability and therefore bumping the static cost base up by a significant amount is in my mind quite a poor choice. Maybe for a few outperforming individuals there should be a touch more than the boggo cost of living rise but ultimately a single year of profit should be rewarded with a single year of reward (bonus). Long term profit and stable profits should be rewarded with restructured payscales. IMHO anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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