New engine ideas. Could be very interesting.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

So PSA have come up with a new way to boost engine efficiency.

 

http://www.autoexpre...air-hybrid-tech

 

 

PSA Peugeot Citroen has revealed a new platform and hybrid drivetrain

 

PSA

Peugeot Citroen has revealed details of its new petrol-compressed air hybrid drivetrain alongside a new modular platform.

The hybrid system - which is called Hybrid Air - combines a conventional petrol engine and automatic gearbox with a hydraulic pump and motor that are powered by compressed air.

In the setup shown in a current Citroen C3, the engine, transmission, pump and motor are located in the engine bay, while the compressed air is stored in a tank that runs between the front seats.

The Hybrid Air system can operate in zero emissions air mode, where compressed air is used to drive the hydraulic motor, which then turns the transmission and thus the front wheels. It can also operate in petrol-engine-only mode, or petrol and air in combination.

Like a current petrol-electric hybrid, the drivetrain is electronically controlled and automatically selects the power source most appropriate to the driving conditions. The compressed air tank is refilled by the hydraulic pump under deceleration or braking.

The petrol-compressed air hybrid system will make its debut in a B-segment car in 2016 and, if used in the current Peugeot 208 or Citroen C3, the powertrain returns 97.4mpg and CO2 emissions of 69g/km.

PSA Peugeot Citroen claims that the Hybrid Air drivetrain offers a 45 per cent improvement in fuel economy in urban driving over a conventional petrol engine, thanks to the fact that the air system powers the car between 60 and 80 per cent of the time at speeds below 43mph.

The firm also claims that the Hybrid Air system can extend a car’s range by up to 90 per cent, and gives overall fuel savings of around 35 per cent.

PSA is looking to use the Hybrid Air technology in B-segment cars like the Peugeot 208 and Citroen C3 with an 82bhp petrol engine; and C-segment cars like the Peugoet 308 and Citroen C4 with a 110bhp petrol engine. The arrival of the new tech marks a step forward in the firm's goal of developing and marketing a 2l/100km (141.2mpg) car by 2020.

PSA Peugeot Citroen also showed its new EMP2 platform. Short for Efficient Modular Platform 2 and similar in concept to the VW Group’s new MQB setup, the new underpinnings can be used for hatchback, saloon, coupe, convertible, estate, MPV and SUV bodystyles. The C and D-segment platform is set to be used for around 50 per cent of PSA’s cars, but will be used first for the new Citroen C4 Picasso and Peugeot 308.

PSA claims that the new EMP2 is up to 70kg lighter than the platforms it replaces, and will help to cut CO2 emissions by up to 22 per cent.

Edited January 24, 2013 by The Bounty Bar Kid

[Flex]

All these developments take too long, can't help but feel the fuel companies slow down the development of such technologies.

 

Even if fuel efficiency doubles, so to will the price of fuel so financially we'll probably be about the same overall.

[CrumbMC]

u guys remember the clapped out shed you had for your first car? most likely had rust holes and if it was french, the chances are that most of it didn't work properly.

 

I do worry what is going to happen to all these hybrid/compressed air powered cars when they reach their latter years. surely if someone is driving round with enough compressed air to power a car there will have to be some kind of compulsory maintainence.

 

It's a good idea though.

[rtbiscuit]

there is another system in development which is a replacement fuel. it basically takes microscopic polymer balls impregnated with hydrogen. the balls are so small it looks like a liquid, and would burn in a petrol engine whick wold only need minor modifications to run on it.

[CrumbMC]

there is another system in development which is a replacement fuel. it basically takes microscopic polymer balls impregnated with hydrogen. the balls are so small it looks like a liquid, and would burn in a petrol engine whick wold only need minor modifications to run on it.

 

Sounds like the fuel would cost a bomb though. First the hydrogen would have to be processed (which is very expensive.) Then they would have to pay a load of workers with syringes to inject their balls with it.

Edited January 24, 2013 by CrumbMC

[Dblock]

I have seen ideas which could work. One is a 3 cylinder engine. 2 of the cylinders are normal but they exhaust into the third cylinder where the hot air expanded and gives you a power cycle.

 

Another is the 6 stroke engine. Same as a 4 stroke but it injects water whilst it's still hot. Water expandes and give you another power cycle.

[Dblock]

there is another system in development which is a replacement fuel. it basically takes microscopic polymer balls impregnated with hydrogen. the balls are so small it looks like a liquid, and would burn in a petrol engine whick wold only need minor modifications to run on it.

 

Sounds like the fuel would cost a bomb though. First the hydrogen would have to be processed (which is very expensive.) Then they would have to pay a load of workers with syringes to inject their balls with it.

 

I thought you could just get hydrogen from electrolysis?

[CrumbMC]

there is another system in development which is a replacement fuel. it basically takes microscopic polymer balls impregnated with hydrogen. the balls are so small it looks like a liquid, and would burn in a petrol engine whick wold only need minor modifications to run on it.

 

Sounds like the fuel would cost a bomb though. First the hydrogen would have to be processed (which is very expensive.) Then they would have to pay a load of workers with syringes to inject their balls with it.

 

I thought you could just get hydrogen from electrolysis?

 

Sorry, I didn't mean expensive. I meant it uses more energy than you get out of the hydrogen from burning it in an engine

[Dblock]

At the moment yeah but no doubt in time that would change. Look at the Americans 40years ago or today I suppose with their 5.xx litre engines making 150bhp.

[Flex]

Then they would have to pay a load of workers with syringes to inject their balls with it.

 

[CrumbMC]

At the moment yeah but no doubt in time that would change.

 

Hydrogen is a very small particle therefore getting it to be a lone particle or to react requires the input (electrolysis) or output (BANG) of a lot of energy (respectively). i don't think it is chemically possible to make electrolysis use less energy than it will produce from combusting as it is essentially the opposite prosess. and it will always have a bit of energy loss either way from inefficiency etc (e.g noise and heat from the reaction bla bla bla)

 

I think this is why we haven't heard about too many hydrogen powered cars recently.

Edited January 24, 2013 by CrumbMC

[Dblock]

Your right but if hydrogen was being used in a lot of cars then we could make it on the cheap. Solar in hot places and the advancement of them trying to use more of the light spectrum for energy? Wind farms and IMO the cheapest would be liquid floride thorium nuclear reactors.

[Allan Zada]

I did speak to some one in the industry about hybrid cars and he seamed quite sure that hybrids were only a stop gap and that hydrogen would replace the traditional engine completely, but not for 40 years or so.