glrnet Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalos Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 . And I'll never understand why their prices were so much more in store than online and they why they wouldn't match it. Costs a fortune in rent and business rates in huge shops like HMV. Not really a shock though, albums sales including downloads have plummeted from the heydays of the 70's and early 80's, there used to be at least 4 independent record shops in Chester plus an HMV and Virgin in the early 80's, now they've all gone. The downfall began when they stopped making vinyl, half the fun was admiring the art on the album sleeve, CD's are just so impersonal. Pete As someone who has the costs of rent and rates coming off my bottom line, I do realise this, but my point was the fact they encourage customers to shop online with this policy. We match our online prices which gets customers into the stores as hopefully they prefer the experience of one to one service. Also, they will hopefully see something else they like, whether to purchase straight away or in the future. Their free delivery policy, albeit a correct policy, costs them a fortune. They should have matched their online price to dicourage their customers from buying from their online store. You're right about the failing/changing market, they should have reduced the number of stores they have and really pushed the download market more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think obviously price is the main point where they go wrong but they could be more expensive and get away with it if they where specialists or the service was fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Now HMV are gone, where are all the hip chavsters going to buy their Beats By Dre headphones from??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Now HMV are gone, where are all the hip chavsters going to buy their Beats By Dre headphones from??!! Easy to make your own... Edited January 15, 2013 by spursmaddave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalos Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 ...or buy copies from Deirdre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 . And I'll never understand why their prices were so much more in store than online and they why they wouldn't match it. Costs a fortune in rent and business rates in huge shops like HMV. Not really a shock though, albums sales including downloads have plummeted from the heydays of the 70's and early 80's, there used to be at least 4 independent record shops in Chester plus an HMV and Virgin in the early 80's, now they've all gone. The downfall began when they stopped making vinyl, half the fun was admiring the art on the album sleeve, CD's are just so impersonal. Pete As someone who has the costs of rent and rates coming off my bottom line, I do realise this, but my point was the fact they encourage customers to shop online with this policy. We match our online prices which gets customers into the stores as hopefully they prefer the experience of one to one service. Also, they will hopefully see something else they like, whether to purchase straight away or in the future. Their free delivery policy, albeit a correct policy, costs them a fortune. They should have matched their online price to dicourage their customers from buying from their online store. You're right about the failing/changing market, they should have reduced the number of stores they have and really pushed the download market more. I think whenever places like this go bust they drag out the "piracy has killed it" or "new media format has killed it" - They have done this for as long as I can remember - certainly when cassette tapes came out and was going to "kill the industry" back in the 80`s with people copying tapes... then people downloading media were next to blame. But, you look at other companies and they are managing just fine. I think its a mega competitive world out there now and margins are slim, so companies just have to cut back as much as they can and try and promote the advantages they have over online retailers - such as the in store experience - being able to take returns back to your local store - get advice face to face etc... Makes you wonder what the high street will look like in a few years time. Will it just be bookmakers and coffee shops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 If the people put the rent down they might get some local companies in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalos Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Allegedly from the window of Jessops in Liverpool...:smile: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 . And I'll never understand why their prices were so much more in store than online and they why they wouldn't match it. Costs a fortune in rent and business rates in huge shops like HMV. Not really a shock though, albums sales including downloads have plummeted from the heydays of the 70's and early 80's, there used to be at least 4 independent record shops in Chester plus an HMV and Virgin in the early 80's, now they've all gone. The downfall began when they stopped making vinyl, half the fun was admiring the art on the album sleeve, CD's are just so impersonal. Pete As someone who has the costs of rent and rates coming off my bottom line, I do realise this, but my point was the fact they encourage customers to shop online with this policy. We match our online prices which gets customers into the stores as hopefully they prefer the experience of one to one service. Also, they will hopefully see something else they like, whether to purchase straight away or in the future. Their free delivery policy, albeit a correct policy, costs them a fortune. They should have matched their online price to dicourage their customers from buying from their online store. You're right about the failing/changing market, they should have reduced the number of stores they have and really pushed the download market more. I don't know where HMV shipped their online purchases from but some companies have or at least had their warehouses in VAT free areas, which I guess would be quite a big saving. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think whenever places like this go bust they drag out the "piracy has killed it" or "new media format has killed it" - They have done this for as long as I can remember - certainly when cassette tapes came out and was going to "kill the industry" back in the 80`s with people copying tapes... then people downloading media were next to blame. But, you look at other companies and they are managing just fine. I think its a mega competitive world out there now and margins are slim, so companies just have to cut back as much as they can and try and promote the advantages they have over online retailers - such as the in store experience - being able to take returns back to your local store - get advice face to face etc... Makes you wonder what the high street will look like in a few years time. Will it just be bookmakers and coffee shops? A few things, first of all piracy started with reel to reel tapes back in the 60's and then moved on to cassette and 8 track in the 70's. The main problem was that the quality was fairly low, not a problem if you weren't serious about your music but any hi-fi buff will tell you that even the most expensive tapes around at that time had hiss and quality loss. They were O.K for playing in your car, although very few cars had anything more than a basic AM/FM receiver. They also had a nasty habit of unspooling themselves or wrapping themselves around the tape heads. Piracy was quite low really, records sold really well and artists and record labels got very rich. Then we moved on to CD's, at first it was very expensive if not impossible to copy a CD but it's pretty easy and cheap now. However I'm in no way convinced that piracy has had that much of an effect on music sales, for me it just boils down to the fact that music these days is just so bland, uninspiring and without any soul or depth. It's more about image than talent and punters in their 20's and 30's , the great record collectors of the past, just aren't buying albums these days. I stopped buying records in the early 90's, there was nothing about to excite me. Next to go on the highstreet will be book shops, some like Borders have already gone and W H Smith is only existing because of the profits it makes from its Airport branches. Next will be the furniture shops , most town and city centres will be unrecognisable in 20 years time. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 No DFS sales 364 days of the year??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It seems HMV do have some profitable shops, mainly the bigger ones in the busier town centres, apparently the administrators have had expressions of interest from 3 private investors already which would indicate that at least a part of the business could be profitable. I still but CD"s and DVD's occasionally but almost always on line and therein lies the problem for a company like HMV that didn't adjust to the market place. Why would I drive to Horsham, my nearest HMV, pay to park, waste an hour and pay over the odds when I an get the same thing on line next day for less money, time and effort? Horsham is not a big town and does not support a huge working population in the centre and hence HMV's problem becomes obvious, locations like London, Manchester etc which by nature support a large captive working audience are more likely to be successful purely on a numbers or foot fall basis. It really amazes me that HMV didn't adjust their business model years ago, maybe things would have been different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It is a fallacy that piracy causes these things.( remember men in boats from years gone bye to date,brandy,fags,drugs anything of value that people want) What man can make man can break and will. The most pirated media in the world................. Microsoft x..y..z.. Don't think they will be going down the pan very soon. As everyone says, it's a case of move or be trampled on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Might have also have helped if certain companies were not allowed to avoid tax and hence drive down prices. Had they been paying taxes from the beginning, they wouldn't have been such a major factor in the online business taking over the store retailers. Not saying that hmv didn't have work to do but it could have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Men and women in high places make laws. Then companies that adhere to those laws get pilloried. Not saying it's right or wrong but when the people who make the laws say companies are wrong or immoral for sticking to the law. It pees me off. YOU MADE THE BLOODY LAW....... admit it you F*** up......... The fact is, the people in high places who say Ya or Na to laws we have,ain't clever enough. Could they earn that salary in "the real world" or command the respect ? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Exactly. If you leave a loophole, expect it to be exploited. I'm just annoyed that we don't have a big enough company and that there's not a lot for us to exploit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Men and women in high places make laws. Then companies that adhere to those laws get pilloried. Not saying it's right or wrong but when the people who make the laws say companies are wrong or immoral for sticking to the law. It pees me off. YOU MADE THE BLOODY LAW....... admit it you F*** up......... The fact is, the people in high places who say Ya or Na to laws we have,ain't clever enough. Could they earn that salary in "the real world" or command the respect ? Probably not. Couldnt agree more. To use one of Ricey's favourite terms - it makes my p*ss boil! Its not tax evasion thats going in, its tax avoidance or minimising tax by legal means. If HMV were savvy enough, like Amazon and countless others, they'd have set up a supply chain abroad and used it to ship in CD/DVDs cheaper. Its their own fault for not being clever enough to use the system to their advantage. Really its the law makers that should have sorted it out properly in the first place to stop it, but then you might also stop some very important imports to the country. I dont know the ins and outs of it all but you cant blame companies for minimising their tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Then we moved on to CD's, at first it was very expensive if not impossible to copy a CD but it's pretty easy and cheap now. However I'm in no way convinced that piracy has had that much of an effect on music sales, for me it just boils down to the fact that music these days is just so bland, uninspiring and without any soul or depth. It's more about image than talent and punters in their 20's and 30's , the great record collectors of the past, just aren't buying albums these days. I stopped buying records in the early 90's, there was nothing about to excite me. Ever since I got my first PC with a CD drive back in the early 90`s I moved onto .mp3`s for my music collection. Every CD i used to buy id rip straight onto my hard drive and play that through my hifi. I remember paying £600 for a twin speed CD writer when they first came out so I could burn my own compilations to play in my car. That didnt stop me from buying CD`s and I still bought no end. I remember even back then the UK prices for CD`s werent as cheap as abroad, so it was very often cheaper for me to buy CD`s or DVD`s from America & Australia and have them shipped over to the UK! However, I personally havent got any new music in years. I cant remember the last album I bought. Nothing out there these days seems to excite me. I still buy the odd CD, but its usually a remaster of an old artist or something like that. I dont know how music sales compare to old days, but im guessing that whilst us older collectors dont like the new music, the kids of today must be buying it via itunes or whereever. Certainly stuff like x factor & pop idol etc.. seem to generate a lot of interest & money even if the artists are usually a bit generic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brumjohn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Blockbuster now aswell!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Blockbuster now aswell!!! Better nip down there quick and hire a load of dvds out then in case they dont bother asking for them back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Pretty much anyone that deals mostly in disc based media is up against it now, once super fast broadband rolls out everywhere there will be no need to keep media on discs, absolutely no point at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Blockbuster now aswell!!! I was wondering not long ago how long before that would happen with the likes of Netflix et al being so aggressive now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brumjohn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Men and women in high places make laws. Then companies that adhere to those laws get pilloried. Not saying it's right or wrong but when the people who make the laws say companies are wrong or immoral for sticking to the law. It pees me off. YOU MADE THE BLOODY LAW....... admit it you F*** up......... The fact is, the people in high places who say Ya or Na to laws we have,ain't clever enough. Could they earn that salary in "the real world" or command the respect ? Probably not. Couldnt agree more. To use one of Ricey's favourite terms - it makes my p*ss boil! Its not tax evasion thats going in, its tax avoidance or minimising tax by legal means. If HMV were savvy enough, like Amazon and countless others, they'd have set up a supply chain abroad and used it to ship in CD/DVDs cheaper. Its their own fault for not being clever enough to use the system to their advantage. Really its the law makers that should have sorted it out properly in the first place to stop it, but then you might also stop some very important imports to the country. I dont know the ins and outs of it all but you cant blame companies for minimising their tax. agreed, viz goldman Sachs proposed delaying of payment of bonuses to minimise tax liability to their staff. mervyn king has got the right approach, whilst not evasion, he let them know he thought it was immoral and they backtracked. Unfortunately, the tax statute is that complicated, the gamekeepers (tax collectors) turn poachers when they go to work for the big accountants and have a better understanding of the loopholes than the civil servants they leave behind. Problem is it remains easier to collect from hardworking Joe employee than the multinationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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