stuarty Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Intresting read! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20042070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianphampton Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Perfectly reasonable for the Scots to have the oil and all the revenues from it . . . . . . . . . . . . . .provided they don't get any other subsidy from England after 2014. You earn it - you spend it however you wish. If you want free prescription, free university education, that's absolutely fine - provided you're earning the revenue to pay for it all. Just don't spend MY tax money in Scotland, if you're an independent country. If you're still part of the UK, then all revenues go into the one exchequer and we all pay our share and it's spent where it's needed - but if you're in your own country, don't freeload on my dime (Waits for ban . . . .also expects to have a . . .'full and frank discussion' in the car park in Wales . . . ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 Perfectly reasonable for the Scots to have the oil and all the revenues from it . . . . . . . . . . . . . .provided they don't get any other subsidy from England after 2014. You earn it - you spend it however you wish. If you want free prescription, free university education, that's absolutely fine - provided you're earning the revenue to pay for it all. Just don't spend MY tax money in Scotland, if you're an independent country. If you're still part of the UK, then all revenues go into the one exchequer and we all pay our share and it's spent where it's needed - but if you're in your own country, don't freeload on my dime (Waits for ban . . . .also expects to have a . . .'full and frank discussion' in the car park in Wales . . . ) I cant argue with you either way mate. I only posted this to get some unbiased info on the matter. I hate politics and politicians (there no. 3 on my most hated list). But as this referendum approaches i feel that i should find out as much as possible before i vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 It's fairly clear to me that this is geographically Scotland's oil, however, any future Independent Scotland will have to negotiate the boundaries with Westminster so there's a fair settlement. If the vote is for an Independent Scotland then I'd expect the Westminster government to use as many delaying tactics as possible to hang on to the oil revenue for as long as it can. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJRFulton Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) As a Scotsman, owning a business, trading in Scotland, England and Wales..... Independence would be a disaster for me. I would move my business out of Scotland, due to it being easier to operate between England and Wales. Not that I get a vote on my countries future (as I am committed via work to being in Wales for the next couple of years), despite paying all my tax to a Scottish tax office.... something I am quite miffed about! Edited April 17, 2013 by Badgeronimous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mcgoo Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't confess to know enough about the whole subject to give a confident opinion. However, I work on oil rigs with a large majority of Scots. Speaking to them (well the more educated ones) they are not looking forward to this referendum at all, especially now the teenagers are aloud the vote. You can predict how it'll go.....every night for a week before the vote - Braveheart on TV , painted faces everywhere and a vote for independence . I don't think it'll be a good thing. And what about in 60 years when all the oil has gone and Scotland has to rely on fishing and tourism? become British again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Fair play, if the oil's up there, it's Scotland's. Not quite sure how extracting the oil fits in with the relatively high profile green policies that Salmond has been peddling, but he's not the first politician to be a hypocrite, he won't be the last either. What I don't understand why Wales, England & NI don't get to vote too. The vote is to dissolve the union, it's all our union as much as it is Scotland's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWTech Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 im in a grey area at the moment myself. i am taking in what both sides are saying, but with the supporters of independance here, some of the posters being fired around online and facebook etc are just usual bullshit complaining about the current situation, cameron this cameron that, so far anyways, i have not see someone sit down properly and put some hard factual figures on the table. still a bit of the ol william wallace and the old enemy inside a lot of twats here. and yeah, as said above, it will be the usual nonsense, playing braveheart week in week out, the tartan hats with ginger hair attached and all the other steriotypical tacky stuff on display. and especially with young folk who really dont have a scooby whats going on outside their estate, nevermind in the country being allowed to vote, it is worrying. im still going to continue sitting on neutral ground for now, iv not been shown anything so far thats got me changing the current way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan221 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 It's a big no to seperation from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 I don't confess to know enough about the whole subject to give a confident opinion. However, I work on oil rigs with a large majority of Scots. Speaking to them (well the more educated ones) they are not looking forward to this referendum at all, especially now the teenagers are aloud the vote. You can predict how it'll go.....every night for a week before the vote - Braveheart on TV , painted faces everywhere and a vote for independence . I don't think it'll be a good thing. And what about in 60 years when all the oil has gone and Scotland has to rely on fishing and tourism? become British again?? No offence, but in 60 years when the oil has gone, we will be in the same position as England and wales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've got an old guy who used to live beside me on Facebook as a friend. He constantly posts picture's that are suppose to inspire people to vote for independency, you all know the sort. Problem is this guy emigrated to the US years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've got an old guy who used to live beside me on Facebook as a friend. He constantly posts picture's that are suppose to inspire people to vote for independency, you all know the sort. Problem is this guy emigrated to the US years ago! Not Sean Connery is it . Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 I've got an old guy who used to live beside me on Facebook as a friend. He constantly posts picture's that are suppose to inspire people to vote for independency, you all know the sort. Problem is this guy emigrated to the US years ago! Not Sean Connery is it . Pete He's worse! Cant understand folk who rant and rave about how much they love Scotland, but stay elsewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I work up on the Forth and have discussed the independence issue at length with many people who are entitled to vote. As yet I have not found one who wants independance. Admittedly the profile of these people is pretty similar, professional people with reasonable incomes. Regarding the oil I think there is one point which is very important to understand. With the ownership of the oil comes a big price. Scotland would have to take their portion of the national dept onboard. This would obviously be a large amount to service. Personally Scotland being independent would suit me fine as I would no longer have to pay income tax anywhere. From Scotlands point of view I cant see any reason why they would benefit other than being the lord of their own demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 No offence, but in 60 years when the oil has gone, we will be in the same position as England and wales! But Wales is propped up heavily by England, who have London which is one of the biggest financial capitals in the world and brings in billions. Scotland has nothing like that. England would be much better off on its own, however I'd much rather we stayed together as a unique union. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm Scottish and I work in oil. It doesn't matter who it belongs to, the ship for cashing in on it properly has well and truely sailed. If Scotland had become indepandant 50 years ago and had (crucially) managed it properly, then we would be in a similar state to Norway - huge oil revenue, companies all asking "how high" when told to jump and a massive pot of money there for the people. As it is, there are plenty of companies who could take or leave north sea oil - granted, the big developments like BP Quad will still go ahead, but companies like Apache are built around running a tight ship and making a profit on tight margins - pump them for money and they will leave. The idea that there is a global shortage of oil is nonsense - there is however going to be a point where oil is much less economical to recover. I have yet to hear one good argument for Scotland going it alone - "Scotland will be in charge of its own destiny" is what the Salmond lot trot out - destiny isn't going to pay my mortgage. I am genuinley scared of what will happen next year - evey intelligent, contributing member of society I have spoken to (I'm talking everything from taxi drivers to fairly senior guys in big O&G companies) is dead against it, but there are two many who will be swayed by the "braveheart" approach. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 London which is one of the biggest financial capitals in the world and brings in billions. Scotland has nothing like that. You do know this topic is about oil? You have heard of Aberdeen, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Sorry, I don't understand your point. I wasn't aware that Aberdeen was a massive financial institution. The topic seems to be as much about Scotland's independance as its oil. My comment was a reply on what Stuarty said, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm for independence from north of Montrose. They can keep the oil but above that they are all chooktere. Aberdeen has a lot of money. Shane only it's full of rich country bumpkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 But as this referendum approaches i feel that i should find out as much as possible before i vote! This is the worrying bit, as far as I can see yer man Salmond hasnt actually laid down any information on what he will do for GDP's, finance, law, defence, justice, welfare or health, he just seems to be appealing to the Nationalistic spirit (which the Scots should be very proud of BTW), AFAIK without oil your two biggest exports are mineral water and whisky, not really a basis for a global player's economy ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Good night out, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) But as this referendum approaches i feel that i should find out as much as possible before i vote! This is the worrying bit, as far as I can see yer man Salmond hasnt actually laid down any information on what he will do for GDP's, finance, law, defence, justice, welfare or health, he just seems to be appealing to the Nationalistic spirit (which the Scots should be very proud of BTW), AFAIK without oil your two biggest exports are mineral water and whisky, not really a basis for a global player's economy ........ Agree, i'm waiting patiently on his manifest for independence. I've got lots of questions i need answered. BUT folk south of the border dont help, with there comments like. "London props up Scotland/Wales" etc. The investments that are made in London are funded from all sorts of sources including Scottish and welsh investers! I really cant see why certain folk think that England subsidise the rest of the UK. From the top to it's bottom the UK is very, very similar irrespective of what part your in. Some bad parts, some good. The city of London have to remember that there investing on behalf of all of the UK, not just England! Furthermore, Scotland is as wealthy as England, pro rata! Edited April 17, 2013 by stuarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Yep, looked at the figures and broadly speaking tax income and expenditure are similar all over the UK. However, the bit I think thats being missed is the cost of implementation of all of the services that are taken for granted at the moment, with no existing cash - I wouldnt fancy setting up my own tax offices, inspectors, reporting systems and then enforcement and thats just a tiny part of whats going to be needed. To go it alone when things are on the up is questionable, but to go it alone in the middle of a global recession is economic suicide IMO .......... and there isnt going to be any safety net this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Yep, looked at the figures and broadly speaking tax income and expenditure are similar all over the UK. However, the bit I think thats being missed is the cost of implementation of all of the services that are taken for granted at the moment, with no existing cash - I wouldnt fancy setting up my own tax offices, inspectors, reporting systems and then enforcement and thats just a tiny part of whats going to be needed. To go it alone when things are on the up is questionable, but to go it alone in the middle of a global recession is economic suicide IMO .......... and there isnt going to be any safety net this time. Yeah, but as we would be responsible for our share of the nations debt we would also be entitled to our share of it's assets!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Yep, looked at the figures and broadly speaking tax income and expenditure are similar all over the UK. However, the bit I think thats being missed is the cost of implementation of all of the services that are taken for granted at the moment, with no existing cash - I wouldnt fancy setting up my own tax offices, inspectors, reporting systems and then enforcement and thats just a tiny part of whats going to be needed. To go it alone when things are on the up is questionable, but to go it alone in the middle of a global recession is economic suicide IMO .......... and there isnt going to be any safety net this time. Yeah, but as we would be responsible for our share of the nations debt we would also be entitled to our share of it's assets!! Have we got any left? I think Scotland's economy of oil, whiskey, beef and Glasgow, Edinburgh & Aberdeen is pretty promising. We don't make or export dick anymore on a large scale in England, and building an economy on the finance houses of London has worked out really well for the UK so far! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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