pdg32 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Hi there, I've just read the 'safe driving' thread, and did a search about the tragic incident involving a driver by the name of Ian that happened a year ago. It just makes me wonder about wet handling, would anyone be able to advise or give any tips for driving the zed in the wet? Obviously the adage 'drive to the conditions' comes into play and i'm assuming that the TCS will help things somewhat, but are there any definite 'dos' and 'don'ts' I haven't driven RWD before, so would like some insight prior to purchasing in 6-9 months time. A friend of mine seems to think that a lot of crashes on bends are caused by FWD cars understeering, and that RWD is actually safer in some respects (though he didn't explain why) Thanks for your time guys. pdg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I currently am on the legal limit with my rear tyres and still find driving in the wet ok, as you have said drive to the conditions, keep enough space so that if someone else is stupid it won't mean you have to brake sharply or make a sudden change of direction. RWD is fine once you get used to it just avoid giving it the beans when you are mid turn unless you actually want to go sideways that is :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bockaaarck Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 SMD's pretty well hit the spot, they key is smooth progressive driving, none of this ON / OFF switch stabbing of the loud pedal in the wet. A subtle touch along with some anticipation (both of which SMD is an expert at :wink: ) should see you pretty alright. Avoiding the mid turn or roundabout foot plant should prevent anything too nasty catching you out. In truth a bit of practice along with a good dose of common sense will help you get used to the foibles of RWD in the wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z350convert Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 If you are really not confident then why not have a morning at a skip pan. They will teach you how to cope with a skid and how to avoid it in the first place. The cause is excessive speed, steering or braking for the conditions. Trouble is the skid pans (go to one with the traditional greasy surface) tend to deal with low speed skids rather than the more scary ones you could get with a z, but the causes and the correction technique are the same. Lots of us have got int bad habits driving front wheel drive which is much more forgiving as the front wheels are pulling in the direction of travel. With the rear wheels pushing from the back not only have you got the rear tyres struggling to grip laterally on a corner but the grip is compromised by the need to transmit the power as well. Result, rear end break away. Quite fun but can be a bit scary when you end up getting a 360 degree view of the road you have just come down. Just treat the surface with respect and give yourself time to get used to a powerful rear drive car like a z. Motorcyclists make the best drivers in the wet as they have to feel the surface and all the features like paint, drain covers and diesel that can drop them on their behinds. Also, check out YouTube on skid control Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 SMD's pretty well hit the spot, they key is smooth progressive driving, none of this ON / OFF switch stabbing of the loud pedal in the wet. A subtle touch along with some anticipation (both of which SMD is an expert at :wink: ) should see you pretty alright. Avoiding the mid turn or roundabout foot plant should prevent anything too nasty catching you out. In truth a bit of practice along with a good dose of common sense will help you get used to the foibles of RWD in the wet. Oh you velvet tongued devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyheinz Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) I went from a 1.4l Fiat Bravo to the Zed and bought it in November, last year when the roads were generally very wet and slippery. As the guys have said before just don't floor it and you'll be fine. I made the mistake of going on to a dual carriage way and just slammed the accelerator down….the back end kicked out and I very nearly crashed in to the barrier. Had there been a car in the other lane I would have definitely taken it out. In a way I'm glad it happened because it's taught me to be careful when driving in the wet and *touch wood* it's never happened again. I did notice that when I changed my tyres (they were mixed when I bought it), I had much better grip. Save nailing it for nice dry days! Edited December 23, 2012 by Bobbyheinz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 +1 on Dave As long as you remember not to stamp on the loud pedal going in or mid corner you will be fine, a smooth power delivery is key. You will have to change your driving style to an extent. Just take it easy to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 A friend of mine seems to think that a lot of crashes on bends are caused by FWD cars understeering, and that RWD is actually safer in some respects (though he didn't explain why) pdg It's safer in the respect that with an FWD you tend to go through the hedge head first but with an RWD you go through it backwards . Pete 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 thanks for the replies so far guys. so does this mean that with FWD you can actually nail it mid-corner / out of roundabouts more safely? does the TCS not sort any such 'moments' out, or is it easily overwhelmed in the wet? i'll certainly bear these things in mind when it comes to getting mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 If you nail the throttle mid-corner in FWD, you'll understeer into a ditch. Do it in RWD and you'll oversteer into a ditch. Same result, different end first :wink: Drive smooth, brake gently and early, keep a relaxed grip on the wheel and only accelerate when pointing straight. That'll work for any car, any condition to keep you on the black stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADPHONES Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 When I first got my zed, the first place the rear stepped out was exiting a round about where the exit was an incline and in the rain. It's surprising how little poke it needs on this exit to lose the rear if the zed is not completely straight before zooming off. Seven years later I still managed to unsettle the rear a little on this exit despite using it every day on my commute. As others have said, caution on accelerating when the steering wheel ain't straight in the wet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC350Z Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Dont rely on the TCS as it lets a bit of slip then cuts the power when you need it smooth driving is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 so does this mean that with FWD you can actually nail it mid-corner / out of roundabouts more safely? I would say yes. If you get terminal understeer then its really just a matter of lifting off. With oversteer the temptation is to keep your foot down and steer into it. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 If you nail the throttle mid-corner in FWD, you'll understeer into a ditch. Do it in RWD and you'll oversteer into a ditch. Same result, different end first :wink: Drive smooth, brake gently and early, keep a relaxed grip on the wheel and only accelerate when pointing straight. That'll work for any car, any condition to keep you on the black stuff. This sounds like very sensible advice. What is the threshold like though in terms of corner entry / mid-corner speeds? Is there grip going in on constant throttle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 so does this mean that with FWD you can actually nail it mid-corner / out of roundabouts more safely? I would say yes. If you get terminal understeer then its really just a matter of lifting off. With oversteer the temptation is to keep your foot down and steer into it. Pete Would I then be....drifting perchance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC350Z Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 so does this mean that with FWD you can actually nail it mid-corner / out of roundabouts more safely? I would say yes. If you get terminal understeer then its really just a matter of lifting off. With oversteer the temptation is to keep your foot down and steer into it. Pete Would I then be....drifting perchance? If you catch it yes drifting if you dont catch it then you will be crashing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 If you catch it yes drifting if you dont catch it then you will be crashing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 This sounds like very sensible advice. What is the threshold like though in terms of corner entry / mid-corner speeds? Is there grip going in on constant throttle? Very much tyre dependant. On something like the OEM RE040 you'll be struggling for grip, but with the Pilot Supersports you'll have more grip than you would expect. Again, this is condition dependant, but that's pretty much the crux of it. Keeping the car balanced on high-speed entry fast corners is critical, and you should be aiming for a later apex than normal to maximise grip and exit speed. Maybe more important for track driving, but the application is identical to good road driving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdean Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 just progressive throttle and steering control. just drive steady. easy as a,b c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 As others have mentioned, always put the best tyres on your car - as to specifically which ones, that will always depend on how you drive and what you like from a tyre. But there are always several top premium ones to go for And if you really want the best from your car, definitely do a few driver training days for handling etc It's not very expensive and technically should last a life time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I also think there is a tendency, if coming from a turbo car, to boot the loud peddle for that extra feel of grunt in the back but don't be fooled about the ZEDs speed because as most have indicated above providing you feed in the power progressively you then only have to look in the mirror to see just how rapidly other traffic falls behind. The torque is deceptive, but planting the loud peddle to the floor (other than in a straight line maybe) and you will be catching the back end - whether the TC is on or off. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z350convert Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 A power drift is quite different from a tail slide. Have a look at old clips of Fangio with all 4 wheels sliding. So much tripe on YouTube about "drifting' which in most cases it ain't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Just be careful is the best advice I can give Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 smooth is the key as said above and give yourself space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 This sounds like very sensible advice. What is the threshold like though in terms of corner entry / mid-corner speeds? Is there grip going in on constant throttle? Very much tyre dependant. On something like the OEM RE040 you'll be struggling for grip, but with the Pilot Supersports you'll have more grip than you would expect. Again, this is condition dependant, but that's pretty much the crux of it. Keeping the car balanced on high-speed entry fast corners is critical, and you should be aiming for a later apex than normal to maximise grip and exit speed. Maybe more important for track driving, but the application is identical to good road driving. I think I'm with you - so constant throttle mid-corner, then progressive throttle on exit? even more so in the wet? not quite sure re: the track driving protocol / jargon as never done a track day, by balanced you mean steady throttle and smooth steering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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