Trekking to the Ring' - questions!

[Tackleberry]

Hello,

 

Just a general query really. I have a stag do to arrange and i've settled on including the nurburgring in the events of the day. I have always fancied this myself and would be really keen to bring my fairlady along with me! As i'm trying to budget/price everything up can anyone tell me roughly the costs involved in taking my own car across ie fuel cost/ insurance/ferry/train etc..

 

Been having a look around at the rental companies that the nurburg website lay on and i've found one with a 350z! This might be a better option to save money however, i do fancy having a blast on the autobahn and properly seeing what kind of post 70mph performance my car has!

 

Stay in Aberdeen so google tells me its 1043 miles!

[Dave-350]

Fuel cost, insurance, ferry....

 

Have you thought about what the cost would be if you broke down on the ring, or crashed, or even spilt oil on the ring? Mega bucks!!! You need to make sure you know exactly what your insurance covers!

Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave-350

[RobPhoboS]

Have you thought about what the cost would be if you broke down on the ring, or crashed, or even spilt oil on the ring? Mega bucks!!!

 

That's exactly what I wouldn't think about, or you'd never go

[dErZ]

They havent released the 2013 opening times yet. So bare that in mind before booking. Dont go on a german bank holiday as its uber busy.

 

You are looknig at €97 for 4 laps of the ring.

 

When i went i took the tunnel as 30mins is super quick and that was £90 then 4 hrs driving through france and belguim. I was in an derv so fuel was cheap.

 

I want to go in the Z this year so will advise the fuel costs after

[Tackleberry]

Yeah heard horror stories of folks crashing on the ring forcing closure! Not cool, but then thats why i'm asking opinions of cost/experience! Don't want to make a costly mistake! I know my current insurance doesn't extend to race tracks. I have a while to plan/adjust policies though.

[ZMANALEX]

Considering that this is a stag and If this is your first time on the ring then fly over and rent unless you have a fortnight to spare and loadsa wonga.

 

Next time take time out and plan well and enjoy.

 

A quick search will reveal loads of guidance on this trip.

 

Alex.

[SteveM]

They havent released the 2013 opening times yet. So bare that in mind before booking. Dont go on a german bank holiday as its uber busy.

 

and be warned to look out for events that are happening around any dates you are looking at going... we were out in the Z in that area last year (Cochem and the Mozel valley) and decided to look in and see about going round the ring.... websites said it was open.... called up and they said it was open... drove up there and it was closed due to a rock festival they had there the weekend before... place looked like a bomb had gone off with rubbish and tents all over the place

 

am driving the Z out to germany again this year but heading further south... Baden Baden and then through the black forest into Switzerland and Zurich

 

things like fuel costs will depend on if you stick to motorways or go backroads, last year we went france belgium (the ardene area... great roads!) Luxembourg (cheap fuel!) then into germany and then north to the Mozel valley then back via Gent... i guess we did about 1000 miles which worked out at about £250 in fuel.

 

the eurotunnel is about £100 return and is probably th best and easiest way to go.. been doing ferrys for years before and it seems to take forever compared.

 

make sure your normal car policy covers you for europe and if you dont already have it get break down cover to cover the same. as for costs on the ring.... i guess they could range from 26 euro for 1 lap to 20,000 euro plus for 1 bad lap ending up in a barrier with a closed track! i have heard horror stories of bikers still laying on the floor and being given tickets for the damage their bike has caused!

 

if your going to do a few laps dont try and be a hero... take it easy and enjoy it but factor in a tank of fuel and make sure you have a good set of brake pads and tyres in place before you start or you may end up having to factor in the cost of replacing them in germany (depending on how many laps you do!)

 

i do plan to do it at some point although i hear they are making it harder and harder to do the tourist days???

[rayhoop]

Yeah heard horror stories of folks crashing on the ring forcing closure! Not cool, but then thats why i'm asking opinions of cost/experience! Don't want to make a costly mistake! I know my current insurance doesn't extend to race tracks. I have a while to plan/adjust policies though.

 

I crashed on the Ring in August 2011. I wrote off a '98 Golf VR6 at the 3km mark just after Hatzenbach (I think). It was my 4th Ring Lap (3rd lap of that trip). Braked too little too late - I did not realise my approach speed was far quicker than previous laps. Tried to get round but driver error/lack of skill resulted in a spin. Hit armco at approx 50-60mph? Front pax side corner hit first, then swung for the rear pax side to crunch... then got thrown to the other side of the track and came to a stop front first in the armco. I have it on video (during crash, and immediately after commentary from a mate) - I might put it up on youtube if I feel brave/stupid one day.

 

Cost:

Bearing in mind I owned the car for approx only 18 months...

 

Ferry = £90

Fuel = approx £90 (would have been more if I made it back!)

Accomodation = rented a room with a family @ 20 Euro per night (incl breakfast!). 4 nights stay = 80 euros.

 

Car = £1500 (not including fixing all the usual issues/weak points on the VR6)

Suspension = £600 coilovers + £120 poly bushes

New tyres = £200

Major service just before the trip + £90 for yellow stuff front pads

ADAC cover = £80 (saved me 240 euro towing cost when I crashed on the ring - if the car was not a write off, they would have also transported it back to the UK for me. ADAC would have also covered our transport back home, but we arranged lifts with mates)

 

Property Damage/Marshall Time @ Ring just under £2000...

 

Sold the crashed car to a mate (NigeP on Northloop) for £300 so he could take the 2 week old coilovers and what ever else he fancied. He offered to get the car transported back to my place in the UK so I could break it myself, but I dont have the time to do so.

 

I'll leave you to add up how much it cost... I dont want to!

 

Thankfully no other cars/bikes were involved, and no one died.

 

I did have 3 passengers in the car. My brother in the front seat had a cracked rib, mate in the back with mild concussion, another with bruising on his arm from the seat belt + a bump on his head where he headbutted my other mate (to give him concussion).

 

Thankfully all walked away and had a subdued laugh about it afterwards - even though I felt like throwing up/kicking myself in the face for being such an idiot. And yes... they do all still talk to me!

 

 

Considering that this is a stag and If this is your first time on the ring then fly over and rent unless you have a fortnight to spare and loadsa wonga.

 

Next time take time out and plan well and enjoy.

 

A quick search will reveal loads of guidance on this trip.

 

Alex.

 

Yup - lots of info available on line.

 

I would recommend renting a car from one of the firms to drive.

 

a) you dont have to prep your car for the abuse, or repair after wearing tyres/clutch etc.

you dont have to risk crashing your car

c) rental usually includes x number of laps + fuel in the package

d) rental car will have german insurance, which covers you against claims from others on the track i.e. imagine if you were at fault for killing another driver/biker? UK insurance does not cover the Ring... they might pay out, but they will probably follow it up with you and reclaim their losses as you breached the terms of your insurance.

e) paying 2500euros in insurance excess to the rental firm (if you crash) is still probably less than your personal loss if you crash your own car!

 

Ring property damage has to be paid for regardless whether you use a rental or not.

 

 

One bit of good did come out of the crash!

 

I bought a 350Z to replace the VR6!

Edited January 9, 2013 by rayhoop

[rayhoop]

Actually I remember seeing a UK 350Z drive past whilst we were on the side of the track waiting to be towed away.

 

Anyone from here?

 

 

 

Also - the day before I had my crash, a British guy in a E36 M3 Evo had an 'incident'. He did not crash, but he did loose his sump nut on the track, dumping the full contents of his sump around a corner and up a straight... He safely pulled up on the side of the track as soon as his oil buzzer etc came on...

 

However 4 bikers an 3 cars behind him were not so lucky. I cannot say what injuries etc occured. As far as I'm aware no one died, but people visited hospital and vehicles were damaged.

 

The British guy with the M3 looked very very very very worried. He didnt hit anyone, no one hit him, but the marshalls knew the oil came from his vehicle and the guy was probably facing a string of german insurance claims against him/his policy.

Edited January 9, 2013 by rayhoop

[Ekona]

Could've been much worse, glad you're okay.

 

 

The biggest worry isn't the cost of the repairs to the Ring if something goes wrong, more or less you can mitigate that with your own driving. It's when the unexpected mechanical breakdown happens and you punt a motorcyclist off and cripple him for life in your own car. Then you're looking at a bill in the hundreds of thousands for his medical care possibly for the rest of his life. That's the big worry, and that's why if I was doing a TF day I'd suck the cost up and rent something from RSR. Drive there, hire car, drive home. Safest and best way to do it outside of a proper trackday, I reckon.

[dErZ]

Wow, thanks for sharing, a very informative post. Glad you and everyone else was ok'ish.

[Tackleberry]

Thanks for that, lot of comprehensive answers

 

Renting seems to be the best option. As i say the website i was looking at does hire a 350z so all may not be lost, with the added benefit of hiring a wee scooter out for the stag at the same time (should bring him back to the days of his youth )

 

Glad nobody was hurt in that crash, i remember reading something similar on the golfgti forums back when i used to own one. Didn't post there did you?

[StevoD]

If you aint been before its Epic, heres a little vid i shot with my mates last year

 

http://vimeo.com/43185770

[wizard]

If I were you, I'd budget about £1K per trip return (based on 8 laps) and to stay the weekend. And just ensure you have some extra readies if the worst were to happen.

 

This can ofcourse be split in two if you have a generous passenger.

Edited January 9, 2013 by wizard

[BulletMagnet]

I'm glad my fiancé lives about an hour away from The Ring

If you take your own car, my advice would be

 

Fit decent tyres

Run 18"s

Fit uprated ARB's

Upgrade brake discs and pads or at least make sure they are in good working order with bedded in new pads

Drive within your limits and don't chase any other drivers or lap times, especially if its your first time.

On your very first lap take it easy and treat it as a sighting lap, trying to remember roughly where all 147 corners are is tricky

 

Just relax and enjoy

[Ekona]

I'm glad my fiancé

I had no idea you were gay.

 

[Shinjuku]

 

 

The biggest worry .... when the unexpected mechanical breakdown happens and you punt a motorcyclist off and cripple him for life in your own car. Then you're looking at a bill in the hundreds of thousands for his medical care possibly for the rest of his life. That's the big worry, and that's why if I was doing a TF day I'd suck the cost up and rent something from RSR. .

 

If breakage of a component could not have been anticipated and there was no driver error such a liability would be unlikely id say. Not a good reason to spend €€€ on a rental car rather than using your own imho.

 

Sent using Tapatalk.

 

 

[Ekona]

Yeah, good luck with that in the German courts. If you're doing big speed and something happens in the Fatherland, it's automatically your fault anyway. Maybe the mechanical issue alone isn't a good reason to rent, but driving uninsured on the Ring certainly is.

 

Well, not completely uninsured, but you know what I mean.

[ianphampton]

So many negative posts on this thread - wow! What a shame!

 

I went in October 2012 and loved it. The whole object of owning a car like a 350Z is to DRIVE IT - of course you can rent a GT 86 there - or even a Suzuki Swift as they're cheaper - but I come back to my start point - the whole object of owning a car like a 350Z is to DRIVE IT

 

Of course - it needs to be properly maintained, if you're driving a car at over 100mph in anything other than good condition, then you're an idiot

 

Of course - you need to drive within your limits and the limits of the road and conditions. Rayhoop admits it was driver error which made him crash - As Clint Eastwood said on Dirty Harry - "Man's got to know his limitations" and Yes, you want to push it a bit but there's no way I'd push it to the extent where you spin off, writing off £x,000 of car and not being able to get home and all the rest of the grief is. . . .well, as point 1 above - '. . . .then you're an idiot'

 

Drive fast, but within your limits and it's great fun.

 

Costs - I prefer to sleep on the ferry so you start fresh at 7:30 on the continent - so went Hull - Rotterdam, Ferry price including cabin was £121.50 plus food etc about £30

Hotel about 10km from the ring was €117 for 3 nights - plus food so around another £40 on top

Came back through the tunnel £75

Fuel - depends on how you drive, I did about 600 miles, but got 30mpg overall even in the Zed as you're cruising at speed and it's the acceleration / deceleration which eats the fuel

 

I'd recommend it to anyone, and I'd only want to drive the ring in my own Zed, not interested in doing it in a Suzuki Swift, I'm afraid.

 

I'd also suggest you drive the ring EARLY mornings because there's a lot of 'Richard Craniums' out there and 3 of my "4 laps for €95" I had to slow for yellow flags when said D_ck H_eads spun off and crashed, so you need to drive it with as light traffic as you can manage to avoid them.

 

And after that - enjoy it!

 

( And, by the way, after 4 laps driven with vigour, my Zed felt more alert than she'd been for ages. They say you need to blow the cobwebs out of her from time to time and that worked for me - (or maybe the learning ECU adapted to a new driving style?) Anyway - she felt fantastic for at least 1000 miles after I got back)

 

Edited to include insurance - you MUST check your insurance covers you in Europe, but after that, The Ring is just a German Toll road and if you're covered in Germany, you're covered on The Ring. UNLESS you're 'racing' and that means - if you have a stopwatch on, you're racing - so your insurance is invalid. (Well, that's what i) The Ring told me and ii) I checked with Admiral before I went)

Edited January 9, 2013 by ianphampton

[StevoD]

Erm got to disagree 90% of insurance companys do not cover you on the nurburgring its in the small print and when i was with admiral it even said on policy it wasnt covered, so check you small print

[Shinjuku]

Yeah, good luck with that in the German courts. If you're doing big speed and something happens in the Fatherland, it's automatically your fault anyway. Maybe the mechanical issue alone isn't a good reason to rent, but driving uninsured on the Ring certainly is.

 

Well, not completely uninsured, but you know what I mean.

 

Creates a burden of proof on the speeding driver but does not make it irrefutably his/her fault is my understanding. Plus, although its technically a public road its also an arena where both parties expect and will most likely be doing high speeds, which I'm sure would be relevant in any court's analysis.

 

Granted driving on any track without insurance comes with risks but getting all tied up about facing a colossal personal damages bill in the scenario you described does not stack up for me.

 

Drive dangerously or take a vehicle out which it should have been apparent wasn't up to the job and id agree with you.

 

Sent using Tapatalk.

 

 

[DoogyRev]

You have to get additional insurance (let your insurance company know) not only to drive in Europe, but especially to drive the ring. I would agree with everything that has been said. In addition I would certainly get some track experience before you go if you have never been on one before.

[GT4 Zed]

Mate(OP)there are pros and cons to everything. Most of the advice is valid but on balance you would have a good trip and fun. Do your research a decide how you want to play it. My recommendation would be to drive there in your zed and take out a rental car from Rent 4 Ring or RSR. I wouldn't trust much else. Do half a day and you can get some tuition. It's cheap relatively. You can pay to reduce the excess considerably. Dale @ R4R is English is very helpful and would help out. You can then do some laps with the zed if you feel comfortable and it's in order mechanically or go back when you are ready and have caught the bug. I have done the ring now since 2007 and probably racked about ~400-500 laps( not counting) and I have had a few moments but no crashes. Overall it's the best fun I've had in any driving scenario and will recommend it to anyone at least once in their life.

Have fun:)

 

[rayhoop]

Glad nobody was hurt in that crash, i remember reading something similar on the golfgti forums back when i used to own one. Didn't post there did you?

 

Yup - I'm on clubGti. Thankfully no one was seriously hurt and we all enjoyed the trip in general.

 

Drive within your limits and don't chase any other drivers or lap times, especially if its your first time.

On your very first lap take it easy and treat it as a sighting lap, trying to remember roughly where all 147 corners are is tricky

Just relax and enjoy

 

Exactly what he said!

To be honest, I went out there with that mind set. I did 2 calm laps on that trip. The 3 and final lap just went wrong - I was in the wrong mindset when I set off.

1st two laps - I sat and verbally repeated - "you are not racing, take it easy". The 3rd lap I was in a bit of a rush to get on during a quiet period and I didnt take the time out to talk/think myself calm.

 

 

 

So many negative posts on this thread - wow! What a shame!

 

I'd also suggest you drive the ring EARLY mornings because there's a lot of 'Richard Craniums' out there and 3 of my "4 laps for €95" I had to slow for yellow flags when said D_ck H_eads spun off and crashed

 

The Ring is just a German Toll road and if you're covered in Germany, you're covered on The Ring. UNLESS you're 'racing' and that means - if you have a stopwatch on, you're racing - so your insurance is invalid. (Well, that's what i) The Ring told me and ii) I checked with Admiral before I went)

 

Agree - yes, lots of negative comments. It is called reminding the guy that it is dangerous and to be prepared.

To balance it out - even though it is risky, and I had an 'off', we still thoroughly enjoyed the trip! We had plenty of laughs off the track, met lots of like minded petrol heads, dined at good restaurants, spent quality time with mates, and experienced some epic passenger laps!

 

My advice is. If this is the 1st time driving your Zed (or any car) on a track, do not 'push it' on the Ring. There is virtually zero margin for error out there. Most corners do not have any run off ground. If you lose it, you will probably hit something.

Drive your car so it is fun - yes, but not like you would on a track day where you are on an airfield or a track with plenty of run off ground.

 

I would rephrase that as "go early in the morning, as there is less traffic". A bit harsh to use a broad brush and label people with less driving experience as Richard Craniums.

 

Admiral explicitly state that driving on the Nordschleife is NOT covered by the policy, the road is named as excluded. Most insurance companies have added that to the policies. The insurance @ the Ring conversation has been covered many many times. Even finding separate insurance is very difficult (I tried).

 

Mate(OP)there are pros and cons to everything. Most of the advice is valid but on balance you would have a good trip and fun. Do your research a decide how you want to play it. My recommendation would be to drive there in your zed and take out a rental car from Rent 4 Ring or RSR. I wouldn't trust much else. Do half a day and you can get some tuition. It's cheap relatively. You can pay to reduce the excess considerably. Dale @ R4R is English is very helpful and would help out. You can then do some laps with the zed if you feel comfortable and it's in order mechanically or go back when you are ready and have caught the bug. I have done the ring now since 2007 and probably racked about ~400-500 laps( not counting) and I have had a few moments but no crashes. Overall it's the best fun I've had in any driving scenario and will recommend it to anyone at least once in their life.

Have fun:)

 

Well said!

[wizard]

Erm got to disagree 90% of insurance companys do not cover you on the nurburgring its in the small print and when i was with admiral it even said on policy it wasnt covered, so check you small print

 

Legally your insurance company has to cover you a minimum of third party on the 'ring. It is a grey area though however.