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Did you see


Harryjax

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Did you see Panorama tonight.

About the highly trained AFGANISTAN NATIONAL ARMY and the local Police corruption and practices.

Not really any different from the Taliban.

And to think what will happen when all the NATO troops have been withdrawn and the ANA take over the security for the whole AFGANISTAN nation. It will become a far worst place.

A massive training and recruiting ground for terrorism. "Watch this space".

 

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I have a friend who has done a few tours of Afgan, he said they were downright useless - and one thing he always talks about that is really sick and scary is that on Fridays (could be wrong about the day) the Afgan army get in to their compounds lots of young boys for extracurricular activities!

 

The British troops don't stop them and turn a blind eye as its just easier to let it happen then not. But apparently is a very common practise.

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At least this is the first time that a middle eastern countries army has been armed to the teeth by an allied force who then **** off and leave them to their own devices........at least this hasnt happened time after pissing time, i mean that would be both frustrating a bloody stupid.

 

Whilst we're on the subject where did the taliban get funding, training and weapons?.....ahhh thats right......the yanks in the 80's

 

But at least the yanks didnt also support the Hussain regime......ah actually no they did that as well didnt they back in the 70's & 80's (to the tune of 40 billion).

 

 

At least after all that no valuable or costly lessons have been missed :wacko:

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At least this is the first time that a middle eastern countries army has been armed to the teeth by an allied force who then **** off and leave them to their own devices........at least this hasnt happened time after pissing time, i mean that would be both frustrating a bloody stupid.

 

Whilst we're on the subject where did the taliban get funding, training and weapons?.....ahhh thats right......the yanks in the 80's

 

But at least the yanks didnt also support the Hussain regime......ah actually no they did that as well didnt they back in the 70's & 80's (to the tune of 40 billion).

 

 

At least after all that no valuable or costly lessons have been missed :wacko:

 

Spot on !

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Corruption aside, I was shocked at how uncoordinated the police were.

I've seen primary school kids with better discipline and coordination :surrender:

 

That's because primary school kids aren't high on opium. Well not all of them anyway.

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Dont forget they cannot either read or write...and we give them guns, and tell them to behave, and be nice to each other...!!

 

WTF...They are Tribes who have been always at war with each other...and we are the BONUS..because we have

 

given them 20th century arms...If only you know how much they hate the West...! :cloud9:

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We were also a tribal nation. We grew and learnt. Why shouldn't we help out if possible?

 

If you start it, you have to finish it, however long and however much money it takes. If you don't, then as pointed out you're back at square one. All the hand wringers who think we should never have gone there in the first place and should get out ASAP might well want to consider that.

 

Just because a viewpoint is popular, doesn't make it the correct move.

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We were also a tribal nation. We grew and learnt. Why shouldn't we help out if possible?

 

If you start it, you have to finish it, however long and however much money it takes. If you don't, then as pointed out you're back at square one. All the hand wringers who think we should never have gone there in the first place and should get out ASAP might well want to consider that.

 

Just because a viewpoint is popular, doesn't make it the correct move.

+1 Undoubtedly it is a long and hard road, it's worth trying to remember how steeped in tradition and religion places like Afghanistan are and therefore by "western world" standards they can be viewed as out of step with us.

 

It is hard for countries to "grow up" and shake off long standing traditions and practices that others regard as unacceptable. I like to put it into perspective by remembering that it wasn't that long ago that females in this country were subjugated because it was believed that was correct. Add religion/beliefs into the mix and it will never be a quick fix.

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We were also a tribal nation. We grew and learnt. Why shouldn't we help out if possible?

 

If you start it, you have to finish it, however long and however much money it takes. If you don't, then as pointed out you're back at square one. All the hand wringers who think we should never have gone there in the first place and should get out ASAP might well want to consider that.

 

Just because a viewpoint is popular, doesn't make it the correct move.

+1 Undoubtedly it is a long and hard road, it's worth trying to remember how steeped in tradition and religion places like Afghanistan are and therefore by "western world" standards they can be viewed as out of step with us.

 

It is hard for countries to "grow up" and shake off long standing traditions and practices that others regard as unacceptable. I like to put it into perspective by remembering that it wasn't that long ago that females in this country were subjugated because it was believed that was correct. Add religion/beliefs into the mix and it will never be a quick fix.

 

That's true but we need to be careful not to allow religion and tradition to be used as excuses for morally wrong acts (I'm not saying you are doing that). Having watched a story this morning about a girl who had her nose and ears cut off for running away from an abusive husband (and let's not forget the girl in Pakistan shot in the head for insisting on going to school) I couldn't care less about the traditional or cultural context of these acts - they are wrong in any country. And on the basis of the what I saw in the Panorama programme, to think that somebody in that girl's position, in a country where domestic violence and corruption is endemic, will very soon only have the Afghan police and army to turn to for help depresses me greatly. Whether it was right or not to be there in the first place, it seems mad to leave them in such an unprepared state to fend for themselves. It feels almost inevitable to me that within a few years of pulling out, the Taliban will be back in control.

Edited by sipar69
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We were also a tribal nation. We grew and learnt. Why shouldn't we help out if possible?

 

If you start it, you have to finish it, however long and however much money it takes. If you don't, then as pointed out you're back at square one. All the hand wringers who think we should never have gone there in the first place and should get out ASAP might well want to consider that.

 

Just because a viewpoint is popular, doesn't make it the correct move.

+1 Undoubtedly it is a long and hard road, it's worth trying to remember how steeped in tradition and religion places like Afghanistan are and therefore by "western world" standards they can be viewed as out of step with us.

 

It is hard for countries to "grow up" and shake off long standing traditions and practices that others regard as unacceptable. I like to put it into perspective by remembering that it wasn't that long ago that females in this country were subjugated because it was believed that was correct. Add religion/beliefs into the mix and it will never be a quick fix.

 

That's true but we need to be careful not to allow religion and tradition to be used as excuses for morally wrong acts (I'm not saying you are doing that). Having watched a story this morning about a girl who had her nose and ears cut off for running away from an abusive husband (and let's not forget the girl in Pakistan shot in the head for insisting on going to school) I couldn't care less about the traditional or cultural context of these acts - they are wrong in any country. And on the basis of the what I saw in the Panorama programme, to think that somebody in that girl's position, in a country where domestic violence and corruption is endemic, will very soon only have the Afghan police and army to turn to for help depresses me greatly. Whether it was right or not to be there in the first place, it seems mad to leave them in such an unprepared state to fend for themselves. It feels almost inevitable to me that within a few years of pulling out, the Taliban will be back in control.

Exactly.
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Problem is Dan you will never ever, evereverever be successful in forcing peace onto an entire culture. As someone said above......this isn't something thats cropped up in the last 10, 20 or 30 years - its THE culture.

 

Some people simply HATE the living guts of others and forcing them to play nice just makes them hate you.

 

Unfortunately you also can't really leave them to their own devices but I genuinely don't see an end to this ever..........well at least one that doesn't have a giant mushroom cloud involved in it

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there was a channel 4 programme about religion on a few years back, aptly titled "the route of all evil"

 

religion has always been there as a method of control, used before laws as we know them existed. if you look up PACE (police and criminal evidence act) it is basically the 10 commandments with a few modern twists.

 

you shall not steal - theft act

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain - public order act

You shall have no other gods before me - misuse of drugs act

etc

 

human beings as a species are always going to be at war and fighting over stuff. it is in our nature to want to control stuff. especially in uncivilised places were education is rare.

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If you start it, you have to finish it, however long and however much money it takes. If you don't, then as pointed out you're back at square one. All the hand wringers who think we should never have gone there in the first place and should get out ASAP might well want to consider that.

 

 

If you really, really want to finish it - I seem to recall it needs about 4Kg of this stuff in each package -

 

http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/pu.html

 

Sprinkle a few of those around and turn the whole place into a sea of fused glass. . . .

 

While you're ai it there's a few other candidates too - like Pyongyang, or Tehran

 

Solves how to get rid of the darn things as Russia can't afford a padlock for the storage bay doors, we might as well get some use out of them rather than just have them all nicked.

 

(Bit of tongue in cheek here - but if you're going to have a discussion, lets include all the options . . . )

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