jell36 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Hi all, a quick question that I'm hoping someone can explain the answer to me about. I have DBA T3's, Ferodo DS2500 pads, HKS brake lnies and run Motul RBF 600 fluid. The fluid is about 8 months old and I have had the brakes bled 3 times (twice by a local garage and once more by a forum trader). My question is, can I improve the feel of my brake pedal? The reason I ask is because I have always found my brake pedal to be quite spongy since this brake set up was fitted. I was assured that it was fine and normal and to date I have lived with it. However when driving around Wales this weekend, as my brakes got up to temperature, they felt amazing. The pedal really firmed up well and the stopping power was immense. Now the stopping power I expect to imporve as the discs and pads heat up and that's fine but I expected the pedal firmness to remain the same but honestly it improved massively until I let the car cool down and then they are spongy again. So is there possibly anything wrong with my brakes that would cause a spongy pedal when cold and a solid pedal when hot? Also when I say spongy brakes, i don't mean to the floor or anything, just about 0.5 inch of spongyness that I can press and release. Oh and one last thing, does everyone else find that there is a bit of play in the brake pedal i.e you there's a little bit of movement bfore the brakes engage and even when your pressing the brakes you can sort of lift your foot slightly and fell a bit of play if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 hi. I'm not an expert but I've had the same issue with that little bit of give in the pedal the first time it's pushed. then everything is fine. if you come off the brakes and straight back on then the play isn't there and it's straight on the brakes. I'm talking play of around half an inch max I guess. just changed the brake fluid today as well and it's still the same with that initial play. so that's two of us. anyone else know what it might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I'm pretty sure that how the Brembos should feel. They are progressive, rather than 0 or 100% on with other cars I have driven, the Brembos you can feel and choose how much you want to use the brakes. Either that or we all have air in them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jell36 Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 yeah but that's the thing, when they were hot and the pedal was firm, the brakes were very progressive and predictable but when they are cold they feel very vague and squidgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I think that is just how they are... personally I like them this way, so when you are cruising around you don't end up bouncing around but when you push it a bit they firm up.... The brakes on my Leon are total opposite, they are either off or on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Exactly! I hate the on off brakes in other cars. I jump into the other halfs one series or my dads new Astra estate thing and I nearly go through the windscreen at every junction or traffic lights! Edited May 27, 2013 by KyleR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Exactly! I hate the on off brakes in other cars. I jump into the other halfs one series or my dads new Astra estate thing and I nearly go through the windscreen at every junction or traffic lights! Yep much prefer the more progressive brakes in the Zed although at one point in Wales I nearly rear ended Straun Braking.... Braking quite firmly.... HOLY $HIT....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Exactly! I hate the on off brakes in other cars. I jump into the other halfs one series or my dads new Astra estate thing and I nearly go through the windscreen at every junction or traffic lights! Yep much prefer the more progressive brakes in the Zed although at one point in Wales I nearly rear ended Straun Braking.... Braking quite firmly.... HOLY $HIT....... he pebble dashed my front as well - he likes his brakes does our chicken friend (still only kidding struan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 My brakes are exactly the same mate. Very progressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Exactly! I hate the on off brakes in other cars. I jump into the other halfs one series or my dads new Astra estate thing and I nearly go through the windscreen at every junction or traffic lights! Yep much prefer the more progressive brakes in the Zed although at one point in Wales I nearly rear ended Straun Braking.... Braking quite firmly.... HOLY $HIT....... he pebble dashed my front as well - he likes his brakes does our chicken friend (still only kidding struan) It was when we were driving around in town on the way friday, I was daydreaming Oh that's a pretty girl over there.... Ahhhhh where did that red Zed come from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 :lol: i have a permanently bruised left arm from doing things like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjt Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Does everyone else find that you can almost 'prime' the brakes, i.e. if you depress them a little bit, then let off, then get on the brakes again the brake pedal feels firmer, with a higher biting point? or is this just air in mine ha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 that's exactly the sensation I get with my brakes. almost like priming them. only a very small initial push though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jell36 Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 Does everyone else find that you can almost 'prime' the brakes, i.e. if you depress them a little bit, then let off, then get on the brakes again the brake pedal feels firmer, with a higher biting point? or is this just air in mine ha That could be pad knock if it mainly happens after cornering. The pedal feel I have, remains consistant except with brake temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) if it's only with temps I'd have guessed at the fluid. but then you have the motul stuff Edited May 27, 2013 by wizurd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jell36 Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 Yeah, I thought about fluid but as you say, it's Motul so should be good. I'm hoping to get booked in with Abbey soon so I will see what they think and then change the fluid again if they think it will improve the pedal feel. At least, after Wales, I now know that the ferodos and DBA discs work fantasticaly, just takes a bit to get them up to a good working temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjt Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 That could be pad knock if it mainly happens after cornering. The pedal feel I have, remains consistant except with brake temperatures. Nope, every time. Motul is so cheap at Opie at the moment its getting done i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I call it the "double tap". Turns the progressiveness into an anchor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I've used the double tap technique for years having had 2 catastrophic high speed (70 mph) brake failures many years ago. It's more of a confidence tap than anything else, you know, just to make sure the brakes are still working but I do think it gives it a higher biting point. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 It's as if the first touch lifts the anchor, the second launches it at the nearest tree lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Bit of a thread revival, but I'm glad it's not just me that feels the need to double-tap the brake pedal if I really want the brakes sharp. I'll give them a bleed (if it ever stops raining!) and see if that improves things, but by the sound of it that's just the way these cars are... There are a few comments around saying "that's just how Brembo brakes are", but I had 4-pot Brembo's on my Evo and they never needed a double tap ever. As for the cause; any ideas? I guess the pistons suck too far back in to the caliper, so it takes the first tap to push them out a bit, and the second tap to really push the pad hard on to the disk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Not sure but let us know how it goes once your bled them. I'm gonna try mine again but if you're gonna try I'll wait and see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-monster Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Glad I'm not the only one with this - running OEM discs, lines and fluid and Yellowstuff pads. Took trip to dealer to bleed brakes after changing pads, didn't feel great so, trip to an independent, still not great and back to dealer to get more pedal "hardness", which I eventually got. I swear before I changed the pads the brakes were either on/off, very hard and reassuring. The HPS at the dealership said that as the Brembos are a 4-pot system, all the "movements of parts are magnified" so the larger the movement of the pistons, the larger the depression it will take in the pedal. It would be interesting to see if anyone with an OEM set-up on the brembos has a bit of prime-movement in the pedal. This was back in June, and I've gotten use to the new very "progressive" nature of my current set up, which doesn't mean I like it, but I understand that it does help greatly with trailbraking, allows me to softly apply the brakes given their new hardcore nature. Priming the brakes does indeed make a massive difference, although given that the distance that the pedal has to make to prime the brakes is 1/2 an inch, this means your foot actually moves 1.5 inches to apply full braking pressure if you include the priming "blip" - not ideal in my eyes. I think pad material has a lot to answer for. Although if the car has been sitting for five days, the pedal feels firmer - maybe that's me getting used to the car again of the fluid being cold and therefore harder to move around the system...? Considering some new Discs and DS2500s soon so we'll see if that makes any difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I find this when driving on the road, but when on track, and everything is up to temperature, its rock solid from the start, so maybe its just a temp issue. i run DBD slotted discs and DS2500 pads. However, i initially had a really soft pedal after having some braided lines fitted, they bled the brakes a few times, and it didnt improve. Went for an MOT a few weeks later, and the tester found that one of the lines was loose on the caliper, and needed tightening up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-monster Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 the tester found that one of the lines was loose on the caliper, and needed tightening up Reassuring! Did the feel improve after the line was tightened? Its going in for a service soon anyway so I'll specify that point. Temperature must make a difference to the fluid given heat expansion. You're right - on track its fantastic - few signs of what I would consider brake fade - Heat dispersion is more the issue it seems. Cool down is essential however! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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